Card Industry going away? (Fox Report)

[abncollectsautos]

I dont know if any of this matters that much. IMO as long as there are people willing to purchase sports cards then there will be companies willing to produce sports cards.

Isnt the sports card industry a multi-million dollar industry?

I think the reason there are fewer card shops is mainly beause of the internet. Americans are getting lazier and its much easier to purchase the card you want online then go bust wax or pay outrageous prices at card shops.

 

[aaron41984]

IMO Ebay was the downfall for "brick & mortar" card shop's...Basically Ebay took away the dealer's/shop owner's control over the hobby, they can no longer dictate what an item sells for (as any individual can easily click on thier PC & laugh at the shop owner as they purchase & save $20 on a card which the dealer was trying to sell them for "Beckett Value" :? Shop owner's just couldn't compete with the online site's as they had to cover thier "brick & mortar" expense's while at the same time make enough of a profit to stay afloat (& many could not do so & they folded)...Why keep paying utilities & rent when you could go onto Ebay (or an online site) for yourself & reach WAYYYY more customer's than if you ran a shop? IMO, Ebay killed the hobby/card shop & it seems Ebay's next "kill" will be the Beckett Publication's/Price Guide's! Just my opinion guy's!

I agree 100% Houston. I said the exact same thing when my fav LCS went down in 2001.

The only thing really keeping Beckett going right now is the Grading Service I would think.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

1. It's Fox News. Fox News is worthless.

Senselessly idiotic attempt to derail the thread for no other reason than your own pea-brained, mindless political vomit.

Uhm, I posted a number of comments against this story, not derailing it.

As someone who spent $275 to defend YOUR position, is it really necessary to insult me for my thoughts and beliefs? Is it necessary to lash out with personal attacks?

The fact is, it's just another doom and gloom story when companies are consistently selling out of product -- EVERYTHING THAT PANINI AND TOPPS AND RAZOR PRINT IS SOLD OUT! I suspect that most, if not all, of what UD prints is SOLD OUT from the companies.

Don't forget, MLB put the restriction on UD and Topps as to only having X amount of sets - and instead of being 4 big manufacturers, there were only 2 as recently as 2 years ago. Of course the market is going to go down -- but there are less products with more demand.

Despite the economic recession, this hobby is doing just fine. And will continue to do just fine.

When a dealer can say something as ludicrious as "in 20 years, no one will know what a baseball card is", one can tell he's one of the dealers that hates technology, hates eBay, and hates the fact that he can't make a living with a brick and mortar store any longer. Sorry. Mom & Pop hardware and drug stores went out of business too, because of Wal-Mart. Look at eBay as the hobby shop Wal-Mart. It's good and bad for the consumer.

This hobby would be completely dead without the Internet. If I pull a top card that I have no desire to own and have nowhere to sell it, I'll lose interest. If I can't get the cards I want, I'll lose interest.

Enter the interwebs/eBay - the way to buy and sell cards. Essentially, it's the world's largest, 24 hour, card show.

The hobby ain't going anywhere, and it's poorly researched, poorly interviewed, sensationalistic journalism - something fox news is known for.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

I don't think its fair to say the industry is strong by any means. Dropping 80% in sales over less than 20 years is definitely NOT a good sign.

Which cards over the last 20 years will anyone want to collect 20 years from now? I have the feeling that people 20 years from now will only be interested in a small number of today's cards, and that most of today's 'experts' predicting future value will be completely wrong as they always have been because they're interested in lining their own pockets.

 

[nborton]

I think people are confusing two different things.

1. Overall as an industry I don't think anyone could claim that cards are more popular now than they were in the early to mid 90s. They just aren't. The strike might have had a part in it, but it's not like the other sports are doing well either.

2. Values of individual cards today are higher than the 90s, but that has nothing to do with the overall popularity of cards. It just means there are fewer cards printed. If there were autographed RC numbered to 50 or less in the early 90s the cards would have been through the roof expensive. Drastically more than they even are today.

