Does it bother anyone else?

[Viking4Alpha]

Brings me to another point.. Can anyone here prove 100% without a doubt that the material in your cards is in fact game used and beyond that, game used by said player?

Can you prove otherwise?

 

[predatorkj]

I'm curious though.. and just something I was thinking about on the slow car ride home thanks to the snow and stupid drivers.

What if I or anyone, any large corperation, decided to go out and buy up to 10(ten) t206 Honus Wagners.. cut them into 4 equal pieces each and then glue them to a baseball bat? How would the baseball card hobby feel about that? You could have a game used bat with a piece of rare t206 honus on it, image how neat that would be! Let's do the same with some Pujols Chrome rookies.. buy up a bunch, chop em up and glue pieces to a jersey, man you could walk around wearing a jersey that has a genuine piece of Pujols Bowman Chrome rookie on it, HOT! Mantle 52's would be even better huh, no wait that UD card with the Griffey and Mantle dual sigs, chop that in half and glue each one to a seperate jersey, awesome! What if we took the Buster Possey(sp?) *I'm not a prospector* Sterling 1/1 and chopped that bad boy up.. would the hobby cheer or jeer? Talk about bringing you closer to the hobby, you can wear it around town or while washing the car.. and have a piece of that special card with you. *Yes that paragraph was loaded with sarcasm.

In all reality I bet the hobby would balk at that and say look how dumb that is, destroying those precious cards, what a waste of money, etc. I know I'm by far kicking the crap out of a dead horse by now but eh.. whatever. The hobby is what it is and it's tough to stay in and support something that I feel is so wrong but I do like the part of the hobby that I agree with, base cards, inserts/parallels, autos. Problem is I know there's no way for the hobby to stop drooling over tiny bits of material in cards..

What your implying here is a tad different than the GU card market is.The GU card idea is not a bad idea.From what I understand your opposed to chopping up really rare items because they should be preserved.The point is...not all of the items will be used.There is still plenty out there to be had.Just not an endless supply.Which is why they do need to limit to what they make of each player.Especially the older ones long gone like Ruth and such.Eventually they will run out of things to buy and then no more cards of that player for a long long time until somebody finally decides to sell their collection of GU items.But lets face it...you can get a crap load of cards from one bat and I have not really seen too many high numbered Ruth relic cards.But with the newer players they go through bats and jersey's like its nothing.Thats why the market is watered down a lot.And one has to wonder how many actual GU items they can get out of a single bat or jersey versus the billion parallels they have out now of newer players.

Either way...I do not think its as bad as you make it out to be.Sure...there are a ton of historical items put into baseball cards but then again...people can own pieces of them.To me...thats a little bit better than just one private collector hoarding stuff I will never even see.What good is that for the hobby or the history of the game?And last time I checked...cooperstown had a bunch of stuff on display.

 

[EmeraldRain]

I guess I need to prove why I think some of it's not legit, but those saying it's all 100% legit can just say well.. cause it is.. where's your proof?

There is tons more examples but here's a small example of what I'm talking about Link

Here's a bat chip..

This is what is in essentialy all gu bat cards, so can you tell me who used it, why not? Was it Ted Williams or was it Jose Vidro or someone else entirely, there is NO way to know for sure is there? oh wait, we have that trusty ol COA on the back that claims it's from a certain player.. yea, that is what is rock solid even though by looking at the above piece there is no discernable way to tell what bat it came from. What if I said it is Ted Williams.. that's my coa, I'm gonna say it's Ted, that must make it a Ted bat piece. COA's are garbage, what about all those COA's made up by the J. DiMaggio company.. rock solid right?

Can you prove without a shadow of a doubt that the 2 patch pieces in that Jordan card did in fact come from an actual game used Michael Jordan jersey, can you prove it's not from a Luc Longley jersey? If you had the whole jersey, you could easily figure out if it's an actual gamer and if it was used but now.. crap shoot or relying solely on 1 single entity that is only out to take as much of your money as possible, hmm.


How is my idea any different from the gu card market, you are destroying pieces of one hobby to promote another regardless if it's vintage or not. I am opposed to chopping up of ANY game used items but esp. vintage. This hobby was booming well before this trend came along and it could survive long after if it chose to do so.

As for private collectors hoarding stuff.. look in the mirror, your bagwell collection is a perfect example, as is every other collector on here. I can't enjoy it while it's in your posession.. you must break it up so I can have some of it. That is the same type of greed. A SWAT team should go to Wossa's house and gather his whole collection and redistribute it, it's not fair he gets to hoard stuff even if he has the money to do so, shame on him for hoarding stuff he likes! His collection as a whole is the only 1 out there, but I want to own parts of it, so break it down(chop it up) so we can all have some of it.

