Concerns about Panini.....

[G $MONEY$]

This great card was posted on the Baseball boards by FCBer jubei777, as i was looking at the card i noticed the COA at the bottom, "The Enclosed GAME WORN SWATCH is guaranteed by Panini America, inc." Now considering the season is so new, is this really a GAME WORN patch? While it could be from the pre season perhaps, i am more inclined to believe this is not game worn material. What do you guys all think? Maybe someone who has facebook could pose this question to them on their facebook page?

Here is jubei777's card with the statement that this is "guaranteed" game worn material, near the bottom

Thoughts? and are all these RCs stating that they have game worn material on them?

 

[plainwhitejerseys]

Didn't they hold the rookie photo shoot at a rink this year and have the players play a game of shinny? I've been out of the card game for awhile, but I think I remember reading about that. If they played shinny and he wore that jersey, then their guarantee holds true.

 

[PhillyPuckNut]

It is completely possible that the jerseys on the RCs are not game worn unless, like pwj said, they held some kind of small game with the rookies. I was hoping they would avoid the problems they had with last year's NT football where the rookie cards had "Game Worn" on the front said on the back they were from the Rookie Premiere. But these just say "game worn". Definitely worth looking into.

 

[G $MONEY$]

Didn't they hold the rookie photo shoot at a rink this year and have the players play a game of shinny? I've been out of the card game for awhile, but I think I remember reading about that. If they played shinny and he wore that jersey, then their guarantee holds true.

Yeah the rookie photo shoot was held in Toronto back in August i believe. I didn't actually hear about them having this shinny game, but if that is true, then i guess their wording could be interpreted as "game worn", since they aren't actually saying what type of game, although most people would think that "game worn" would mean an official NHL game or at least a junior/minor league game or some international tournament, not a quick pick up game.

I would be interested to hear what Panini says about this..

 

[PhillyPuckNut]

Didn't they hold the rookie photo shoot at a rink this year and have the players play a game of shinny? I've been out of the card game for awhile, but I think I remember reading about that. If they played shinny and he wore that jersey, then their guarantee holds true.

Yeah the rookie photo shoot was held in Toronto back in August i believe. I didn't actually hear about them having this shinny game, but if that is true, then i guess their wording could be interpreted as "game worn", since they aren't actually saying what type of game, although most people would think that "game worn" would mean an official NHL game or at least a junior/minor league game or some international tournament, not a quick pick up game.

I would be interested to hear what Panini says about this..

I just sent them a message on Facebook. They're usually pretty good about replying so hopefully we'll know something today.

 

[Sly]

What's funny is that one of the arguments about on-card autos is that people say "well the player TOUCHED the card." Okay, why does the same not apply to a jersey card? At the end of the day, this playe WORE this jersey and WORE it in a game of sorts. Who cares if that game is an NHL game, a WHL game, an AHL game, a Junior World Championship game, an Olympics game, an exhibition game (which is technically what this would be). How is this exhibition game any different than a pre-season game.

I see as this...a game is a game. The player WORE the jersey and WORE it in a game of sorts, and THAT is what should matter with these, at least that's what matters to me.

 

[abt3509]

It does not specify that it was worn in an NHL game. Could be a jersey that was game worn prior to NHL.

 

[ThoseBackPages]

that kid was born a week before my 20th birthday

::facepalm:: ::facepalm:: ::facepalm:: ::facepalm::

 

[thehamiltonian]

Since they didn't specify what type of game, I think the guarantee is valid.

Maybe not the most genuine phrase ever put down on paper, but not fraud either.

Same kind of thing when UD used old-timer pieces and said "official NHL game". "Official" is such a vague term that it could have meant anything.

 

[G $MONEY$]

What's funny is that one of the arguments about on-card autos is that people say "well the player TOUCHED the card." Okay, why does the same not apply to a jersey card? At the end of the day, this playe WORE this jersey and WORE it in a game of sorts. Who cares if that game is an NHL game, a WHL game, an AHL game, a Junior World Championship game, an Olympics game, an exhibition game (which is technically what this would be). How is this exhibition game any different than a pre-season game.

I see as this...a game is a game. The player WORE the jersey and WORE it in a game of sorts, and THAT is what should matter with these, at least that's what matters to me.

Personally for me, its the history of the swatch that's important. Even if i don't know what game or what season it was worn in, as long as it was worn in an NHL game, then i am happy. I will then know that this tiny swatch was actually on the ice in front of 20, 000 people live and perhaps thousands of others on TV. Might sound weird to some, but that's how i see it.

What your saying can also be applied to the full game used jersey market. That's why full game used jersey collectors want to buy a jersey that was used in the NHL game and not just worn by the player at a photo shoot for example, or better yet even compare it to a practice worn jersey. You can pick up some practice worn jerseys, of less popular guys, at the Flames annual sale for under $100, compare it to an actual gamer of the same player and the gamer will cost several hundred dollars more and will be more popular with collectors. The full jersey Game used collectors want to buy and collect the jerseys that were worn in an actual NHL game and not one just worn in practice or a photo shoot (the player still wore it), same applies for cards, some collectors want actual NHL game worn swatches and not just photo shoots or shinny games.

 

[G $MONEY$]

Since they didn't specify what type of game, I think the guarantee is valid.

Maybe not the most genuine phrase ever put down on paper, but not fraud either.

Same kind of thing when UD used old-timer pieces and said "official NHL game". "Official" is such a vague term that it could have meant anything.

