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Not sure if many are watching, but there is a big situation brewing with ebay, that is much like the story in the movie WALL STREET.
You can read more about it, the problems and the players invloved, by using google, watching cnbc, or reading part of the story I will list below. The bottom line, ebay has done some stuff to piss off a major shareholder. Decisions, that have caused them to not grow at a rate expected by investors. The investor is a big, powerful man who has played this game before and won. He likes to gain enough power as a share holder to become enough of a player, to convince other shareholders, to vote his people on to the board of the company. Then he and other shareholders can use their guys to make changes they want made in the company. This will be debated by some, but his reasons for this action is not to make ebay/paypal better in the future, but to make millions by separating the 2. Many are for it, and many are against it and just think he is a greedy a-hole trying to make money. But, he is likely to win in this, as other investors, don't really care about ebay's stand alone future, they just want a huge payday, when paypal is sold and ebay/paypal stock, they own, takes off.
This puts ebay in a tough situation. Many believe, ebay needs paypal, more than paypal needs ebay, I agree with this. Paypal if used/ran properly is a current and future gold mine, that many believe isn't being ran properly reach it's potential. While ebay could be gone in a year, if a google or amazon decided to run an auction site. I know some at ebay agree with this, and while they fear ebay's future, on it's own, they would be very happy with the payday when they sell their shares
The problem for ebay is, apple is considering, going to their own brand of paypal, as are others. If this were to happen, paypal, would lose the fight and ebay is left holding nothing. So, they need to act and need to act soon, to protect their future. Perhaps, they do this by selling paypal to another large company or just selling it to be a stand alone company, that others could use, like apple and amazon. The latter, it probably their only/best option. As the competition is coming either way. Either the others get to use paypal, or they will create their own and kill it. I'm guessing, ebay will be forced to sell paypal in the near future, one way or the other.
The potential problem for us, is what happens to ebay? Can they make it as a stand alone company now. The people that created ebay and the environment that led to it's growth and popularity are now gone. They chased away many of their loyal sellers, with their policy. There was a time, when ebay was the IT company. People loved them and were loyal. That is no longer the case, as they have told people to get lost over the years, with changing policy.
Many would cheer their downfall and jump to a new thriving competition, just out of spite and to get even, in their eyes. Or people will jump to the new place, like they did when they left myspace for facebook.
This is something sellers, should be watching and is likely to change how and possibly where we sell in the future.
At the very least, it will change the paypal relationship with ebay, thus changing how we pay and how our money is handled in the future. Maybe, we end up with more options than just paypal. Which will remove a lot of ebays power over sellers. Right now, they own and can do what every they want. That may not be the case soon. Someone could file a case and ebay may not be able to force apple (paypal) to hold our money. Also, apple, amazon, google, etc, may tire of ebay all together and any of them could decide to take over the auction business and while growing their own version of paypal.
Some will assume this is all just my opinion, but this is what I am hearing from people much smarter than I am, who follow these companies. A few of the people I have gathered info from are investors and a few are big dogs at ebay and paypal.
I don't start this thread in hope of starting an anti investor, ebay, or paypal conversation. I hope we can have a decent, non hater conversation about this story and where we could see it going and whether it would be good for us, in this hobby/business. Many wish topps had some competition, to push them and make them better and care about the collector, dealers, etc. In the same light, many have the same feelings about ebay.
This is definitely a story to watch and talk about.
I wrote this while waking up and getting my kids up and off to school, so I apologize for any spelling or grammar errors, I may have made and missed. In my rush to get myself to work, please forgive, my errors. I just wanted to get the story out and call attention to it. It's a crazy story to watch in general and it's sure to get uglier than it already has. We are lucky to get to watch it from some pretty good seats. This stuff happens from time to time in the business world, but our hobby has not, (other than the UD/topps situation) been so close to it. And this situation, is much bigger than topps/ud.
Any of you who also have solid info or views of how this could go, feel free to chime in.
I wanted to add. No, I am not an investor, nor do I work at ebay. However, I have stayed at a Holiday Inn recently. I just happen to know people on both sides of this debate and thought some here might be interested in following it and what these people had to say.
[h=1]Carl Icahn Attacks Ebay, Marc Andreessen And Scott Cook In Shareholder Letter[/h]Comment Now Follow Comments
Carl Icahn has fired another shot in his battle to force eBay to spin off its fast growing PayPal division.
In an open letter to shareholders, Icahn accuses eBay’s board, namely VC Marc Andreessen and billionaire Scott Cook, of placing their interests ahead of shareholders, and competing directly against eBay. Says Icahn: “We have found ourselves in many troubling situations over the years, but the complete disregard for accountability at eBay is the most blatant we have ever seen.” Icahn also attacked eBay CEO John Donahoe calling him “completely asleep or, even worse, either naïve or willingly blind to lapses by the board.”