If anyone can tell me who "reportedly" used the above bat chip and tell me how you know that player used it, you are my hero and I'll send you a prize.

 

[Viking4Alpha]

Can you prove without a shadow of a doubt that the 2 patch pieces in that Jordan card did in fact come from an actual game used Michael Jordan jersey, can you prove it's not from a Luc Longley jersey? If you had the whole jersey, you could easily figure out if it's an actual gamer and if it was used but now.. crap shoot or relying solely on 1 single entity that is only out to take as much of your money as possible, hmm.

I say again, can you prove otherwise?

 

[George K]

I say again, can you prove otherwise?

There are enough classic and key jerseys and bats that are never gonna get cut up. Besides, what is the huge problem with a small percent of this stuff being shared with the fans via cuts or whatever other methods. What we should be sweating is that it is more important to perserve the actual legacy of the very game itself. Who's gonna care for this material stuff if there isn't a new generation of fans to play baseball or even view it or remotely interested in its history or importance. That to me is the most important above everything else.

 

[wideright]

Can you prove without a shadow of a doubt that the 2 patch pieces in that Jordan card did in fact come from an actual game used Michael Jordan jersey, can you prove it's not from a Luc Longley jersey? If you had the whole jersey, you could easily figure out if it's an actual gamer and if it was used but now.. crap shoot or relying solely on 1 single entity that is only out to take as much of your money as possible, hmm.

I say again, can you prove otherwise?

Why should EmeraldRain, or any other collector for that matter, have to prove such a thing? We aren't the ones putting COA's on cards saying they are game-used by said player... we aren't the ones "manufacturing" and "selling"... SELLING... taking other people's money... and claiming they have been worn, in a game, by that player.

George K, I agree with your statement completely. But what I don't want to happen is to have a legacy of kids, my kids, collecting cards and having to find out years later that the GU cards they and their dads/moms collected of their favorite players, legends, heroes, teams, etc. were frauds, lies and fakes. Weren't these supposed to "get us closer to the game"? Is it the game we are getting closer to, or is our wallets THEY are getting closer to?

I'm sure we'll never hear the stories of how a production run ran short of swatches of a player because a manager miscounted, and how they grabbed a jersey from a "reputable" dealer because it was cheap and quick and wouldn't delay the release. Or how Johnny the dealer got a bunch of game-used stuff from his cousin Louie the equipment manager of X team. I'm sure nobody could trace any particular piece of memorabilia swatch back to the original owner.

So I ask you this.... If we can't trace it back without a shadow of a doubt, how do we know what is glued to that cardboard? Why is this any different from buying the whole game-used jersey? Wouldn't you want to do your homework before buying the whole piece of memorabilia? How come nobody is doing the homework when buying a small piece of it?

I'll tell you why. Because they cover their tracks, bury documents, shut doors, not answer phones... etc. It's the way the game is/has been played for years. Yet, collectors continue paying BIG BUCKS to blindly accept what it is they have no idea what they're getting.

 

[Viking4Alpha]

Can you prove without a shadow of a doubt that the 2 patch pieces in that Jordan card did in fact come from an actual game used Michael Jordan jersey, can you prove it's not from a Luc Longley jersey? If you had the whole jersey, you could easily figure out if it's an actual gamer and if it was used but now.. crap shoot or relying solely on 1 single entity that is only out to take as much of your money as possible, hmm.

I say again, can you prove otherwise?

Why should EmeraldRain, or any other collector for that matter, have to prove such a thing? We aren't the ones putting COA's on cards saying they are game-used by said player... we aren't the ones "manufacturing" and "selling"... SELLING... taking other people's money... and claiming they have been worn, in a game, by that player.

George K, I agree with your statement completely. But what I don't want to happen is to have a legacy of kids, my kids, collecting cards and having to find out years later that the GU cards they and their dads/moms collected of their favorite players, legends, heroes, teams, etc. were frauds, lies and fakes. Weren't these supposed to "get us closer to the game"? Is it the game we are getting closer to, or is our wallets THEY are getting closer to?

I'm sure we'll never hear the stories of how a production run ran short of swatches of a player because a manager miscounted, and how they grabbed a jersey from a "reputable" dealer because it was cheap and quick and wouldn't delay the release. Or how Johnny the dealer got a bunch of game-used stuff from his cousin Louie the equipment manager of X team. I'm sure nobody could trace any particular piece of memorabilia swatch back to the original owner.