Can you confirm that the rookies did end up playing a pick up game together? Where they switching jerseys every shift in this pick up game?

 

[Sly]

What's funny is that one of the arguments about on-card autos is that people say "well the player TOUCHED the card." Okay, why does the same not apply to a jersey card? At the end of the day, this playe WORE this jersey and WORE it in a game of sorts. Who cares if that game is an NHL game, a WHL game, an AHL game, a Junior World Championship game, an Olympics game, an exhibition game (which is technically what this would be). How is this exhibition game any different than a pre-season game.

I see as this...a game is a game. The player WORE the jersey and WORE it in a game of sorts, and THAT is what should matter with these, at least that's what matters to me.

Personally for me, its the history of the swatch that's important. Even if i don't know what game or what season it was worn in, as long as it was worn in an NHL game, then i am happy. I will then know that this tiny swatch was actually on the ice in front of 20, 000 people live and perhaps thousands of others on TV. Might sound weird to some, but that's how i see it.

What your saying can also be applied to the full game used jersey market. That's why full game used jersey collectors want to buy a jersey that was used in the NHL game and not just worn by the player at a photo shoot for example, or better yet even compare it to a practice worn jersey. You can pick up some practice worn jerseys, of less popular guys, at the Flames annual sale for under $100, compare it to an actual gamer of the same player and the gamer will cost several hundred dollars more and will be more popular with collectors. The full jersey Game used collectors want to buy and collect the jerseys that were worn in an actual NHL game and not one just worn in practice or a photo shoot (the player still wore it), same applies for cards, some collectors want actual NHL game worn swatches and not just photo shoots or shinny games.

What's so great about the history if you don't know the history behind it? It can be said for any GU card...what if a player wore a jersey once, and sat on the bench the entire game? Would you still want it and would it mean the same? Technically, it's game-worn, even if the player didn't play (of course, this applies more to baseball or football moreso than hockey.)

There's always going to be different views on it, and it's never going to be fully answered until the companies say "this jersey was game-worn in a game on xx/xx/xxxx, but that won't happen. Until then, mostly in the way of prospects/rookies, I think it's safe to assume the jerseys are non-regular season games. Maybe these ones are exhibition game jerseys...but we don't know. Same argument can be made against UD.

 

[thehamiltonian]

Since they didn't specify what type of game, I think the guarantee is valid.

Maybe not the most genuine phrase ever put down on paper, but not fraud either.

Same kind of thing when UD used old-timer pieces and said "official NHL game". "Official" is such a vague term that it could have meant anything.

Can you confirm that the rookies did end up playing a pick up game together? Where they switching jerseys every shift in this pick up game?

I definitely saw them play a pickup game (I think it was on YouTube), but I have no idea how many jerseys they went through, or even who was actually in the game. I'm sure it was a bunch.

 

[plainwhitejerseys]

What's funny is that one of the arguments about on-card autos is that people say "well the player TOUCHED the card." Okay, why does the same not apply to a jersey card? At the end of the day, this playe WORE this jersey and WORE it in a game of sorts. Who cares if that game is an NHL game, a WHL game, an AHL game, a Junior World Championship game, an Olympics game, an exhibition game (which is technically what this would be). How is this exhibition game any different than a pre-season game.

I see as this...a game is a game. The player WORE the jersey and WORE it in a game of sorts, and THAT is what should matter with these, at least that's what matters to me.

And the player TOUCHED the sticker as well.

 

[plainwhitejerseys]

Since they didn't specify what type of game, I think the guarantee is valid.

Maybe not the most genuine phrase ever put down on paper, but not fraud either.

Same kind of thing when UD used old-timer pieces and said "official NHL game". "Official" is such a vague term that it could have meant anything.

Can you confirm that the rookies did end up playing a pick up game together? Where they switching jerseys every shift in this pick up game?

I definitely saw them play a pickup game (I think it was on YouTube), but I have no idea how many jerseys they went through, or even who was actually in the game. I'm sure it was a bunch.

There ya go. And if they played in that game, you can bet that they went through a TON of jerseys.

 

[plainwhitejerseys]

[youtube:313ybim5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAV41cTh7OA[/youtube:313ybim5]

Concerns squashed.

 

[stu]

My main concern with panini is the amount of redemptions.

 

[Sly]

My main concern with panini is the amount of redemptions.

The thing I've seen though is that most of their redemptions are for cards that are parallels of in-box autos. Subban I think is the only one I've not seen a live auto of. Seguin has some redemptions, but they're the high-numbered parallels (Reds, Blues), same with many of the other players. I personally am not worried about the redemptions not being filled. I just hope any redemptions are all on-card.

 

[stu]

My main concern with panini is the amount of redemptions.

The thing I've seen though is that most of their redemptions are for cards that are parallels of in-box autos. Subban I think is the only one I've not seen a live auto of. Seguin has some redemptions, but they're the high-numbered parallels (Reds, Blues), same with many of the other players. I personally am not worried about the redemptions not being filled. I just hope any redemptions are all on-card.

I have opened two boxes and got two redemptions. Will probably sell and not worry about them being filled.

 

[PhillyPuckNut]

Sorry to bring this thread back up, but I finally got a response from Panini about the rookie jersey question that was probably answered by the video (I didn't watch it).

That was a mistake. They're event-worn from the NHLPA Rookie Showcase. We certainly regret the error and have made adjustments to the system so that it doesn't happen again.