Do you think Jef Kent should be in the Hall of Fame?

[markakis8]

I compare Kent to Lee Smith.

Lee Smith had the most career saves for about 15 years and has no shot at the HOF.
As soon as Hoffman and Rivera passed him, no one cared about Smith.

The same will happen with Kent when Cano and other players pass him.

Kent's only HOF claim is the home run record, and it's a weak number at a position dominated by light-hitting, quick-reflexed great fielders.

As soon as Kent's record is surpassed, no one will give a rat's ass about him and his voting numbers will tank like Lee Smith's.

Again, apples to oranges. I see the point you are TRYING to make but you are comparing a guy who pitched 1 or 2 innings every 3rd game to a guy who played every day. On top of that, saves, even 10-15 years ago were not really a stat that solely got you into the HOF - not like HR can.

 

[craftysouthpaw]

First, props to Topnotchsy for some really good posts on this topic.

Kent is a tough one for me. I know a lot of people say if you have to think about it, he should be a no and I understand that thought process - but disagree with it. Some guys just need more time to view their careers through the right prism - especially coming off the PED era. The Hall was on to something with the 5 year waiting period and 20 total years to contemplate a guy's worthiness.

Kent was a great player and his candidacy should absoutely be weighed against other 2B. And the voters have really struggled with this position (and 3B) in my opinion. You may not agree with the merits of Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich, and Willie Randolph for the HOF but they were almost certainly better players than quite a few 2B already enshrined (Maz, Red, Evers, Fox to name a few). So the baseline is already really screwed up. That factor plus two others - one, the fact the voters have done a really bad job putting guys that played during the 70's and 80's into the proper context and two, the voters typically have not valued walks and defense appropriately IMO - have made this positiontough to stratify (all three of those factors really hurt the 3 guys I mentioned).

For me, it comes down to defense for Kent. I always viewed him as a butcher at 2nd and someone who really was more built for 1B or 3B. Because of this, I've always concluded he falls just short of the Hall. Some of the defensive numbers are more kind than my opinions and if I can be convinced he was roughly average or a little below average defensivley, I would likely change my mind. Ultimately it comes down to whether I believe someone who was one of the top 15 or so offensive players ever at his position belongs and as long as he wasn't a huge negative on defense, I think someone like that should get in. He certainly wouldn't lower the standards for 2B in the Hall (not that that is usually a valid argument).

 

[Austin]

Kent got only 15% of the vote today.
I think it's safe to say he will never be a Hall of Famer, unless the Veterans Committee elects him in a couple of decades.

 

[MansGame]

Kent got only 15% of the vote today.
I think it's safe to say he will never be a Hall of Famer, unless the Veterans Committee elects him in a couple of decades.

+1

 

[craftysouthpaw]

I don't agree. The ballot is so crowded that I think a lot of guys' percentages are suppressed.

Also, there have been several players that started with percentages in that ballpark that eventually got in - and that was when there wasn't such a backlog. I'm too lazy to do the research right now but it is out there.

Not using this as an argument for or against his induction, just that I wouldn't put too much stock in that 15% just yet. Same for Moose's ~20%.

 

[sportscardtheory]

I don't agree. The ballot is so crowded that I think a lot of guys' percentages are suppressed.

Also, there have been several players that started with percentages in that ballpark that eventually got in - and that was when there wasn't such a backlog. I'm too lazy to do the research right now but it is out there.

Not using this as an argument for or against his induction, just that I wouldn't put too much stock in that 15% just yet. Same for Moose's ~20%.

Exactly. He could sneak in on a down year after all these clear cut HOFers are enshrined in the next few years.

 

[aarne13]

First, props to Topnotchsy for some really good posts on this topic.

Kent is a tough one for me. I know a lot of people say if you have to think about it, he should be a no and I understand that thought process - but disagree with it. Some guys just need more time to view their careers through the right prism - especially coming off the PED era. The Hall was on to something with the 5 year waiting period and 20 total years to contemplate a guy's worthiness.

Kent was a great player and his candidacy should absoutely be weighed against other 2B. And the voters have really struggled with this position (and 3B) in my opinion. You may not agree with the merits of Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich, and Willie Randolph for the HOF but they were almost certainly better players than quite a few 2B already enshrined (Maz, Red, Evers, Fox to name a few). So the baseline is already really screwed up. That factor plus two others - one, the fact the voters have done a really bad job putting guys that played during the 70's and 80's into the proper context and two, the voters typically have not valued walks and defense appropriately IMO - have made this positiontough to stratify (all three of those factors really hurt the 3 guys I mentioned).