As a whole I think it's fine that the industry isn't as popular as it once was. There is a good chance this could be a decade in time where cards are very limited and if there ever is a boom again in collecting this decade will be like looking for pre-war cards. There just won't be that many.

 

[sportscardtheory]

Fox News is the least biased of all TV news networks. They are less to the right than the others are to the left.

I hope for your sake you are kidding.

 

[cgilmo]

[quote="Jeff N.":36d7cifh]1. It's Fox News. Fox News is worthless.

Senselessly idiotic attempt to derail the thread for no other reason than your own pea-brained, mindless political vomit.

Uhm, I posted a number of comments against this story, not derailing it.

As someone who spent $275 to defend YOUR position, is it really necessary to insult me for my thoughts and beliefs? Is it necessary to lash out with personal attacks?

[/quote:36d7cifh]


wait wait jeff

I thought you bought those for your own personal enjoyment?

 

[Bob Loblaw]

[quote="Jeff N.":1ni0ssqx]1. It's Fox News. Fox News is worthless.

Senselessly idiotic attempt to derail the thread for no other reason than your own pea-brained, mindless political vomit.

Uhm, I posted a number of comments against this story, not derailing it.

As someone who spent $275 to defend YOUR position, is it really necessary to insult me for my thoughts and beliefs? Is it necessary to lash out with personal attacks?

wait wait jeff

I thought you bought those for your own personal enjoyment?[/quote:1ni0ssqx]


Nope. I did it solely to defend the honor of PWJ.



Seriously, though, it gets old -- make a point against an article, or a product, or a card, or a player, and people come back with personal attacks . . . or edit your message calling you a troll . . .

 

[cgilmo]

[quote="Jeff N.":2zhfo5qx]

[quote="Jeff N.":2zhfo5qx]1. It's Fox News. Fox News is worthless.

Senselessly idiotic attempt to derail the thread for no other reason than your own pea-brained, mindless political vomit.

Uhm, I posted a number of comments against this story, not derailing it.

As someone who spent $275 to defend YOUR position, is it really necessary to insult me for my thoughts and beliefs? Is it necessary to lash out with personal attacks?

wait wait jeff

I thought you bought those for your own personal enjoyment?[/quote:2zhfo5qx]


Nope. I did it solely to defend the honor of PWJ.



Seriously, though, it gets old -- make a point against an article, or a product, or a card, or a player, and people come back with personal attacks . . . or edit your message calling you a troll . . .[/quote:2zhfo5qx]

for the record, it wasn't me that edited you. I still don't know what you wrote. I have no doubt it was a troll attempt though, because thats kinda what you do.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

[quote="Jeff N.":2w06ng02]

[quote="Jeff N.":2w06ng02]1. It's Fox News. Fox News is worthless.

Senselessly idiotic attempt to derail the thread for no other reason than your own pea-brained, mindless political vomit.

Uhm, I posted a number of comments against this story, not derailing it.

As someone who spent $275 to defend YOUR position, is it really necessary to insult me for my thoughts and beliefs? Is it necessary to lash out with personal attacks?

wait wait jeff

I thought you bought those for your own personal enjoyment?

Nope. I did it solely to defend the honor of PWJ.



Seriously, though, it gets old -- make a point against an article, or a product, or a card, or a player, and people come back with personal attacks . . . or edit your message calling you a troll . . .[/quote:2w06ng02]

for the record, it wasn't me that edited you. I still don't know what you wrote. I have no doubt it was a troll attempt though, because thats kinda what you do.[/quote:2w06ng02]

The OP commented that he was going to lose money on his Razor buys, but showed what he bought.

Someone else commented that at least he bought good prospects.

I said something like, "It's a shame it's just not a good prod--ah, it's too easy. I won't go there".

 

[Mr.Whipple]

That may be one of the most poorly conceived and executed news stories I've ever seen.

And those shop owners are morons.

