Cavs v/s Magic game 5 thread

[bballcardkid]

You can love or hate Lebron all you want, but look at what he's done this series and it's damn impressive.

Keep in mind that MJ didn't get a title until he got Pippen. No one one this team comes close to what Pippen was as a player.

That's a fair argument, but what did Scottie do after Jordan left?

Teamed up with Clyde Drexler, Hakeem Ola*, and got a western conference finals exit (3 NBA top 50 players on 1 team).

True, but all of these guys were past their prime. Hakeem didn't make it through the whole season either.

I think Barkley was on that team too if I'm not mistaken. I forgot all about the chuckster being a Rocket.

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

Tonight I can understand them talking about LBJ because he's the reason the Cavs win this one, but who cares how many points he scores in games if the team doesn't win? It's a useless stat.

Jordan averaged 37+ ppg in 1986-87. People were probably talking about him then the Bulls finished under .500.

The NBA markets it's stars. Deal with it. Before Lebron it was Kobe, before Kobe it was MJ...

 

[Card Magnet]

Tonight I can understand them talking about LBJ because he's the reason the Cavs win this one, but who cares how many points he scores in games if the team doesn't win? It's a useless stat.

Jordan averaged 37+ ppg in 1986-87. People were probably talking about him then the Bulls finished under .500.

The NBA markets it's stars. Deal with it. Before Lebron it was Kobe, before Kobe it was MJ...

They won titles.

Can't really comment about old Michael, because I wasn't around then...or at least I have no memory.

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

You can love or hate Lebron all you want, but look at what he's done this series and it's damn impressive.

Keep in mind that MJ didn't get a title until he got Pippen. No one one this team comes close to what Pippen was as a player.

That's a fair argument, but what did Scottie do after Jordan left?

Teamed up with Clyde Drexler, Hakeem Ola*, and got a western conference finals exit (3 NBA top 50 players on 1 team).

True, but all of these guys were past their prime. Hakeem didn't make it through the whole season either.

I think Barkley was on that team too if I'm not mistaken. I forgot all about the chuckster being a Rocket.

He was, and was 35 that year. I made a mistake before, Hakeem did play the whole season. That was the strike shortened season.

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

[quote="Card Magnet":29ry1xkt]Tonight I can understand them talking about LBJ because he's the reason the Cavs win this one, but who cares how many points he scores in games if the team doesn't win? It's a useless stat.

Jordan averaged 37+ ppg in 1986-87. People were probably talking about him then the Bulls finished under .500.

The NBA markets it's stars. Deal with it. Before Lebron it was Kobe, before Kobe it was MJ...

They won titles.[/quote:29ry1xkt]

Jordan won a title in 86-87? Kobe took a few years but he was hyped before that. Come on.

 

[Card Magnet]

[quote="Card Magnet":3izcrryr]Tonight I can understand them talking about LBJ because he's the reason the Cavs win this one, but who cares how many points he scores in games if the team doesn't win? It's a useless stat.

Jordan averaged 37+ ppg in 1986-87. People were probably talking about him then the Bulls finished under .500.

The NBA markets it's stars. Deal with it. Before Lebron it was Kobe, before Kobe it was MJ...

They won titles.

Jordan won a title in 86-87? Kobe took a few years but he was hyped before that. Come on.[/quote:3izcrryr]
Obviously not as a rookie ::facepalm::

90-91 - his 5th year. LeBron is in his 6th without coming close, save this year.

There's marketing, and then there's over-marketing. I'm just tired of it. It wasn't this bad with Kobe (who had a ring in his 4th year if I'm not mistaken).

 

[bballcardkid]

[quote="Card Magnet":2bxdyku9]Tonight I can understand them talking about LBJ because he's the reason the Cavs win this one, but who cares how many points he scores in games if the team doesn't win? It's a useless stat.

Jordan averaged 37+ ppg in 1986-87. People were probably talking about him then the Bulls finished under .500.

The NBA markets it's stars. Deal with it. Before Lebron it was Kobe, before Kobe it was MJ...

They won titles.

Jordan won a title in 86-87? Kobe took a few years but he was hyped before that. Come on.[/quote:2bxdyku9]

That's the biggest thing. You look at players records when they score 40 points or more, it's usually not a good one.

But as far as Jordan, people remember him in the 90's when he was 35,36,37 where he was averaging 30 per game, 6 boards, 5 assists, AT 35, and 36. In his youthful days, he was a statistical machine. 32.0 ppg, 8 boards, 8 assists. I have a sports illustrated magazine chronicaling every game in his career. He had a stretch of like 10 games where 9 of them were triple doubles. He literally did whatever he wanted. Compare his shooting percentage to anyone in the NBA right now in his first few years, all the way to the end of his career. I think his career shooting percentage is something like second all time to Wilt. Probably wrong on that, but I know it's high. He played at such an efficient mannor, and his ability to take over a game in the fourth quarter. You would get chills watching him. I swear the guy wasn't human. The things he did, day in day out, it's unbelieavable. Makes me want to put in the highlight videos.