So I ask you this.... If we can't trace it back without a shadow of a doubt, how do we know what is glued to that cardboard? Why is this any different from buying the whole game-used jersey? Wouldn't you want to do your homework before buying the whole piece of memorabilia? How come nobody is doing the homework when buying a small piece of it?

I'll tell you why. Because they cover their tracks, bury documents, shut doors, not answer phones... etc. It's the way the game is/has been played for years. Yet, collectors continue paying BIG BUCKS to blindly accept what it is they have no idea what they're getting.

Calm down guy. Man are you easy to rattle, and my message wasn't even directed at you.

My point is, chill out with the conspiracy theories. Until you can actually prove the memorabilia is "fake", then there isn't a "problem".

I have a real SIMPLE solution for you. Don't buy any of it and continue to watch your X-Files shows. More for me.

By the way, I'd be willing to bet that more than half of the cards in your sig are "ghost-signed". Just sayin... The "truth" shall set us free!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[wideright]

Can you prove without a shadow of a doubt that the 2 patch pieces in that Jordan card did in fact come from an actual game used Michael Jordan jersey, can you prove it's not from a Luc Longley jersey? If you had the whole jersey, you could easily figure out if it's an actual gamer and if it was used but now.. crap shoot or relying solely on 1 single entity that is only out to take as much of your money as possible, hmm.

I say again, can you prove otherwise?

Why should EmeraldRain, or any other collector for that matter, have to prove such a thing? We aren't the ones putting COA's on cards saying they are game-used by said player... we aren't the ones "manufacturing" and "selling"... SELLING... taking other people's money... and claiming they have been worn, in a game, by that player.

George K, I agree with your statement completely. But what I don't want to happen is to have a legacy of kids, my kids, collecting cards and having to find out years later that the GU cards they and their dads/moms collected of their favorite players, legends, heroes, teams, etc. were frauds, lies and fakes. Weren't these supposed to "get us closer to the game"? Is it the game we are getting closer to, or is our wallets THEY are getting closer to?

I'm sure we'll never hear the stories of how a production run ran short of swatches of a player because a manager miscounted, and how they grabbed a jersey from a "reputable" dealer because it was cheap and quick and wouldn't delay the release. Or how Johnny the dealer got a bunch of game-used stuff from his cousin Louie the equipment manager of X team. I'm sure nobody could trace any particular piece of memorabilia swatch back to the original owner.

So I ask you this.... If we can't trace it back without a shadow of a doubt, how do we know what is glued to that cardboard? Why is this any different from buying the whole game-used jersey? Wouldn't you want to do your homework before buying the whole piece of memorabilia? How come nobody is doing the homework when buying a small piece of it?

I'll tell you why. Because they cover their tracks, bury documents, shut doors, not answer phones... etc. It's the way the game is/has been played for years. Yet, collectors continue paying BIG BUCKS to blindly accept what it is they have no idea what they're getting.

Calm down guy. Man are you easy to rattle, and my message wasn't even directed at you.

My point is, chill out with the conspiracy theories. Until you can actually prove the memorabilia is "fake", then there isn't a "problem".

I have a real SIMPLE solution for you. Don't buy any of it and continue to watch your X-Files shows. More for me.

By the way, I'd be willing to bet that more than half of the cards in your sig are "ghost-signed". Just sayin... The "truth" shall set us free!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry man, wasn't directed at you personally. I'm not into conspiracy theories... just all the fakes, forgeries, and fraud stories circulating these days has me thinking about it too much. And you may be right about the ghost signings. Who knows, right??!?

 

[predatorkj]

I guess I need to prove why I think some of it's not legit, but those saying it's all 100% legit can just say well.. cause it is.. where's your proof?

There is tons more examples but here's a small example of what I'm talking about Link

Here's a bat chip..

This is what is in essentialy all gu bat cards, so can you tell me who used it, why not? Was it Ted Williams or was it Jose Vidro or someone else entirely, there is NO way to know for sure is there? oh wait, we have that trusty ol COA on the back that claims it's from a certain player.. yea, that is what is rock solid even though by looking at the above piece there is no discernable way to tell what bat it came from. What if I said it is Ted Williams.. that's my coa, I'm gonna say it's Ted, that must make it a Ted bat piece. COA's are garbage, what about all those COA's made up by the J. DiMaggio company.. rock solid right?