The shop owners are far from morons, They understand the market a lil bit better...Story was not poorly executed...Topps has MLB rights next year and Upper Deck does not, So UD has to airbrush all team logo's from uniforms...Like the one dealer said, "People dont want that"...Add MLB rights to DLP products and they would book and sell a lot better...I can see loads of team collectors not buying product over that and loads more other collectors...Exclusive player and league contracts only hurt the hobby...UD owns hockey..Panini owns BKB and now Topps owns MLB...

2008 DLP Prime Cuts was $160-180 per box at release. Now it routinely sells at $220-260 a box.

2008 Topps Sterling has trended down in price since release.

Hmm...it seems as though better product trumps MLB logos in some cases.

And the shop owner that said people won't know what cards are in 20 years, is a moron.

If Prime Cuts was MLB endorsed it would do a lot better..Plus the absence of Prime Cuts for a few years helped out a lot...Sterling comes out year after year pretty much has not changed and that doesnt draw buyers....Card companies are starting to get desperate to make something new for people to wanna buy product...Dead bug cards?...Cards with hair of dead people and animals?...Even game used is dead, I remember pulling a griffey jersey that booked 600 when i pulled it...Now Griffey jersey cards dont book 25 from the pack....

 

[Bob Loblaw]

That may be one of the most poorly conceived and executed news stories I've ever seen.

And those shop owners are morons.

The shop owners are far from morons, They understand the market a lil bit better...Story was not poorly executed...Topps has MLB rights next year and Upper Deck does not, So UD has to airbrush all team logo's from uniforms...Like the one dealer said, "People dont want that"...Add MLB rights to DLP products and they would book and sell a lot better...I can see loads of team collectors not buying product over that and loads more other collectors...Exclusive player and league contracts only hurt the hobby...UD owns hockey..Panini owns BKB and now Topps owns MLB...

2008 DLP Prime Cuts was $160-180 per box at release. Now it routinely sells at $220-260 a box.

2008 Topps Sterling has trended down in price since release.

Hmm...it seems as though better product trumps MLB logos in some cases.

And the shop owner that said people won't know what cards are in 20 years, is a moron.

If Prime Cuts was MLB endorsed it would do a lot better..Plus the absence of Prime Cuts for a few years helped out a lot...Sterling comes out year after year pretty much has not changed and that doesnt draw buyers....Card companies are starting to get desperate to make something new for people to wanna buy product...Dead bug cards?...Cards with hair of dead people and animals?...Even game used is dead, I remember pulling a griffey jersey that booked 600 when i pulled it...Now Griffey jersey cards dont book 25 from the pack....

Dis the dead bugs and hair, but people buy them. GU has been dead for years -- there's only so much one can put on a 2 1/2 by 3 1/2 piece of card board depicting a baseball player. Technology has somewhat reached it's pinnacle. I can't remember the last card I saw and said "that's a great idea!".

Does anyone get excited about Sweet Spot cards? Yes, they're beautiful, but if you've seen one, you've seen them all. Same goes for Legendary Cuts. Oh, more cut autos. Yay. I agree with your example of Topps Sterling as well. Innovation is necessary at this point in time - - and it's not coming. There's just so many ways to package chips of wood, swatches of cloth, ink stickers, and cardboard.

The only thing I haven't seen used to the point of excess is random GU product inserts. A product with a whole GU product per box (like Just Minors Mystery Jersey/bat product or the Fleer legacy with the auto caps), probably done by redemption, would be interesting. I remember back in the early 90s when Signature Memorabilia came out - I believe it was $10 for a pack of cards with a redemption for an auto'ed something (8x10, hat, jersey, etc). That was a great product - poor player selection, and no licensing, but a great concept. If it could be done with a reasonable price point, it'd be great if Topps or UD could do something like that.

However, just about everything else is old and stale. And I don't know what is going to change that around.

