Cliff Lee to the RANGERS

[SamHell]

I'm not a big prospector, but is Beltre still in the top tier for them as players on the rise? He sure seemed like he would be a good player last I checked.

Ranked #4 or 5# in the system in terms of highest ceiling. He was recently promoted to AA. Starting to show some power but plate discipline is still a problem. High risk/High reward prospect. ETA for a call-up is late 2011.

 

[vwnut13]

Yankee fan tears taste so good

The Yankees didn't need Lee. It's just a little annoying that a team backs out of a deal that was supposidly already being put into place because of an injury before physicals took place. In other words, it was an excuse.

I'm not mad that the Yankees didn't get Lee. Without him they already have the best record in baseball, i just don't like how it went down.

I have been watching smoak all year and he has been a let down to say the least. He could turn out the be great, but from what I have seen, that isnt going to happen.

Exactly. Wouldn't you rather take your chance on someone that has put up as good, if not better numbers at every level, is three years younger, and isn't hitting .209 in the Majors?

Heck, Montero is currently younger in AAA than Smoak was in his MiLB debut. Montero has room to grow. He isn't 21 yet. All Smoak can do now is mature as a major league hitter.

 

[onionring9]

as an A's fan I do not approve of this Rangers deal!!

 

[bouwob]

Also on a side note, pitchers come to texas to die, not increase their value.

 

[vwnut13]

Also on a side note, pitchers come to texas to die, not increase their value.

And Seattle has their third or forth first basemanin the bigs, and catchersin the minors?

 

[Sly]

Certain people want to turn this into a Montero vs. Smoak. At the end of the day, it's easier to develop a first baseman into a major league player than it is a catcher, so why not take the kid that has proven he's already developed into a MLB player. On top of that...what has Montero done in AAA that has been so "impressive"?? .253-6-35, .733 OPS...meh. Smoak already has more home runs at the MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL than Montero does in AAA, in LESS games played.

The Mariners wanted MLB-ready. The Mariners need a player with a little more power. That's what they got.

It would be 10x easier to go get an average catcher as a free agent in the off-season than to put your eggs into the basket of a kid who is suspect to be a "star" at that position. Catchers are not as easily developed as people think. Any day of the week I'd take a prospect first baseman and a veteran catcher over a veteran first baseman and prospect catcher.

For those wondering about the draft picks...keep in mind, say NY signs Lee and other free agents, you're looking at MAYBE the #30 draft pick (or late first rounder) and a supplemental pick...all that of course is dependent upon who else NY signs. If a higher ranked free agent gets signed by NY, then that first round pick is no longer the team that lost Lee.

And the end of the day, I'd take Smoak/Beaven over Aumont/Gilles...and that's what this comes down to.

 

[vwnut13]

Certain people want to turn this into a Montero vs. Smoak. At the end of the day, it's easier to develop a first baseman into a major league player than it is a catcher, so why not take the kid that has proven he's already developed into a MLB player. On top of that...what has Montero done in AAA that has been so "impressive"?? .253-6-35, .733 OPS...meh. Smoak already has more home runs at the MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL than Montero does in AAA, in LESS games played.

Montero AAA Stats - 77 Games - .253-6-53 .737 OPS

Smoak AAA Stats - 69 games - .255-6-28 .783 OPS

Sorry but what has Smoak done at AAA of the Majors that has been so "impressive"??

Jesus Montero is THREE years younger than Smoak when he was last in AAA. And Jesus hasn't shown that he downright sucks in the Majors yet. I'd take my chances.

 

[SeattleSports]

Certain people want to turn this into a Montero vs. Smoak. At the end of the day, it's easier to develop a first baseman into a major league player than it is a catcher, so why not take the kid that has proven he's already developed into a MLB player. On top of that...what has Montero done in AAA that has been so "impressive"?? .253-6-35, .733 OPS...meh. Smoak already has more home runs at the MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL than Montero does in AAA, in LESS games played.

Montero AAA Stats - 77 Games - .253-6-53 .737 OPS

Smoak AAA Stats - 69 games - .255-6-28 .783 OPS

Sorry but what has Smoak done at AAA of the Majors that has been so "impressive"??

Jesus Montero is THREE years younger than Smoak when he was last in AAA. And Jesus hasn't shown that he downright sucks in the Majors yet. I'd take my chances.

We get it, you're a yankee troll, stop.