 

[Card Magnet]

I don't care if you can do 100 points a game. If you can't elevate your team to greatness, then you have failed your primary objective. It's all about the rings.

 

[bballcardkid]

People also forget who Joran had to play with in his early years. Oakley, Paxon, Cartwright (which MJ emphatically objected to), I can't even remember the early guys he played with in his career. Yet he had to go through the Detroits and the Bostons of the world all by himself, and people forget the 63 he dropped in the Garden after missing 64 games with a broken ankle earlier.

Fast forward to the glory days. The Bulls had the big 3: MJ, Pippen, Rodman. But who after that? Toni Kukoc? Ron Harper? Steve Keer? Bryan Williams or Byson Deli who only played like 18 games in 96/97 who later killed himself? Luc Longely as your starting center? Hahaha. Dikey Simpkins, Jud Beuchler, Randal Brown I think was another one. Besides one Varajo type player and one complimentary scorer, that was all MJ had.

 

[Card Magnet]

People also forget who Joran had to play with in his early years. Oakley, Paxon, Cartwright (which MJ emphatically objected to), I can't even remember the early guys he played with in his career. Yet he had to go through the Detroits and the Bostons of the world all by himself, and people forget the 63 he dropped in the Garden after missing 64 games with a broken ankle earlier.

Fast forward to the glory days. The Bulls had the big 3: MJ, Pippen, Rodman. But who after that? Toni Kukoc? Ron Harper? Steve Keer? Bryan Williams or Byson Deli who only played like 18 games in 96/97 who later killed himself? Luc Longely as your starting center? Hahaha. Dikey Simpkins, Jud Beuchler, Randal Brown I think was another one. Besides one Varajo type player and one complimentary scorer, that was all MJ had.

I happen to like Steve Kerr :evil:

 

[IndyManning18]

Bison Dele, aka Brian Williams, didn't kill himself. He is believed to have been murdered at sea by his older brother in 2002. Body never found.

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

[quote="Card Magnet":2ukwqqyq]

[quote="Card Magnet":2ukwqqyq]Tonight I can understand them talking about LBJ because he's the reason the Cavs win this one, but who cares how many points he scores in games if the team doesn't win? It's a useless stat.

Jordan averaged 37+ ppg in 1986-87. People were probably talking about him then the Bulls finished under .500.

The NBA markets it's stars. Deal with it. Before Lebron it was Kobe, before Kobe it was MJ...

They won titles.

Jordan won a title in 86-87? Kobe took a few years but he was hyped before that. Come on.[/quote:2ukwqqyq]
Obviously not as a rookie ::facepalm::

90-91 - his 5th year. LeBron is in his 6th without coming close, save this year.

There's marketing, and then there's over-marketing. I'm just tired of it. It wasn't this bad with Kobe (who had a ring in his 4th year if I'm not mistaken).[/quote:2ukwqqyq]

I'd say the year he made it to the finals with a worse team than he has now was close. That's also the year he scored 32 points in a row against detroit to take control of that series.

The thing is, you should actually be cheering for him if you're sick of him. If he can't win a title in Cleveland he's more likely to go to New York. You think the advertising is bad now?

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

People also forget who Joran had to play with in his early years. Oakley, Paxon, Cartwright (which MJ emphatically objected to), I can't even remember the early guys he played with in his career. Yet he had to go through the Detroits and the Bostons of the world all by himself, and people forget the 63 he dropped in the Garden after missing 64 games with a broken ankle earlier.

Fast forward to the glory days. The Bulls had the big 3: MJ, Pippen, Rodman. But who after that? Toni Kukoc? Ron Harper? Steve Keer? Bryan Williams or Byson Deli who only played like 18 games in 96/97 who later killed himself? Luc Longely as your starting center? Hahaha. Dikey Simpkins, Jud Beuchler, Randal Brown I think was another one. Besides one Varajo type player and one complimentary scorer, that was all MJ had.

In this league you need 2 super stars or 3 stars with a bunch of role players to win. The Bulls had the stars, and while they had a bunch of questions after that the guys they had actually turned out to be serviceable role players. Kukoc, Harper, Armstrong, and Kerr were all good at what they needed to do. The Bulls' bigs were always crappy but they only needed to get some easy buckets, play defense, and grab a couple boards. They did that just enough to win.

 

[IndyManning18]

Horace Grant was a good role player on those early Championship teams.

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

Horace Grant was a good role player on those early Championship teams.

I forgot about him, but that's a great example.

 

[ffgameman]

The keys to game five - Mo and Rafer.

Mo really stepped up his game, especially from beyond the arc. Rafer was practically non-existent last night, which that can't happen.