Controversial Hall of Fame ballots sent out tomorrrow

[Austin]

Bonds and McGwire and Clemens in together. How sweet.

And Sosa reunites with McGwire.

 

[All The Hype]

Kenny Lofton is not a Hall of Famer.


I think Biggio is the only one on the list that I'm confident about. Bagwell and Piazza both deserve it based on their accolades, but both are in the steroid shadow.


The problem with putting guys in for their pre-steroid achievements is that it doesn't erase the fact that they cheated during their careers. I agree that Clemens and Bonds (and possibly a couple others) had HOF-worthy careers before they cheated, but if you allow one cheater in, the wall holding the other cheaters out begins to crumble.

 

[Austin]

I think Biggio is the only one on the list that I'm confident about.
Bagwell and Piazza both deserve it based on their accolades, but both are in the steroid shadow.

How can you be confident Biggio didn't use steroids? He hit his career high in home runs at age 40! How many players do that? He could have taken steroids or HGH so he could stick around longer and reach 3,000 hits.

 

[All The Hype]

How can you be confident Biggio didn't use steroids? He hit his career high in home runs at age 40! How many players do that? He could have taken steroids or HGH so he could stick around longer and reach 3,000 hits.

I meant he's the only player that I'm confident will get into the Hall, but I see your point. There's really no way to know, it's all about the perception that he was a leadoff hitter rather than a power hitter so the assumption is that he didn't use PEDs. Who knows, but the guy has 3,000 hits and no ties to cheating as far as I know.

 

[Austin]

I feel bad for Lee Smith. He used to be the all-time saves leader and many experts thought he'd be a shoo-in for the Hall 15 years ago. Now he probably doesn't have a shot.

 

[PadresFan86]

It would be a crime if Mcgriff gets in. He was a really good, but not great player.

He was a few home runs shy of 500

Sent from my HUAWEI-M920 using Sports Cards by Freedom Card Board.com

 

[kerryfan5]

He was a few home runs shy of 500

Sent from my HUAWEI-M920 using Sports Cards by Freedom Card Board.com

See Dave Kingman and Jose Canseco for players close to 500.

 

[trauty]

Biggio will get in and nobody else. Jack Morris will be hurt by all the new guys on the ballot and most everybody else will be left off enough ballots due to perceived steroid use. It won't be long until nobody gets elected for a few years in a row due to the logjam of deserving players who will be rightly/wrongly - depending on your view - left off the writer's ballots due to perceived steroid use. Eventually the whole system will need to be overhauled or the Hall of Fame will struggle to survive.

 

[matfanofold]

Biggio will get in and nobody else. Jack Morris will be hurt by all the new guys on the ballot and most everybody else will be left off enough ballots due to perceived steroid use. It won't be long until nobody gets elected for a few years in a row due to the logjam of deserving players who will be rightly/wrongly - depending on your view - left off the writer's ballots due to perceived steroid use. Eventually the whole system will need to be overhauled or the Hall of Fame will struggle to survive.

I'm not quite sure you know how (or why) the HOF opperates with quotes like the bold above...

 

[notjomommasclint]

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Craig Biggio
Sammy Sosa
Mike Piazza
Jeff Bagwell (3rd, 56.0%)
Lee Smith (11th, 50.6%)
Edgar Martinez (4th, 36.5%)
Mark McGwire (7th, 19.5%)
Rafael Palmeiro (3rd, 12.6%)

It's only controversial if those players are left out

 

[elmalo]

Whos to say Biggio, Raines, McGriff, Piazza, Bagwell, Schiiling, well, actually, hell, can you look at any of the names on that list and say that they werent juicing as well?

 

[elmalo]

See Dave Kingman and Jose Canseco for players close to 500.

McGriff was a much better hitter than Kingman was, those two shouldnt eve be mentioned in the same sentence.

 

[elmalo]

I really think it's unfair to keep guys out because of steroids and also hypocritical. I mean players were using amphetamines in the 60s up through 05'. In the 70s most club houses kept two coffee pots, one regular and one laced with amphetamines. Rose and Aaron confessed to using it and Mays and Stargell were linked to it. Aaron even admitted he used it when he was going through a bad slump in 68' to overcome his slump. Other players also were using cocaine such as Boyd and Raines. It's also interesting to note home run totals dropped more after amphetamines were banned in 05 then when steriods were banned. Also, unlike amphetamines, coke, etc where the effects of the drugs are immediate and require no work, steriods are not immediate and still require the person to put in a lot of work and effort to see any benefit. Now I'm not saying what they did was right but to me it's no worse then what players who are in the hall were doing back then. Only difference is there was no where near the media coverage back then as there is now.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Sports Cards by Freedom Card Board.com

Players were using hardcore steroids in the 60's, 70's and 80's as well.

 

[elmalo]

Why is it when a football player gets suspended he serves his sentence and you dont hear much about it after that yet when it happens in baseball people act like they murdered someone and they become pariahs?

 

[BunchOBull]

Why is it when a football player gets suspended he serves his sentence and you dont hear much about it after that yet when it happens in baseball people act like they murdered someone and they become pariahs?

Baseball is an individual stat driven sport; unless you look at specialty positions, football is a team evaluated sport, and historically most of the guys who get outed for use in FB aren't the specialty guys.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Whos to say Biggio, Raines, McGriff, Piazza, Bagwell, Schiiling, well, actually, hell, can you look at any of the names on that list and say that they werent juicing as well?

It doesn't matter because these guys either: 1) weren't dumb enough to have gotten caught AND/OR 2) didn't abuse PEDs to the same degree as those dopes that actually got caught.

This is absolutely the same way cheating and cheaters have always been perceived... why should PEDs be perceived differently?? There's no reason to think the issue is black or white.

 

[bcubs]

Biggio is the only name among the 1st timers who gets in. 3,000 hits is automatic, unless you're Rafael Palmeiro or ineligible. Piazza gets in eventually, but not on the 1st shot.

 

[PadresFan86]

See Dave Kingman and Jose Canseco for players close to 500.

McGriff has 493 homers and 1550 rbi's. Kingman has 442 homers and 1210 rbi's. Canseco is also an admitted PEDS user so that's why he won't go in. McGriff's lifetime batting average was about 50 points higher than Kingman's. McGriff seems to have been a far superior player than Kingman. McGriff also finish in the top 10 MVP voting 6 times, is a 5 time all star and has 3 silver slugger awards.

It's just funny that most people will say players are automatic locks if they hit 500 homers or 3,000 hits but McGriff can't get in because he's 7 homers short?

 

[Pastretta]

Biggio and Bags

 

[MansGame]

I also don't think McGriff is a HOFer... Just my opinion.