But, people will still buy. Some people are happy to pay $10 for a GU jersey card of Griffey... because it doesnt' cost $200 anymore.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Complex cards with GU, autos, hair, whatever isn't going to change the hobby. Just give me a fully licensed card produced when the guy was in the majors, show a decent picture, have some solid stats on a well-designed/interesting card. Something I can show to someone else who will appreciate and understand the card for what it is - a tribute to a baseball player during a specific time in his career. That's it. Simplicity works best and always has.

That may be one of the most poorly conceived and executed news stories I've ever seen.

And those shop owners are morons.

The shop owners are far from morons, They understand the market a lil bit better...Story was not poorly executed...Topps has MLB rights next year and Upper Deck does not, So UD has to airbrush all team logo's from uniforms...Like the one dealer said, "People dont want that"...Add MLB rights to DLP products and they would book and sell a lot better...I can see loads of team collectors not buying product over that and loads more other collectors...Exclusive player and league contracts only hurt the hobby...UD owns hockey..Panini owns BKB and now Topps owns MLB...

2008 DLP Prime Cuts was $160-180 per box at release. Now it routinely sells at $220-260 a box.

2008 Topps Sterling has trended down in price since release.

Hmm...it seems as though better product trumps MLB logos in some cases.

And the shop owner that said people won't know what cards are in 20 years, is a moron.

If Prime Cuts was MLB endorsed it would do a lot better..Plus the absence of Prime Cuts for a few years helped out a lot...Sterling comes out year after year pretty much has not changed and that doesnt draw buyers....Card companies are starting to get desperate to make something new for people to wanna buy product...Dead bug cards?...Cards with hair of dead people and animals?...Even game used is dead, I remember pulling a griffey jersey that booked 600 when i pulled it...Now Griffey jersey cards dont book 25 from the pack....

Dis the dead bugs and hair, but people buy them. GU has been dead for years -- there's only so much one can put on a 2 1/2 by 3 1/2 piece of card board depicting a baseball player. Technology has somewhat reached it's pinnacle. I can't remember the last card I saw and said "that's a great idea!".

Does anyone get excited about Sweet Spot cards? Yes, they're beautiful, but if you've seen one, you've seen them all. Same goes for Legendary Cuts. Oh, more cut autos. Yay. I agree with your example of Topps Sterling as well. Innovation is necessary at this point in time - - and it's not coming. There's just so many ways to package chips of wood, swatches of cloth, ink stickers, and cardboard.

The only thing I haven't seen used to the point of excess is random GU product inserts. A product with a whole GU product per box (like Just Minors Mystery Jersey/bat product or the Fleer legacy with the auto caps), probably done by redemption, would be interesting. I remember back in the early 90s when Signature Memorabilia came out - I believe it was $10 for a pack of cards with a redemption for an auto'ed something (8x10, hat, jersey, etc). That was a great product - poor player selection, and no licensing, but a great concept. If it could be done with a reasonable price point, it'd be great if Topps or UD could do something like that.

However, just about everything else is old and stale. And I don't know what is going to change that around.

But, people will still buy. Some people are happy to pay $10 for a GU jersey card of Griffey... because it doesnt' cost $200 anymore.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

And that's great for Topps' base line. Solid pics, nice conservative design, great stats on the back. But this isn't 1986 anymore. Topps has to have more than one product -- more than 10 products -- for the MLB and MLBPA licenses to be worthwhile. Further, they have numerous brands which have their followers -- A&G, Heritage, BowChrome, and many many more. They all need to be different.

Ironic that your name is "uniquebaseballcards" yet you want the same thing that Topps has been doing since the 50s. . . which is anything but unique.

Complex cards with GU, autos, hair, whatever isn't going to change the hobby. Just give me a fully licensed card produced when the guy was in the majors, show a decent picture, have some solid stats on a well-designed/interesting card. Something I can show to someone else who will appreciate and understand the card for what it is - a tribute to a baseball player during a specific time in his career. That's it. Simplicity works best and always has.