 

[Hallsgator]

Certain people want to turn this into a Montero vs. Smoak. At the end of the day, it's easier to develop a first baseman into a major league player than it is a catcher, so why not take the kid that has proven he's already developed into a MLB player. On top of that...what has Montero done in AAA that has been so "impressive"?? .253-6-35, .733 OPS...meh. Smoak already has more home runs at the MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL than Montero does in AAA, in LESS games played.

Montero AAA Stats - 77 Games - .253-6-53 .737 OPS

Smoak AAA Stats - 69 games - .255-6-28 .783 OPS

Sorry but what has Smoak done at AAA of the Majors that has been so "impressive"??

Jesus Montero is THREE years younger than Smoak when he was last in AAA. And Jesus hasn't shown that he downright sucks in the Majors yet. I'd take my chances.

Yea, cause half a season is definitely enough time to say a player downright sucks.

 

[rebelpawn]

Certain people want to turn this into a Montero vs. Smoak. At the end of the day, it's easier to develop a first baseman into a major league player than it is a catcher, so why not take the kid that has proven he's already developed into a MLB player. On top of that...what has Montero done in AAA that has been so "impressive"?? .253-6-35, .733 OPS...meh. Smoak already has more home runs at the MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL than Montero does in AAA, in LESS games played.

Montero AAA Stats - 77 Games - .253-6-53 .737 OPS

Smoak AAA Stats - 69 games - .255-6-28 .783 OPS

Sorry but what has Smoak done at AAA of the Majors that has been so "impressive"??

Jesus Montero is THREE years younger than Smoak when he was last in AAA. And Jesus hasn't shown that he downright sucks in the Majors yet. I'd take my chances.

And when you get to run a major league team, by all means go ahead.
But until then, stop crying about not getting Lee. He'll sign wih your team during the winter and you can be all happy again.

 

[vwnut13]

Certain people want to turn this into a Montero vs. Smoak. At the end of the day, it's easier to develop a first baseman into a major league player than it is a catcher, so why not take the kid that has proven he's already developed into a MLB player. On top of that...what has Montero done in AAA that has been so "impressive"?? .253-6-35, .733 OPS...meh. Smoak already has more home runs at the MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL than Montero does in AAA, in LESS games played.

Montero AAA Stats - 77 Games - .253-6-53 .737 OPS

Smoak AAA Stats - 69 games - .255-6-28 .783 OPS

Sorry but what has Smoak done at AAA of the Majors that has been so "impressive"??

Jesus Montero is THREE years younger than Smoak when he was last in AAA. And Jesus hasn't shown that he downright sucks in the Majors yet. I'd take my chances.

And when you get to run a major league team, by all means go ahead.
But until then, stop crying about not getting Lee. He'll sign wih your team during the winter and you can be all happy again.

I'm not crying about Lee. In fact I didn't care if we got him now. I would have rater kept Montero but I figured if we were getting Lee this year it wasn't bad.

Now I'm just tryin to figure out why Smoak is "better" than Montero. Montero has put up equal to better numbers at each level, and is THREE years younger.

rebelpawn stated that Smoak "has proven he's already developed into a MLB player" Really, if he has already developed into a MLB player than I say, looking at the stats, that he sucks. Quite a few minor leaguers have potential to hit .200 with 8 homeruns in the Majors. Does that mean that they are a proven MLB player if they come up and do that for three months?

 

[donrusscrusademan]

Certain people want to turn this into a Montero vs. Smoak. At the end of the day, it's easier to develop a first baseman into a major league player than it is a catcher, so why not take the kid that has proven he's already developed into a MLB player. On top of that...what has Montero done in AAA that has been so "impressive"?? .253-6-35, .733 OPS...meh. Smoak already has more home runs at the MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL than Montero does in AAA, in LESS games played.

Montero AAA Stats - 77 Games - .253-6-53 .737 OPS

Smoak AAA Stats - 69 games - .255-6-28 .783 OPS

Sorry but what has Smoak done at AAA of the Majors that has been so "impressive"??

Jesus Montero is THREE years younger than Smoak when he was last in AAA. And Jesus hasn't shown that he downright sucks in the Majors yet. I'd take my chances.

We get it, you're a yankee troll, stop.

hes not going to stop till someone gives him his milk and cookies!!! :x
:lol:

I can image a lot of these high payroll fans buying a new baseball video game and immediately editing the rosters so every good player is on his team, and then jack down the difficulty. 154-8, here we come!!!