Icahn, who owns about 2% of eBay shares, and is pressing for two board seats (adding Icahn Enterpriseemployees Jonathan Christodoro and Daniel Ninivaggi) and for eBay to spin off its PayPal unit in an IPO. As he told me last month: “I don’t think eBay is a well-run company. When the tide is rising high, everyone looks good. Just compare eBay to Amazon. PayPal is a jewel, and eBay is covering up its value… If you just went out and took it public you’d get a huge premium because of growth.”
Icahn is not alone. PayPal cofounder Elon Musk agrees PayPal should be independent of eBay. As Musk said the recent FORBES cover story: “It doesn’t make sense that a global payment system is a subsidiary of an auction website… It’s as if Target owned Visa or something.” Musk went on to say that PayPal “will get cut to pieces by Amazon payments or by other systems like Apple and by start-ups if it continues to be part of eBay… It will either wither or be spun out…Carl Icahn can see it, and he’s not exactly super tech savvy.”
David Sacks, the former PayPal COO who went on to start Yammer, agrees too.Musk and Sacks think that a standalone PayPal could eventually top a $100 billion valuation. Says Sacks: “If you allowed PayPal to pursue its destiny there are moves it could make to become the largest financial company in the world.”
Carl Icahn (Photo: Jonathan Kozowyk for FORBES)
Ebay CEO John Donahoe told me that Ebay and PayPal are better together: “Ebay has accelerated and enhanced PayPal’s success, allowing it to be more aggressive, bolder and to take more risk than if it was separate.” PayPal President, David Marcus, echoed Donahoe’s thoughts: ” We are growing faster in this configuration than we would in any other.”
Icahn quotes Musk and Sacks heavily in his shareholder letter to persuade shareholders to spin off PayPal. He’s also attacking eBay’s corporate governance in the hopes of obtaining his board seats. Here’s Icahn’s case. (Full disclosure: two of my FORBES stories are referenced in Icahn’s letter.)
Alleged Andreessen Conflicts
Marc Andreessen, while a member if eBay’s board, was part of the buying group that took 65% of Skype off eBay’s hands in 2009 for $1.9 billion (and valued Skype at $2.75 billion). Eighteen months later Microsoft MSFT -0.45% bought Skype for $8.5 billion—about a 300% gain, a gain that Icahn thinks should have went to shareholders.
You can read more about it, the problems and the players invloved, by using google, watching cnbc, or reading part of the story I will list below. The bottom line, ebay has done some stuff to piss off a major shareholder. Decisions, that have caused them to not grow at a rate expected by investors. The investor is a big, powerful man who has played this game before and won. He likes to gain enough power as a share holder to become enough of a player, to convince other shareholders, to vote his people on to the board of the company. Then he and other shareholders can use their guys to make changes they want made in the company. This will be debated by some, but his reasons for this action is not to make ebay/paypal better in the future, but to make millions by separating the 2. Many are for it, and many are against it and just think he is a greedy a-hole trying to make money. But, he is likely to win in this, as other investors, don't really care about ebay's stand alone future, they just want a huge payday, when paypal is sold and ebay/paypal stock, they own, takes off.
This puts ebay in a tough situation. Many believe, ebay needs paypal, more than paypal needs ebay, I agree with this. Paypal if used/ran properly is a current and future gold mine, that many believe isn't being ran properly reach it's potential. While ebay could be gone in a year, if a google or amazon decided to run an auction site. I know some at ebay agree with this, and while they fear ebay's future, on it's own, they would be very happy with the payday when they sell their shares
The problem for ebay is, apple is considering, going to their own brand of paypal, as are others. If this were to happen, paypal, would lose the fight and ebay is left holding nothing. So, they need to act and need to act soon, to protect their future. Perhaps, they do this by selling paypal to another large company or just selling it to be a stand alone company, that others could use, like apple and amazon. The latter, it probably their only/best option. As the competition is coming either way. Either the others get to use paypal, or they will create their own and kill it. I'm guessing, ebay will be forced to sell paypal in the near future, one way or the other.
The potential problem for us, is what happens to ebay? Can they make it as a stand alone company now. The people that created ebay and the environment that led to it's growth and popularity are now gone. They chased away many of their loyal sellers, with their policy. There was a time, when ebay was the IT company. People loved them and were loyal. That is no longer the case, as they have told people to get lost over the years, with changing policy.
Many would cheer their downfall and jump to a new thriving competition, just out of spite and to get even, in their eyes. Or people will jump to the new place, like they did when they left myspace for facebook.
This is something sellers, should be watching and is likely to change how and possibly where we sell in the future.