Can you prove without a shadow of a doubt that the 2 patch pieces in that Jordan card did in fact come from an actual game used Michael Jordan jersey, can you prove it's not from a Luc Longley jersey? If you had the whole jersey, you could easily figure out if it's an actual gamer and if it was used but now.. crap shoot or relying solely on 1 single entity that is only out to take as much of your money as possible, hmm.


How is my idea any different from the gu card market, you are destroying pieces of one hobby to promote another regardless if it's vintage or not. I am opposed to chopping up of ANY game used items but esp. vintage. This hobby was booming well before this trend came along and it could survive long after if it chose to do so.

As for private collectors hoarding stuff.. look in the mirror, your bagwell collection is a perfect example, as is every other collector on here. I can't enjoy it while it's in your posession.. you must break it up so I can have some of it. That is the same type of greed. A SWAT team should go to Wossa's house and gather his whole collection and redistribute it, it's not fair he gets to hoard stuff even if he has the money to do so, shame on him for hoarding stuff he likes! His collection as a whole is the only 1 out there, but I want to own parts of it, so break it down(chop it up) so we can all have some of it.

If anyone can tell me who "reportedly" used the above bat chip and tell me how you know that player used it, you are my hero and I'll send you a prize.

Dude...I only own 1/1 Bagwell card and two printing plates.Other than that I own nothing serial numbered less than /5.You have plenty of chances to own what I own.Your point will not work here.

I was trying to say that if there was a private collector who had a bunch of whole and uncut GU items sitting in an attic or somewhere in his house...then he is keeping that history to himself.So what different is that than the card companies getting one and doing the same?You can never own it and never see it on display or if the compaines get ahold of one you can own quite a few of them if you can win them on ebay or buy them at shows.

The way your going on...you act like every single thing that is GU is cut up almost immediately.

 

[predatorkj]

Can you prove without a shadow of a doubt that the 2 patch pieces in that Jordan card did in fact come from an actual game used Michael Jordan jersey, can you prove it's not from a Luc Longley jersey? If you had the whole jersey, you could easily figure out if it's an actual gamer and if it was used but now.. crap shoot or relying solely on 1 single entity that is only out to take as much of your money as possible, hmm.

I say again, can you prove otherwise?

Why should EmeraldRain, or any other collector for that matter, have to prove such a thing? We aren't the ones putting COA's on cards saying they are game-used by said player... we aren't the ones "manufacturing" and "selling"... SELLING... taking other people's money... and claiming they have been worn, in a game, by that player.

George K, I agree with your statement completely. But what I don't want to happen is to have a legacy of kids, my kids, collecting cards and having to find out years later that the GU cards they and their dads/moms collected of their favorite players, legends, heroes, teams, etc. were frauds, lies and fakes. Weren't these supposed to "get us closer to the game"? Is it the game we are getting closer to, or is our wallets THEY are getting closer to?

I'm sure we'll never hear the stories of how a production run ran short of swatches of a player because a manager miscounted, and how they grabbed a jersey from a "reputable" dealer because it was cheap and quick and wouldn't delay the release. Or how Johnny the dealer got a bunch of game-used stuff from his cousin Louie the equipment manager of X team. I'm sure nobody could trace any particular piece of memorabilia swatch back to the original owner.

So I ask you this.... If we can't trace it back without a shadow of a doubt, how do we know what is glued to that cardboard? Why is this any different from buying the whole game-used jersey? Wouldn't you want to do your homework before buying the whole piece of memorabilia? How come nobody is doing the homework when buying a small piece of it?

I'll tell you why. Because they cover their tracks, bury documents, shut doors, not answer phones... etc. It's the way the game is/has been played for years. Yet, collectors continue paying BIG BUCKS to blindly accept what it is they have no idea what they're getting.

Until the companies are made to show proof...it really is our problem and not theirs.Besides...nobody would take you seriously unless you had some valid proof.I have a few jersey cards that appear to be the wrong color and look like they came from a whole different team altogether.A team, mind you, that the player in question never even played for.But at worst..that could be chalked up to a mistake on their behalf.You couldn't prove they ran out of jersey pieces for the guy and just said screw it.

The point is...I think there is a lot of skepticism out there about the GU market these days.That being said...I think a lot of people buy the items knowing this.I know I do.All you need to remember is your buying the card not anything else.The GU and low numbering of cards make them more costly and more valuable but your still buying a card.I don't consider myself as having a big actual GU collection because truth be told my only GU item is a Ty Wiggington baseball bat I know is GU.Other than that and my auto'd memorabilia...I have a whole lot of baseball cards.And nothing more.As long as you understand what you are buying...then where is the problem?