[quote="chashawk":2vlk4wxk]That may be one of the most poorly conceived and executed news stories I've ever seen.

And those shop owners are morons.

The shop owners are far from morons, They understand the market a lil bit better...Story was not poorly executed...Topps has MLB rights next year and Upper Deck does not, So UD has to airbrush all team logo's from uniforms...Like the one dealer said, "People dont want that"...Add MLB rights to DLP products and they would book and sell a lot better...I can see loads of team collectors not buying product over that and loads more other collectors...Exclusive player and league contracts only hurt the hobby...UD owns hockey..Panini owns BKB and now Topps owns MLB...

2008 DLP Prime Cuts was $160-180 per box at release. Now it routinely sells at $220-260 a box.

2008 Topps Sterling has trended down in price since release.

Hmm...it seems as though better product trumps MLB logos in some cases.

And the shop owner that said people won't know what cards are in 20 years, is a moron.

If Prime Cuts was MLB endorsed it would do a lot better..Plus the absence of Prime Cuts for a few years helped out a lot...Sterling comes out year after year pretty much has not changed and that doesnt draw buyers....Card companies are starting to get desperate to make something new for people to wanna buy product...Dead bug cards?...Cards with hair of dead people and animals?...Even game used is dead, I remember pulling a griffey jersey that booked 600 when i pulled it...Now Griffey jersey cards dont book 25 from the pack....

Dis the dead bugs and hair, but people buy them. GU has been dead for years -- there's only so much one can put on a 2 1/2 by 3 1/2 piece of card board depicting a baseball player. Technology has somewhat reached it's pinnacle. I can't remember the last card I saw and said "that's a great idea!".

Does anyone get excited about Sweet Spot cards? Yes, they're beautiful, but if you've seen one, you've seen them all. Same goes for Legendary Cuts. Oh, more cut autos. Yay. I agree with your example of Topps Sterling as well. Innovation is necessary at this point in time - - and it's not coming. There's just so many ways to package chips of wood, swatches of cloth, ink stickers, and cardboard.

The only thing I haven't seen used to the point of excess is random GU product inserts. A product with a whole GU product per box (like Just Minors Mystery Jersey/bat product or the Fleer legacy with the auto caps), probably done by redemption, would be interesting. I remember back in the early 90s when Signature Memorabilia came out - I believe it was $10 for a pack of cards with a redemption for an auto'ed something (8x10, hat, jersey, etc). That was a great product - poor player selection, and no licensing, but a great concept. If it could be done with a reasonable price point, it'd be great if Topps or UD could do something like that.

However, just about everything else is old and stale. And I don't know what is going to change that around.

But, people will still buy. Some people are happy to pay $10 for a GU jersey card of Griffey... because it doesnt' cost $200 anymore.

[/quote:2vlk4wxk]

 

[G $MONEY$]

[quote="Jeff N.":2keqma6z]1. It's Fox News. Fox News is worthless.

Senselessly idiotic attempt to derail the thread for no other reason than your own pea-brained, mindless political vomit.

Uhm, I posted a number of comments against this story, not derailing it.

As someone who spent $275 to defend YOUR position, is it really necessary to insult me for my thoughts and beliefs? Is it necessary to lash out with personal attacks?

The fact is, it's just another doom and gloom story when companies are consistently selling out of product -- EVERYTHING THAT PANINI AND TOPPS AND RAZOR PRINT IS SOLD OUT! I suspect that most, if not all, of what UD prints is SOLD OUT from the companies.

Don't forget, MLB put the restriction on UD and Topps as to only having X amount of sets - and instead of being 4 big manufacturers, there were only 2 as recently as 2 years ago. Of course the market is going to go down -- but there are less products with more demand.

Despite the economic recession, this hobby is doing just fine. And will continue to do just fine.