 

[SamHell]

And Jesus hasn't shown that he downright sucks in the Majors yet. I'd take my chances.

Jesus Montero hasn't shown he can be a big league catcher either. I wonder how valuable he will be as a DH on a team that needs the DH spot for their aging regulars. I'll give you that Montero has more upside as a hitter(mostly due to age), but quit acting like Smoak is a scrub. Smoak will be solid defensively, hit 20-25 HR's a year and walk 80-90 times a year(plus he under control for 6 years). Throw in Beaven and thats a pretty decent haul for 3 months of Cliff Lee and 2.5 million.

 

[Sly]

Certain people want to turn this into a Montero vs. Smoak. At the end of the day, it's easier to develop a first baseman into a major league player than it is a catcher, so why not take the kid that has proven he's already developed into a MLB player. On top of that...what has Montero done in AAA that has been so "impressive"?? .253-6-35, .733 OPS...meh. Smoak already has more home runs at the MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL than Montero does in AAA, in LESS games played.

Montero AAA Stats - 77 Games - .253-6-53 .737 OPS

Smoak AAA Stats - 69 games - .255-6-28 .783 OPS

Sorry but what has Smoak done at AAA of the Majors that has been so "impressive"??

Jesus Montero is THREE years younger than Smoak when he was last in AAA. And Jesus hasn't shown that he downright sucks in the Majors yet. I'd take my chances.

And when you get to run a major league team, by all means go ahead.
But until then, stop crying about not getting Lee. He'll sign wih your team during the winter and you can be all happy again.

I'm not crying about Lee. In fact I didn't care if we got him now. I would have rater kept Montero but I figured if we were getting Lee this year it wasn't bad.

Now I'm just tryin to figure out why Smoak is "better" than Montero. Montero has put up equal to better numbers at each level, and is THREE years younger.

rebelpawn stated that Smoak "has proven he's already developed into a MLB player" Really, if he has already developed into a MLB player than I say, looking at the stats, that he sucks. Quite a few minor leaguers have potential to hit .200 with 8 homeruns in the Majors. Does that mean that they are a proven MLB player if they come up and do that for three months?

Mike Schmidt in his first 145 MLB games hit .197 with 19 HR's...I guess he sucked.
Robin Yount in his first 107 MLB games had a .622 OPS...I guess he sucked too.
Alex Rodriguez in his first 65 MLB games hit .224 with 5 HR's...he sucks.

Just a few samples of how basing someone's career on the first few games is flat out ridiculous.

Regardless, Smoak isn't going to NY and Montero is staying in NY and you don't care that Lee's not coming to NY...so why are you so upset about this and wanting to continue to bash the trade and compare Smoak to Montero?? I'm guess that as much as you say it, that "I don't care" is actually a "I do care."

Mariners are happy...Rangers are happy...many Mariners fans are happy...many Rangers fans are happy. For not caring, where do you fit into that equation??? Just curious.

 

[rebelpawn]

Certain people want to turn this into a Montero vs. Smoak. At the end of the day, it's easier to develop a first baseman into a major league player than it is a catcher, so why not take the kid that has proven he's already developed into a MLB player. On top of that...what has Montero done in AAA that has been so "impressive"?? .253-6-35, .733 OPS...meh. Smoak already has more home runs at the MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL than Montero does in AAA, in LESS games played.

Montero AAA Stats - 77 Games - .253-6-53 .737 OPS

Smoak AAA Stats - 69 games - .255-6-28 .783 OPS

Sorry but what has Smoak done at AAA of the Majors that has been so "impressive"??

Jesus Montero is THREE years younger than Smoak when he was last in AAA. And Jesus hasn't shown that he downright sucks in the Majors yet. I'd take my chances.

And when you get to run a major league team, by all means go ahead.
But until then, stop crying about not getting Lee. He'll sign wih your team during the winter and you can be all happy again.

I'm not crying about Lee. In fact I didn't care if we got him now. I would have rater kept Montero but I figured if we were getting Lee this year it wasn't bad.

Now I'm just tryin to figure out why Smoak is "better" than Montero. Montero has put up equal to better numbers at each level, and is THREE years younger.

rebelpawn stated that Smoak "has proven he's already developed into a MLB player" Really, if he has already developed into a MLB player than I say, looking at the stats, that he sucks. Quite a few minor leaguers have potential to hit .200 with 8 homeruns in the Majors. Does that mean that they are a proven MLB player if they come up and do that for three months?