But seriously...the only time any of these companies will ever be outed is if somebody who knows for a fact something is not real ends up coming forward.Maybe a player of somebody like that or one of the buyers for the companies.Other than that...collectors can speculate all they want to.

Oh...and before GU...this hobby was dead.Gu and autos brought it back.Card shops had started dropping like flies and people did not collect as much as they once did.I know.I myself was a part of that populace.

 

[1st4040]

with all the plain grey and plain white swatch cards year in and out who's to say they aren't just buying the material by the yard from the manufacturer and cutting the swatches from it? nobody here would be able to prove otherwise except for occasional staining which even that they could just smudge some dirt over said material. I for one don't believe that every swatch in every GU'ed card is from a real game worn and used jersey.. let alone one of my exact player.. especially when he hasn't played since 03 and yet they are still producing cards with swatches from Oakland, Tampa Bay on his various cards. it would be slightly more believable if he was playing for said team the year the cards are produced.. but its more like a novelty to have these pieces in the cards to me. i like the visual appeal of multi color patches as much as the next guy.. doesn't mean its from a legit worn jersey at all.

 

[predatorkj]

.. but its more like a novelty to have these pieces in the cards to me. i like the visual appeal of multi color patches as much as the next guy.. doesn't mean its from a legit worn jersey at all.

Bingo!

Thats pretty much how I feel about it these days.

 

[wideright]

Can you prove without a shadow of a doubt that the 2 patch pieces in that Jordan card did in fact come from an actual game used Michael Jordan jersey, can you prove it's not from a Luc Longley jersey? If you had the whole jersey, you could easily figure out if it's an actual gamer and if it was used but now.. crap shoot or relying solely on 1 single entity that is only out to take as much of your money as possible, hmm.

I say again, can you prove otherwise?

Why should EmeraldRain, or any other collector for that matter, have to prove such a thing? We aren't the ones putting COA's on cards saying they are game-used by said player... we aren't the ones "manufacturing" and "selling"... SELLING... taking other people's money... and claiming they have been worn, in a game, by that player.

George K, I agree with your statement completely. But what I don't want to happen is to have a legacy of kids, my kids, collecting cards and having to find out years later that the GU cards they and their dads/moms collected of their favorite players, legends, heroes, teams, etc. were frauds, lies and fakes. Weren't these supposed to "get us closer to the game"? Is it the game we are getting closer to, or is our wallets THEY are getting closer to?

I'm sure we'll never hear the stories of how a production run ran short of swatches of a player because a manager miscounted, and how they grabbed a jersey from a "reputable" dealer because it was cheap and quick and wouldn't delay the release. Or how Johnny the dealer got a bunch of game-used stuff from his cousin Louie the equipment manager of X team. I'm sure nobody could trace any particular piece of memorabilia swatch back to the original owner.

So I ask you this.... If we can't trace it back without a shadow of a doubt, how do we know what is glued to that cardboard? Why is this any different from buying the whole game-used jersey? Wouldn't you want to do your homework before buying the whole piece of memorabilia? How come nobody is doing the homework when buying a small piece of it?

I'll tell you why. Because they cover their tracks, bury documents, shut doors, not answer phones... etc. It's the way the game is/has been played for years. Yet, collectors continue paying BIG BUCKS to blindly accept what it is they have no idea what they're getting.

Until the companies are made to show proof...it really is our problem and not theirs.Besides...nobody would take you seriously unless you had some valid proof.I have a few jersey cards that appear to be the wrong color and look like they came from a whole different team altogether.A team, mind you, that the player in question never even played for.But at worst..that could be chalked up to a mistake on their behalf.You couldn't prove they ran out of jersey pieces for the guy and just said screw it.

The point is...I think there is a lot of skepticism out there about the GU market these days.That being said...I think a lot of people buy the items knowing this.I know I do.All you need to remember is your buying the card not anything else.The GU and low numbering of cards make them more costly and more valuable but your still buying a card.I don't consider myself as having a big actual GU collection because truth be told my only GU item is a Ty Wiggington baseball bat I know is GU.Other than that and my auto'd memorabilia...I have a whole lot of baseball cards.And nothing more.As long as you understand what you are buying...then where is the problem?

But seriously...the only time any of these companies will ever be outed is if somebody who knows for a fact something is not real ends up coming forward.Maybe a player of somebody like that or one of the buyers for the companies.Other than that...collectors can speculate all they want to.

Oh...and before GU...this hobby was dead.Gu and autos brought it back.Card shops had started dropping like flies and people did not collect as much as they once did.I know.I myself was a part of that populace.