When a dealer can say something as ludicrious as "in 20 years, no one will know what a baseball card is", one can tell he's one of the dealers that hates technology, hates eBay, and hates the fact that he can't make a living with a brick and mortar store any longer. Sorry. Mom & Pop hardware and drug stores went out of business too, because of Wal-Mart. Look at eBay as the hobby shop Wal-Mart. It's good and bad for the consumer.

This hobby would be completely dead without the Internet. If I pull a top card that I have no desire to own and have nowhere to sell it, I'll lose interest. If I can't get the cards I want, I'll lose interest.

Enter the interwebs/eBay - the way to buy and sell cards. Essentially, it's the world's largest, 24 hour, card show.

The hobby ain't going anywhere, and it's poorly researched, poorly interviewed, sensationalistic journalism - something fox news is known for.[/quote:2keqma6z]


great post.

 

[andyduke86]

Fox News is the least biased of all TV news networks. They are less to the right than the others are to the left.

I hope for your sake you are kidding.

Not at all. It's not my fault if you are unable to detect bias in the major networks. That's the problem. People just assume that the typical liberal media is "moderate" when in fact they are greatly slanted towards the left. Just because Fox leans the other way doesn't mean they're incredibly biased relative to the other networks.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

You're simply saying here that 1) Topps is a slave to their licensing agreements that forces them to make many brands and 2) that their different brands need to be different. How do you support your first point? With regard to your second point, how are their brands not different to begin with?

If you think one issue is identical (not unique) to the next within a brand, I feel sorry for you. But perhaps you know of all the technologies and methods to make all cards unique?

And that's great for Topps' base line. Solid pics, nice conservative design, great stats on the back. But this isn't 1986 anymore. Topps has to have more than one product -- more than 10 products -- for the MLB and MLBPA licenses to be worthwhile. Further, they have numerous brands which have their followers -- A&G, Heritage, BowChrome, and many many more. They all need to be different.

Ironic that your name is "uniquebaseballcards" yet you want the same thing that Topps has been doing since the 50s. . . which is anything but unique.

 

[Crash Davis]

I will start fresh here as there is way too much banter to thumb through.

Is the trading card industry dead? No.

Is the trading card industry as we once knew it dead? Yes.

I recently found some old issues of Sports Collectors Digest which I purchased a few years ago, and depicted inside were grainy black-and-white photos of card conventions from the 1970s and early-1980s. Needless to say, things were different back then.

People published their home addresses in the hopes that somebody would fill their 1952 Topps set or their 1948 Bowman set.

Now, the noble idea of a card shop has come-and-gone, unfortunately, much like the rest of mainstream america. The mom-and-pops have been replaced by the Wal-Marts and the Targets of the world. Sad, but true. The same can be said for most card shops.

From somebody who used to manage one back in the late-1990s, there is nothing quite like the feel of a baseball card store. That's something that the internet can't replicate, no matter how much of a selection you may have.

The card industry, like the world itself, has changed.

 

[cgilmo]

I will start fresh here as there is way too much banter to thumb through.

Is the trading card industry dead? No.

Is the trading card industry as we once knew it dead? Yes.

I recently found some old issues of Sports Collectors Digest which I purchased a few years ago, and depicted inside were grainy black-and-white photos of card conventions from the 1970s and early-1980s. Needless to say, things were different back then.

People published their home addresses in the hopes that somebody would fill their 1952 Topps set or their 1948 Bowman set.

Now, the noble idea of a card shop has come-and-gone, unfortunately, much like the rest of mainstream america. The mom-and-pops have been replaced by the Wal-Marts and the Targets of the world. Sad, but true. The same can be said for most card shops.

From somebody who used to manage one back in the late-1990s, there is nothing quite like the feel of a baseball card store. That's something that the internet can't replicate, no matter how much of a selection you may have.

The card industry, like the world itself, has changed.

well said

 

[plainwhitejerseys]

Fox News is the least biased of all TV news networks. They are less to the right than the others are to the left.

I hope for your sake you are kidding.

He's right.