CBS Morning Segment - Baseball Cards down 75 %...

[ThoseBackPages]

i piss on CBS

 

[predatorkj]

I don't know about you guys but I clean the f' up at shows. I get stuff cheaper there than ebay. But maybe I'm looking for the right kind of stuff. From what I hear from some of the other guys, they do too. Hell...shows are one of the best places to buys cards now. I have a hell of a time finding astros stuff but I colelct 10,000 other players so what the hell. And you can finish or knock out large chunks of sets at shows. For next to nothing too, because the guy is just trying to sell as much stuff as possible so he doesn't have to load it back into his vehicle at the end of the weekend. My rookie card collection is a lot thicker than it used to be. Plus, all the autos and gu you want for $3. Can't beat that.

As for the card market itself, I'm not sure but I do feel that some people were on point with the whole idea of it being too much of an investment or too costly. I think these companies felt they had to evolve with the passing years. GU, autos, serial numbered stuff, etc., but the problem is, it's not going to be able to get much more different. With cards, you get limited to what you can do with them. It's not like a car or a computer where every year you can make a new model that has like 10 extra features. Hell...your computer will practically wipe your rear end for you. Cards are cards. The people who appreciate them will appreciate them. The people who have ADD and can't handle some form, however minor, of consistency, well they weren't going to be a long term customer anyways. So stop worrying about catering to them. Just do what you do and call it a day. Trying to find a way to make them somehow different and therefore more expensive is just going to make it harder to keep it going. Just put that effort into innovative design.

 

[reljac]

While I agree with many of the sentiments here. I do think there is a gap in the # of kids being introduced into the hobby compared to years past. Kids are the future. But even at that, it's a more distant future. The ultra collectors will still be collecting for the next 30-40 years. So plenty of time for new life to join in the hobby. The biggest challenge is that like anything else, prices are built on supply and demand. As the older collectors age if there are not an equally number of collectors replacign them, then the prices do go down (comparatively to inflation). That is basic economics.

I agree with the above stated sentiment of offering some level of cards with candy/gum again... like the old bazooka. The focus on that should not be the cards, but the candy and should be geared towards 5-9 year olds

 

[gogosox40]

I was at the Tinley Park, IL show today and a couple guys were talking about this.
There were still guys and some gals at the show who were doling out a$10 here and a $20 there.
Maybe not buying a 2/9 high end card, but buying stacks of 25 cent cards for their PCs.
That is what will keep the hobby going as long as Topps doesn't flood the market with over-high end stuff.
Get rid of GU cards and stck to autos and numbered inserts. The common folk like that stuff and will chase those faster than they will the $200 card.

I take it you mean the Orland Park show. I was there for a bit.

 

[Jaypers]

I'm beginning to lose some trust in the media.....

 

[jbhofmann]

CBS Sunday Morning is an entertainment news source that follows a similar structure to a newspaper. And in my opinion it's a very good one at that. Many of the pieces are opinion driven, not factual. If they wanted to do a factual hard news story on how the hobby has changed, nobody would watch. I enjoy CBS Sunday Morning for what it is, a great way to start a Sunday. All news seems to get lumped into bad news for some reason but I think two things CBS News does well is Sunday Morning and 60 Minutes.

 

[Crash Davis]

Many of my local shows have seen a considerable rise in traffic and participation due to the fact that people are fed up with rising ebay costs, shipping costs, and the intangibles of negative feedback, slow shipping, fees, chargebacks, etc. Lots of the folks I have talked to have said they are now transforming their habits to include more shows and fewer hours spent on ebay, COMC, etc. While the audience is smaller at a show, they feel that they are making headway in moving their stuff and making trades.

I also guarantee you that small local show wasn't even open when they filmed there.

edit: just saw the end of the vid. They were there on a Tuesday night... :benson: :benson: :benson: :benson: :benson:

That show, which you said was on a Tuesday night (which is true), was one of the most active shows in NJ for years and years and years. The Parsippany, NJ, Tuesday night show was legendary in the 1980s and 1990s. When I used to work down the street in the late 1990s, there would be a line that stretched out the building to get in. People would line up an hour in advance. There were wall-to-wall tables choc-full of cards.

It's sad to watch that segment and see just how much the show has deteriorated. To me, that's reflective of the card show circuit in general. At any given time in let's say 1997 at that Parsippany show, there would be 100s of people swarming at least 100 tables well into the night. Now, the show is a microcosm of what it once way. It's pathetic.