I'm not following what you mean by what I bolded above. You mean that the GU part, which is the essence of why the card exists, is not important? All I'm buying is a 2.5x3.5 inch piece of cardboard with some glue and a piece of cloth or wood attached to it? The significance of that piece of cloth or wood is no longer important?

But the thing is, is I want to understand what I'm buying. That IS the problem. I don't understand the inaccuracies, the errors, the reports of athletes making mistakes... it's my money and if I am interested in buying a card that I am being led to believe is a game-used card of that player, I don't think it's too much to ask that the COA actually mean what it states, without a shadow of a doubt.

I'll end my input in this by saying I am a skeptic and will not trust the authenticity of GU cards without further proof. That's my story and I'm sticking to it

 

[Joewoowoo]

Can you prove without a shadow of a doubt that the 2 patch pieces in that Jordan card did in fact come from an actual game used Michael Jordan jersey, can you prove it's not from a Luc Longley jersey? If you had the whole jersey, you could easily figure out if it's an actual gamer and if it was used but now.. crap shoot or relying solely on 1 single entity that is only out to take as much of your money as possible, hmm.

I say again, can you prove otherwise?

Why should EmeraldRain, or any other collector for that matter, have to prove such a thing? We aren't the ones putting COA's on cards saying they are game-used by said player... we aren't the ones "manufacturing" and "selling"... SELLING... taking other people's money... and claiming they have been worn, in a game, by that player.

George K, I agree with your statement completely. But what I don't want to happen is to have a legacy of kids, my kids, collecting cards and having to find out years later that the GU cards they and their dads/moms collected of their favorite players, legends, heroes, teams, etc. were frauds, lies and fakes. Weren't these supposed to "get us closer to the game"? Is it the game we are getting closer to, or is our wallets THEY are getting closer to?

I'm sure we'll never hear the stories of how a production run ran short of swatches of a player because a manager miscounted, and how they grabbed a jersey from a "reputable" dealer because it was cheap and quick and wouldn't delay the release. Or how Johnny the dealer got a bunch of game-used stuff from his cousin Louie the equipment manager of X team. I'm sure nobody could trace any particular piece of memorabilia swatch back to the original owner.

So I ask you this.... If we can't trace it back without a shadow of a doubt, how do we know what is glued to that cardboard? Why is this any different from buying the whole game-used jersey? Wouldn't you want to do your homework before buying the whole piece of memorabilia? How come nobody is doing the homework when buying a small piece of it?

I'll tell you why. Because they cover their tracks, bury documents, shut doors, not answer phones... etc. It's the way the game is/has been played for years. Yet, collectors continue paying BIG BUCKS to blindly accept what it is they have no idea what they're getting.

Wide right the text in red is dead on , you said what I was thinking . Also all game used should have some kind of validation to when and where it was used , otherwise you can have some bums swatch in your Babe Ruth GU jersey card and we will never know. I wish just one person would have there Ruth swatch DNA tested, age verification, just to see what the results are , I would be very interested in the results. good job people alot of great comments here. I have to say the person who said lets keep cutting it all up until its all gone is a ARSE.

 

[predatorkj]

Can you prove without a shadow of a doubt that the 2 patch pieces in that Jordan card did in fact come from an actual game used Michael Jordan jersey, can you prove it's not from a Luc Longley jersey? If you had the whole jersey, you could easily figure out if it's an actual gamer and if it was used but now.. crap shoot or relying solely on 1 single entity that is only out to take as much of your money as possible, hmm.

I say again, can you prove otherwise?

Why should EmeraldRain, or any other collector for that matter, have to prove such a thing? We aren't the ones putting COA's on cards saying they are game-used by said player... we aren't the ones "manufacturing" and "selling"... SELLING... taking other people's money... and claiming they have been worn, in a game, by that player.

George K, I agree with your statement completely. But what I don't want to happen is to have a legacy of kids, my kids, collecting cards and having to find out years later that the GU cards they and their dads/moms collected of their favorite players, legends, heroes, teams, etc. were frauds, lies and fakes. Weren't these supposed to "get us closer to the game"? Is it the game we are getting closer to, or is our wallets THEY are getting closer to?

I'm sure we'll never hear the stories of how a production run ran short of swatches of a player because a manager miscounted, and how they grabbed a jersey from a "reputable" dealer because it was cheap and quick and wouldn't delay the release. Or how Johnny the dealer got a bunch of game-used stuff from his cousin Louie the equipment manager of X team. I'm sure nobody could trace any particular piece of memorabilia swatch back to the original owner.