No I didn't. Get your facts straight.
This is the second thread that you've "quoted" that I've said things that I have not. I know it's late on the east coast but please stop misquoting me.
Debating anything with you is like trying to nail Jello to the wall...

 

[hail2thevictors]

Certain people want to turn this into a Montero vs. Smoak. At the end of the day, it's easier to develop a first baseman into a major league player than it is a catcher, so why not take the kid that has proven he's already developed into a MLB player. On top of that...what has Montero done in AAA that has been so "impressive"?? .253-6-35, .733 OPS...meh. Smoak already has more home runs at the MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL than Montero does in AAA, in LESS games played.

Montero AAA Stats - 77 Games - .253-6-53 .737 OPS

Smoak AAA Stats - 69 games - .255-6-28 .783 OPS

Sorry but what has Smoak done at AAA of the Majors that has been so "impressive"??

Jesus Montero is THREE years younger than Smoak when he was last in AAA. And Jesus hasn't shown that he downright sucks in the Majors yet. I'd take my chances.

And when you get to run a major league team, by all means go ahead.
But until then, stop crying about not getting Lee. He'll sign wih your team during the winter and you can be all happy again.

I'm not crying about Lee. In fact I didn't care if we got him now. I would have rater kept Montero but I figured if we were getting Lee this year it wasn't bad.

You would have rather keep Montero. LOL. That is about all I need to read right there.

 

[RL24]

Great trade for the Mariners. Hopefully Ichiro will have something to play for in the next 3-5 years. He's getting old and hasn't won jack squat in America other than personal awards.

Allen

I think Ichiro should have hopped into the trade w/ Lee and gone to the Yankees. WS Rings for everyone! Hip Hip Hooray! Hey.... it worked for CC!

Ken_Rosenthal

#Yankees livid with #Mariners. Believed they had deal, then M's took it to #Rangers saying put Smoak in and Lee is yours... #MLB

I think it was all staged. The Yankees agreed to do a deal with the M's alright... the deal was this... we'll pretend like we'll give you Montero in order to scare Texas into giving you Smoak. Wasn't it weird how all these teams were interested in Lee, but not the Yankees. Then all of a sudden this morning it was like BAM out of the blue, he's about to be traded to the Yankees. And the article I read this morning mentioned that Adams was injured, so they already knew he wouldn't pass the physical... it was all just smoke and mirrors. Texas really wanted Lee and panicked when they thought they were going to lose him to the Yanks, so they collapsed and agreed to deal Smoak. Who is going to be awesome!


I think it was a great move by the Rangers though. Texas Baseball will be exciting for a while at least! Ticket revenue will increase, and those extra playoff games would be real nice for the budget.

 

[rsmath]

I love the trade! Smoak becomes collectible for me (because other than Grif Jr, Ichiro, Ackley and Edgar, who cares in hobby circles!) and Lee gets to go to Dallas and wilt in the summer heat like the Rangers will.

 

[vwnut13]

Certain people want to turn this into a Montero vs. Smoak. At the end of the day, it's easier to develop a first baseman into a major league player than it is a catcher, so why not take the kid that has proven he's already developed into a MLB player. On top of that...what has Montero done in AAA that has been so "impressive"?? .253-6-35, .733 OPS...meh. Smoak already has more home runs at the MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL than Montero does in AAA, in LESS games played.

Montero AAA Stats - 77 Games - .253-6-53 .737 OPS

Smoak AAA Stats - 69 games - .255-6-28 .783 OPS

Sorry but what has Smoak done at AAA of the Majors that has been so "impressive"??

Jesus Montero is THREE years younger than Smoak when he was last in AAA. And Jesus hasn't shown that he downright sucks in the Majors yet. I'd take my chances.

And when you get to run a major league team, by all means go ahead.
But until then, stop crying about not getting Lee. He'll sign wih your team during the winter and you can be all happy again.

I'm not crying about Lee. In fact I didn't care if we got him now. I would have rater kept Montero but I figured if we were getting Lee this year it wasn't bad.

You would have rather keep Montero. LOL. That is about all I need to read right there.

Yes, I'd rather have years of Montero than less than three months of Lee, who reportidley wants to test out the FA market no matter what.