Many of you who post on these boards don't know, or remember, what it was like to be a collector in the 1980s. Where I grew up, there was a show every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday (5-6 shows every Sunday). The hobby pales in comparison to what it once was.

I find it funny how so many of you take such offense to what is an alarming truth - collecting cards isn't what it used to be 20 years ago.

If you're looking for any more proof, purchase an old Sports Collector's Digest from the late-1980s or very early 1990s and look at just how many hundreds and hundreds of shows were being held every month across the U.S.

And as much as I can't stand Alan Rosen, he has clearly aged better than the hobby he treated as his **********.

 

[sportscardtheory]

Many of my local shows have seen a considerable rise in traffic and participation due to the fact that people are fed up with rising ebay costs, shipping costs, and the intangibles of negative feedback, slow shipping, fees, chargebacks, etc. Lots of the folks I have talked to have said they are now transforming their habits to include more shows and fewer hours spent on ebay, COMC, etc. While the audience is smaller at a show, they feel that they are making headway in moving their stuff and making trades.

I also guarantee you that small local show wasn't even open when they filmed there.

edit: just saw the end of the vid. They were there on a Tuesday night... :benson: :benson: :benson: :benson: :benson:

That show, which you said was on a Tuesday night (which is true), was one of the most active shows in NJ for years and years and years. The Parsippany, NJ, Tuesday night show was legendary in the 1980s and 1990s. When I used to work down the street in the late 1990s, there would be a line that stretched out the building to get in. People would line up an hour in advance. There were wall-to-wall tables choc-full of cards.

It's sad to watch that segment and see just how much the show has deteriorated. To me, that's reflective of the card show circuit in general. At any given time in let's say 1997 at that Parsippany show, there would be 100s of people swarming at least 100 tables well into the night. Now, the show is a microcosm of what it once way. It's pathetic.

Many of you who post on these boards don't know, or remember, what it was like to be a collector in the 1980s. Where I grew up, there was a show every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday (5-6 shows every Sunday). The hobby pales in comparison to what it once was.

I find it funny how so many of you take such offense to what is an alarming truth - collecting cards isn't what it used to be 20 years ago.

If you're looking for any more proof, purchase an old Sports Collector's Digest from the late-1980s or very early 1990s and look at just how many hundreds and hundreds of shows were being held every month across the U.S.

And as much as I can't stand Alan Rosen, he has clearly aged better than the hobby he treated as his **********.

But, like the segment, you are ignoring the fact that the hobby has COMPLETELY changed due to the internet. Of course smaller shows will drown in this hobby environment. That doesn't mean that the hobby is dying or isn't what it was. I would make the argument that the hobby is even BIGGER and more "true" due to the internet. How can anyone think that the hobby is dying because shows are less influential when ANYONE can "set up" at any second at the biggest card show on the planet, eBay. The hobby is fine, it's just vastly different than the '80s and '90s. Those guys talking hobby collapse simply refuse to change with the times. They think it should be the way it used to be? How is that possible when I can get pretty much any card I want at any time from my bed or couch? How is it possible when anyone at any time can come to a site like FCB and pull off trades, sales and purchases from their phone?

As for Rosen, the hobby has passed him by. It's not the other way around. He's simply not needed in the current hobby environment and he's bitter.

 

[predatorkj]

That show, which you said was on a Tuesday night (which is true), was one of the most active shows in NJ for years and years and years. The Parsippany, NJ, Tuesday night show was legendary in the 1980s and 1990s. When I used to work down the street in the late 1990s, there would be a line that stretched out the building to get in. People would line up an hour in advance. There were wall-to-wall tables choc-full of cards.

It's sad to watch that segment and see just how much the show has deteriorated. To me, that's reflective of the card show circuit in general. At any given time in let's say 1997 at that Parsippany show, there would be 100s of people swarming at least 100 tables well into the night. Now, the show is a microcosm of what it once way. It's pathetic.

Many of you who post on these boards don't know, or remember, what it was like to be a collector in the 1980s. Where I grew up, there was a show every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday (5-6 shows every Sunday). The hobby pales in comparison to what it once was.

I find it funny how so many of you take such offense to what is an alarming truth - collecting cards isn't what it used to be 20 years ago.

If you're looking for any more proof, purchase an old Sports Collector's Digest from the late-1980s or very early 1990s and look at just how many hundreds and hundreds of shows were being held every month across the U.S.