So I ask you this.... If we can't trace it back without a shadow of a doubt, how do we know what is glued to that cardboard? Why is this any different from buying the whole game-used jersey? Wouldn't you want to do your homework before buying the whole piece of memorabilia? How come nobody is doing the homework when buying a small piece of it?

I'll tell you why. Because they cover their tracks, bury documents, shut doors, not answer phones... etc. It's the way the game is/has been played for years. Yet, collectors continue paying BIG BUCKS to blindly accept what it is they have no idea what they're getting.

Until the companies are made to show proof...it really is our problem and not theirs.Besides...nobody would take you seriously unless you had some valid proof.I have a few jersey cards that appear to be the wrong color and look like they came from a whole different team altogether.A team, mind you, that the player in question never even played for.But at worst..that could be chalked up to a mistake on their behalf.You couldn't prove they ran out of jersey pieces for the guy and just said screw it.

The point is...I think there is a lot of skepticism out there about the GU market these days.That being said...I think a lot of people buy the items knowing this.I know I do.All you need to remember is your buying the card not anything else.The GU and low numbering of cards make them more costly and more valuable but your still buying a card.I don't consider myself as having a big actual GU collection because truth be told my only GU item is a Ty Wiggington baseball bat I know is GU.Other than that and my auto'd memorabilia...I have a whole lot of baseball cards.And nothing more.As long as you understand what you are buying...then where is the problem?

But seriously...the only time any of these companies will ever be outed is if somebody who knows for a fact something is not real ends up coming forward.Maybe a player of somebody like that or one of the buyers for the companies.Other than that...collectors can speculate all they want to.

Oh...and before GU...this hobby was dead.Gu and autos brought it back.Card shops had started dropping like flies and people did not collect as much as they once did.I know.I myself was a part of that populace.

I'm not following what you mean by what I bolded above. You mean that the GU part, which is the essence of why the card exists, is not important? All I'm buying is a 2.5x3.5 inch piece of cardboard with some glue and a piece of cloth or wood attached to it? The significance of that piece of cloth or wood is no longer important?

But the thing is, is I want to understand what I'm buying. That IS the problem. I don't understand the inaccuracies, the errors, the reports of athletes making mistakes... it's my money and if I am interested in buying a card that I am being led to believe is a game-used card of that player, I don't think it's too much to ask that the COA actually mean what it states, without a shadow of a doubt.

I'll end my input in this by saying I am a skeptic and will not trust the authenticity of GU cards without further proof. That's my story and I'm sticking to it

My point was that your buying a card.The card may contain a jersey swatch that may or may not be really used by whatever the player on it is.My point is you need to remember that when your buying the card.Either way its probably a rare or numbered card.Does it give the company an excuse to include a non game used item?No.But since you and I both know that this might be the case...that the item may or may not be game used after all...you need to buy them with such a situation in mind.That way...if it ever does come to light that that particular card is not legit...you paid for it knowingly and with that possibility in mind.At least it will give you a little peace of mind.

 

[wideright]

Can you prove without a shadow of a doubt that the 2 patch pieces in that Jordan card did in fact come from an actual game used Michael Jordan jersey, can you prove it's not from a Luc Longley jersey? If you had the whole jersey, you could easily figure out if it's an actual gamer and if it was used but now.. crap shoot or relying solely on 1 single entity that is only out to take as much of your money as possible, hmm.

I say again, can you prove otherwise?

Why should EmeraldRain, or any other collector for that matter, have to prove such a thing? We aren't the ones putting COA's on cards saying they are game-used by said player... we aren't the ones "manufacturing" and "selling"... SELLING... taking other people's money... and claiming they have been worn, in a game, by that player.

George K, I agree with your statement completely. But what I don't want to happen is to have a legacy of kids, my kids, collecting cards and having to find out years later that the GU cards they and their dads/moms collected of their favorite players, legends, heroes, teams, etc. were frauds, lies and fakes. Weren't these supposed to "get us closer to the game"? Is it the game we are getting closer to, or is our wallets THEY are getting closer to?

I'm sure we'll never hear the stories of how a production run ran short of swatches of a player because a manager miscounted, and how they grabbed a jersey from a "reputable" dealer because it was cheap and quick and wouldn't delay the release. Or how Johnny the dealer got a bunch of game-used stuff from his cousin Louie the equipment manager of X team. I'm sure nobody could trace any particular piece of memorabilia swatch back to the original owner.

So I ask you this.... If we can't trace it back without a shadow of a doubt, how do we know what is glued to that cardboard? Why is this any different from buying the whole game-used jersey? Wouldn't you want to do your homework before buying the whole piece of memorabilia? How come nobody is doing the homework when buying a small piece of it?