At the very least, it will change the paypal relationship with ebay, thus changing how we pay and how our money is handled in the future. Maybe, we end up with more options than just paypal. Which will remove a lot of ebays power over sellers. Right now, they own and can do what every they want. That may not be the case soon. Someone could file a case and ebay may not be able to force apple (paypal) to hold our money. Also, apple, amazon, google, etc, may tire of ebay all together and any of them could decide to take over the auction business and while growing their own version of paypal.
Some will assume this is all just my opinion, but this is what I am hearing from people much smarter than I am, who follow these companies. A few of the people I have gathered info from are investors and a few are big dogs at ebay and paypal.
I don't start this thread in hope of starting an anti investor, ebay, or paypal conversation. I hope we can have a decent, non hater conversation about this story and where we could see it going and whether it would be good for us, in this hobby/business. Many wish topps had some competition, to push them and make them better and care about the collector, dealers, etc. In the same light, many have the same feelings about ebay.
This is definitely a story to watch and talk about.
I wrote this while waking up and getting my kids up and off to school, so I apologize for any spelling or grammar errors, I may have made and missed. In my rush to get myself to work, please forgive, my errors. I just wanted to get the story out and call attention to it. It's a crazy story to watch in general and it's sure to get uglier than it already has. We are lucky to get to watch it from some pretty good seats. This stuff happens from time to time in the business world, but our hobby has not, (other than the UD/topps situation) been so close to it. And this situation, is much bigger than topps/ud.
Any of you who also have solid info or views of how this could go, feel free to chime in.
I wanted to add. No, I am not an investor, nor do I work at ebay. However, I have stayed at a Holiday Inn recently. I just happen to know people on both sides of this debate and thought some here might be interested in following it and what these people had to say.
[h=1]Carl Icahn Attacks Ebay, Marc Andreessen And Scott Cook In Shareholder Letter[/h]Comment Now Follow Comments
Carl Icahn has fired another shot in his battle to force eBay to spin off its fast growing PayPal division.
In an open letter to shareholders, Icahn accuses eBay’s board, namely VC Marc Andreessen and billionaire Scott Cook, of placing their interests ahead of shareholders, and competing directly against eBay. Says Icahn: “We have found ourselves in many troubling situations over the years, but the complete disregard for accountability at eBay is the most blatant we have ever seen.” Icahn also attacked eBay CEO John Donahoe calling him “completely asleep or, even worse, either naïve or willingly blind to lapses by the board.”
Icahn, who owns about 2% of eBay shares, and is pressing for two board seats (adding Icahn Enterpriseemployees Jonathan Christodoro and Daniel Ninivaggi) and for eBay to spin off its PayPal unit in an IPO. As he told me last month: “I don’t think eBay is a well-run company. When the tide is rising high, everyone looks good. Just compare eBay to Amazon. PayPal is a jewel, and eBay is covering up its value… If you just went out and took it public you’d get a huge premium because of growth.”
Icahn is not alone. PayPal cofounder Elon Musk agrees PayPal should be independent of eBay. As Musk said the recent FORBES cover story: “It doesn’t make sense that a global payment system is a subsidiary of an auction website… It’s as if Target owned Visa or something.” Musk went on to say that PayPal “will get cut to pieces by Amazon payments or by other systems like Apple and by start-ups if it continues to be part of eBay… It will either wither or be spun out…Carl Icahn can see it, and he’s not exactly super tech savvy.”
David Sacks, the former PayPal COO who went on to start Yammer, agrees too.Musk and Sacks think that a standalone PayPal could eventually top a $100 billion valuation. Says Sacks: “If you allowed PayPal to pursue its destiny there are moves it could make to become the largest financial company in the world.”
Ebay CEO John Donahoe told me that Ebay and PayPal are better together: “Ebay has accelerated and enhanced PayPal’s success, allowing it to be more aggressive, bolder and to take more risk than if it was separate.” PayPal President, David Marcus, echoed Donahoe’s thoughts: ” We are growing faster in this configuration than we would in any other.”
Icahn quotes Musk and Sacks heavily in his shareholder letter to persuade shareholders to spin off PayPal. He’s also attacking eBay’s corporate governance in the hopes of obtaining his board seats. Here’s Icahn’s case. (Full disclosure: two of my FORBES stories are referenced in Icahn’s letter.)
Alleged Andreessen Conflicts
Marc Andreessen, while a member if eBay’s board, was part of the buying group that took 65% of Skype off eBay’s hands in 2009 for $1.9 billion (and valued Skype at $2.75 billion). Eighteen months later Microsoft MSFT -0.45% bought Skype for $8.5 billion—about a 300% gain, a gain that Icahn thinks should have went to shareholders.
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