And as much as I can't stand Alan Rosen, he has clearly aged better than the hobby he treated as his **********.

Look, I don't think anyone here past the age of 25 will argue with you about how strong the hobby used to be. It's night and day. I'll give ya that. I lived through it so yes, I do know what you are talking about. But two things blew that crap out of the water. The first was everyone and their brother started buying baseball cards. People who normally would never touch them. They did it and stashed untold quantities of late 80's/early 90's garbage into closets with the retarded notion that it would amass a fortune. They did this when a person with any common sense would know that the wave would eventually come crashing back to earth. And the second thing is the card companies decided to print a zillion cards to accomodate all these fly by nighters. Hell...McWilliams even broke out the presses to print extra copies of certain valuable cards(Ken who?) and was even cool enough to give mass amounts of sealed cases to staff as presents and bonuses.

A lot of people got burned, and a lot of people felt the burn. A lot of people who were buying vowed never again to foolishly invest hard earned money into something as tankable as cards and the companies vowed never to overprint products again. They figured they would have to do something worthwhile to ensure that the people who were still in the hobby had a reason to stay and also for the people who left....to give them a good reason to stay should they decide to come back.

At least it's righted itself on that aspect. Now if we could just get them to not run their "ideas" into the ground such as happened with the GU aspect and high priced products, we'd be okay. I think that is the reason for a lot of the lack of design for base products and even the fear of cheap products as a whole. The card companies found something that worked and they are scared to mess with it.

But man...what you are remembering was feuled by people going insane over a commodity that couldn't possibly have sustained the hype. It's no wonder it came to a screeching halt and for it to happen again would be bad. Not good.

 

[rymflaherty]

Here's something I often think about...and I think it relates to this subject, as it's the "business" side of things....
Why the hell do these companies not advertise better?

Outside of forums/magazines that already cater to the hobby....I rarely see any sort of advertisement. Occasionally I'll see an ad on MLB network (I recall one for the Diamond giveaway) and you'll see tie-ins with the sports video games, but that's about it.
It really keeps the hobby isolated......You're either in or you have no idea what's going on.

And here is why I think that's a big problem
No doubt the landscape has changed. Things are not like what they were in the 80's and 90's.
I'm not sure if you guys have had the same experience, but if I tell someone I collect cards.....It may cause them to reflect on doing that as a kid, but generally it's met with indifference. That is until I show them some of my "cards".
They then think it's pretty cool and are amazed at the designs, autographs, patches......all those things we take for granted (or have become common place) and there is a potential customer base that doesn't even realize these things exist.

So why do they not advertise these things?
Advertise a product like Tribute and show how the hobby has changed and give people a reason to come back.
I'd imagine when there were still a ton of hobby shops that was an avenue to keep people updated......Someone could stumble in there or check things out due to curiosity......but since that's not the case, you have to reach people.....Make an attempt to expand the hobby and bring people back......You can't only market the product to people that are buying it and then wonder why there is no potential growth.

 

[nborton]

I know I said this earlier, but it's not just cards. It's collecting in general. Everything took a hit when the internet and eBay came about. Which discouraged tons of collectors when their collections weren't worth what they thought.

Pre-eBay days most of us would probably never see a 1/1 ever. At least not in your own personal collection. Even though the cards of the 80s and 90s were overproduced for today's market, at the time they were fine. The markets in which you could obtain a particular card were much smaller, and they generally didn't overlap markets. Most collectors never bought anything outside of the city, or at most their state. The number of cards in a particular state is much smaller than picking from the world's collection on eBay.

 

[ChasHawk]

Junk wax collapsed well before ebay.

The people bitching about ebay are the creepy olds guys who are bitter because they can't sell a Greg Jeffries RC for $50 anymore to some unsuspecting kid and his dad.

 

[jbhofmann]

How many people have home telephones compared to 1990?

Does that mean people are less connected to others?

 

[Crash Davis]

Here's something I often think about...and I think it relates to this subject, as it's the "business" side of things....
Why the hell do these companies not advertise better?

Outside of forums/magazines that already cater to the hobby....I rarely see any sort of advertisement. Occasionally I'll see an ad on MLB network (I recall one for the Diamond giveaway) and you'll see tie-ins with the sports video games, but that's about it.
It really keeps the hobby isolated......You're either in or you have no idea what's going on.