I'll tell you why. Because they cover their tracks, bury documents, shut doors, not answer phones... etc. It's the way the game is/has been played for years. Yet, collectors continue paying BIG BUCKS to blindly accept what it is they have no idea what they're getting.

Wide right the text in red is dead on , you said what I was thinking . Also all game used should have some kind of validation to when and where it was used , otherwise you can have some bums swatch in your Babe Ruth GU jersey card and we will never know. I wish just one person would have there Ruth swatch DNA tested, age verification, just to see what the results are , I would be very interested in the results. good job people alot of great comments here. I have to say the person who said lets keep cutting it all up until its all gone is a ARSE.

You've been thanked And I would love to see the DNA test take place too. In my heart of hearts I do hope things are the way they should be, but I can't help being skeptical.

 

[moxacaine]

With all the Autos that get put on the wrong cards by UD i would suspect they mess up the game used items even more.

 

[predatorkj]

Can you prove without a shadow of a doubt that the 2 patch pieces in that Jordan card did in fact come from an actual game used Michael Jordan jersey, can you prove it's not from a Luc Longley jersey? If you had the whole jersey, you could easily figure out if it's an actual gamer and if it was used but now.. crap shoot or relying solely on 1 single entity that is only out to take as much of your money as possible, hmm.

I say again, can you prove otherwise?

Why should EmeraldRain, or any other collector for that matter, have to prove such a thing? We aren't the ones putting COA's on cards saying they are game-used by said player... we aren't the ones "manufacturing" and "selling"... SELLING... taking other people's money... and claiming they have been worn, in a game, by that player.

George K, I agree with your statement completely. But what I don't want to happen is to have a legacy of kids, my kids, collecting cards and having to find out years later that the GU cards they and their dads/moms collected of their favorite players, legends, heroes, teams, etc. were frauds, lies and fakes. Weren't these supposed to "get us closer to the game"? Is it the game we are getting closer to, or is our wallets THEY are getting closer to?

I'm sure we'll never hear the stories of how a production run ran short of swatches of a player because a manager miscounted, and how they grabbed a jersey from a "reputable" dealer because it was cheap and quick and wouldn't delay the release. Or how Johnny the dealer got a bunch of game-used stuff from his cousin Louie the equipment manager of X team. I'm sure nobody could trace any particular piece of memorabilia swatch back to the original owner.

So I ask you this.... If we can't trace it back without a shadow of a doubt, how do we know what is glued to that cardboard? Why is this any different from buying the whole game-used jersey? Wouldn't you want to do your homework before buying the whole piece of memorabilia? How come nobody is doing the homework when buying a small piece of it?

I'll tell you why. Because they cover their tracks, bury documents, shut doors, not answer phones... etc. It's the way the game is/has been played for years. Yet, collectors continue paying BIG BUCKS to blindly accept what it is they have no idea what they're getting.

Wide right the text in red is dead on , you said what I was thinking . Also all game used should have some kind of validation to when and where it was used , otherwise you can have some bums swatch in your Babe Ruth GU jersey card and we will never know. I wish just one person would have there Ruth swatch DNA tested, age verification, just to see what the results are , I would be very interested in the results. good job people alot of great comments here. I have to say the person who said lets keep cutting it all up until its all gone is a ARSE.

You've been thanked And I would love to see the DNA test take place too. In my heart of hearts I do hope things are the way they should be, but I can't help being skeptical.

Well presumably the jersey would have been washed so...can they get a proper dna sample from something that may not have been worn by that player for years and has been washed?And what would they use as a control?

 

[predatorkj]

With all the Autos that get put on the wrong cards by UD i would suspect they mess up the game used items even more.

Yeah but there is a difference between accidently putting the wrong jersey swatch on the wrong card and putting one in there that may be a non-GU item at all.

At least you are getting the auto of a ball player.I hope? :?

 

[Pete14Rose]

With all the Autos that get put on the wrong cards by UD i would suspect they mess up the game used items even more.

This is true. How many Tony Gwynn cards do we see with Gwynn Jr's auto? And that's just one example. The point here would be to show that the employees in charge of auto/"game used" placement onto a card either aren't too bright or actually have little to no knowledge about the things they are in charge of.

Let's just face it, it happens. If it bothers us that much.....stop buying. If we can live with knowing the gu pieces might not actually be 100% game used, carry on.

I for one don't really care that much. I buy for the look not whether or not it's 100% game used. I don't believe they are and it doesn't bother me.