For me, it comes down to defense for Kent. I always viewed him as a butcher at 2nd and someone who really was more built for 1B or 3B. Because of this, I've always concluded he falls just short of the Hall. Some of the defensive numbers are more kind than my opinions and if I can be convinced he was roughly average or a little below average defensivley, I would likely change my mind. Ultimately it comes down to whether I believe someone who was one of the top 15 or so offensive players ever at his position belongs and as long as he wasn't a huge negative on defense, I think someone like that should get in. He certainly wouldn't lower the standards for 2B in the Hall (not that that is usually a valid argument).

Jeff Kent's defensive rating was avg. Some metrics had him slightly above 0 and some below. Basically a wash. FWIW Biggio had a dWar of -3.9 (bbref).

 

[MaineMule]

I don't agree. The ballot is so crowded that I think a lot of guys' percentages are suppressed.

Also, there have been several players that started with percentages in that ballpark that eventually got in - and that was when there wasn't such a backlog. I'm too lazy to do the research right now but it is out there.

Not using this as an argument for or against his induction, just that I wouldn't put too much stock in that 15% just yet. Same for Moose's ~20%.

Bert Blyleven......

Hall of Fame
1998 BBWAA (17.5%)
1999 BBWAA (14.1%)
2000 BBWAA (17.4%)
2001 BBWAA (23.5%)
2002 BBWAA (26.3%)
2003 BBWAA (29.2%)
2004 BBWAA (35.4%)
2005 BBWAA (40.9%)
2006 BBWAA (53.3%)
2007 BBWAA (47.7%)
2008 BBWAA (61.9%)
2009 BBWAA (62.7%)
2010 BBWAA (74.2%)
2011 BBWAA (79.7%)
Selected to HOF in 2011 by BBWAA

 

[henderson939]

There needs to be some kind of change with the voting system and they need to do something about the steroid guys getting in and be done with it already. How does a guy like Albert Belle not get in the Hall on his first try? Cause he was an A-hole? So What. Piazza? Any proof of steroid use? None that the public is aware of. These guys put up the numbers and then some. Especially Belle. And after looking at it more closely, Jeff Kent should get in. If I am picking a team today and had a choice between Biggio or Kent in my line up and at second, its a no brainer in my opinion.

 

[elmalo]

I wold take Lou Whitaker over Jeff Kent at 2b any day of the week. Whitaker isnt in.

 

[gmsieb]

Maybe sweet lou and kent are both better than biggio then.

 

[MansGame]

Did I say Kent wouldn't sniff the front porch of the HOF already?


---
Buying Albert Belle cards! PM me!

 

[henderson939]

I wold take Lou Whitaker over Jeff Kent at 2b any day of the week. Whitaker isnt in.

Kent beats Whitaker in just about every category offensively by a decent margin.

 

[gmsieb]

Did I say Kent wouldn't sniff the front porch of the HOF already?


---
Buying Albert Belle cards! PM me!

I made a thread for you. Look for crazy HOF news.

 

[fkw]

Kent is as deserving as Glavine, if Not More

Glavine was the Whitey Ford of the 1990-2000s

10 season giving up more hits than innings pitched.. only 1 season with a sub 1.10 WHIP, a career ERA closer to 4 than 3 and he played in the NL his whole career...
like Ford, Glavine W/L record was a product of his winning team...
If Ford or Glavine played on Pittsbugh they would have struggled to be a .500 pitcher...

 

[Austin]

Glavine was the Whitey Ford of the 1990-2000s
like Ford, Glavine W/L record was a product of his winning team...
If Ford or Glavine played on Pittsbugh they would have struggled to be a .500 pitcher...

What an incredibly ignorant thing to write about Whitey Ford.
He had a career 2.75 era, which is the lowest of any starting pitcher after World War II.
He just happened to pitch for the Yankees.
With an era that amazingly low (which is almost entirely an individual stat, not team-based), Ford would have been a Hall of Famer on any team.
Saying Ford would have been a .500 pitcher on another team, is like saying Pedro Martinez or Greg Maddux were mediocre.

 

[Dmscards]

Kent is as deserving as Glavine, if Not More

Glavine was the Whitey Ford of the 1990-2000s

10 season giving up more hits than innings pitched.. only 1 season with a sub 1.10 WHIP, a career ERA closer to 4 than 3 and he played in the NL his whole career...
like Ford, Glavine W/L record was a product of his winning team...
If Ford or Glavine played on Pittsbugh they would have struggled to be a .500 pitcher...

Roberto Alomar is as deserving as Kent, if not more.

 

[elmalo]

Kent beats Whitaker in just about every category offensively by a decent margin.

Yes, and I would still take Whitaker over him.

 

[Moonlight Graham]

Coors Field helped Helton's fielding...

 

[UMich92]

Kent beats Whitaker in just about every category offensively by a decent margin.

The biggest exception is bWAR where Whitaker's 74.8 far outpaces Kent's 55.2.