And here is why I think that's a big problem
No doubt the landscape has changed. Things are not like what they were in the 80's and 90's.
I'm not sure if you guys have had the same experience, but if I tell someone I collect cards.....It may cause them to reflect on doing that as a kid, but generally it's met with indifference. That is until I show them some of my "cards".
They then think it's pretty cool and are amazed at the designs, autographs, patches......all those things we take for granted (or have become common place) and there is a potential customer base that doesn't even realize these things exist.

So why do they not advertise these things?
Advertise a product like Tribute and show how the hobby has changed and give people a reason to come back.
I'd imagine when there were still a ton of hobby shops that was an avenue to keep people updated......Someone could stumble in there or check things out due to curiosity......but since that's not the case, you have to reach people.....Make an attempt to expand the hobby and bring people back......You can't only market the product to people that are buying it and then wonder why there is no potential growth.

The reason why they don't advertise is because there is little to no upside in doing so. These companies care about their bottom line only, which makes sense considering they're operating a business.

This is why you see stocked shelves in Wal-Mart and Target but cobwebs in local hobby shops, if you're lucky enough to live close to one.

This hobby has regressed from what it was even five years ago. The thrill of walking into a card store and buying a few packs, picking up the newest Beckett and perhaps a pack of top loaders has passed us all by.

It's like how most kids today couldn't imagine what life was like before cell phones and computers. That's what my kids will say about card stores and card shows.

For anyone to say that the hobby is better off online is really missing the point. There was that thrill that accompanied the card store or card show trip. That thrill can't be replaced by perusing eBay. You can't hold the loot in your hand and touch it and smell it. It's nothing more than megapixels on a computer screen until days later when it arrives.

That's the point the CBS segment was making. The fad that was card collecting reached its peak in the 1980s and 1990s and has basically cooled down considerably the past few years. Those facts are undeniable.

Is the sky falling? No. If you're a collector and stand by your collecting values, you will always find solace and enjoyment in collecting.

As with most everything, things change; and, the hobby is no different. But to me, the hobby is nowhere near what it was during its heyday. And it's sad that so many of you weren't around to enjoy the glory days.

 

[Crash Davis]

How many people have home telephones compared to 1990?

Does that mean people are less connected to others?

Actually the connection is far less intimate than it was back in 1990. How many of you actually pick up the phone to talk rather than send a text or an email?

There's something to be said for face-to-face interaction that has been greatly eradicated with the advent of emails and text messages.

Perfect example: my 20-year high school reuinion is coming up. I wonder what so-and-so is doing nowadays. Oh wait, I can just go on Facebook and see. Or maybe, I've been communicating with them via email the past five years, so seeing them will be anti-climactic.

 

[Jared]

I actually have been to the Parsippany, NJ show that they featured.

Just this past week's show was definitely the worst I have been to. It's the first that I've been to in a couple of months. Same dealers with the same cards. The problem with shows like this is there is no new stuff for sale.

However, there are other good shows around this area that are on weekends and draw a pretty good crowd. Tuesday afternoon/night shows aren't going to get a lot of people. There is no denying that.

 

[sportscardtheory]

There are still hobby shops, card shows and packs/boxes at retail outlets. If the thrill of opening packs and buying supplies is gone for you, that's on you, not the hobby.

 

[Crash Davis]

There are still hobby shops, card shows and packs/boxes at retail outlets. If the thrill of opening packs and buying supplies is gone for you, that's on you, not the hobby.

You didn't read what I wrote correctly. I said that thrill can't be replaced by perusing eBay. I never said it is gone for me.

 

[tunahead]

You didn't read what I wrote correctly. I said that thrill can't be replaced by perusing eBay. I never said it is gone for me.

I still find a pretty good thrill when perusing eBay and I find something that I've been trying to find for awhile. I used to find card shows and shops to be a real pain as most dealers/owners that I dealt with back in the day were a bunch of jerk wads. Different strokes for different folks I guess

 

[Crash Davis]

You didn't read what I wrote correctly. I said that thrill can't be replaced by perusing eBay. I never said it is gone for me.

I still find a pretty good thrill when perusing eBay and I find something that I've been trying to find for awhile. I used to find card shows and shops to be a real pain as most dealers/owners that I dealt with back in the day were a bunch of jerk wads. Different strokes for different folks I guess

IMHO, nothing compares to spending a Sunday morning peeling through a discount box, finding a needle in a heystack, and taking it home with you.