ESPN Top 100 Prospects!

[masonphillip]

Not even Upton

Griffey is one per generation

After looking at their 20 year old seasons I have to agree, Griffey outperformed Upton at 20 in a whole ton of categories.

 

[cgilmo]

Not even Upton

Griffey is one per generation

After looking at their 20 year old seasons I have to agree, Griffey outperformed Upton at 20 in a whole ton of categories.

It's more about what Griffey grew into. As high as his projection was, Griffey shattered it.

 

[Jaypers]

Pujols > Griffey

 

[cgilmo]

Pujols > Griffey

I am unsure how I feel about that statement.

 

[NECpilgrims8]

Pujols > Griffey

Apples > Oranges

When Pujols can be a 5-tool talent and play CF, then we can talk. Let's not compare two completely different types of players.

...and this is not to discredit Pujols at all. They are just two completely different beasts.

 

[ThoseBackPages]

Pujols > Griffey

Apples > Oranges

When Pujols can be a 5-tool talent and play CF, then we can talk. Let's not compare two completely different types of players.

...and this is not to discredit Pujols at all. They are just two completely different beasts.

+1

Hindsight is always 20/20.

Lets not forget that Pujols came around when not many cared about cards, and to a certain extent, the game itself.
When Junior (btw, it speaks volumes in my book that you can call him "Junior" and people pretty much know who you are talking about) came around, baseball cards were amazingly popular (i know, i know, killing trees by the gazillions), and baseball was still pretty much the #1 of the four sports

 

[masonphillip]

Pujols > Griffey

Pujols number one quality is hitting and then everything else, Griffey was a five tool talent.

From age 21-28 (to compare apples to apples) they were roughly the same in HRs and RBIs, Pujols has the edge in batting average for sure but Griffey was a base stealer and played gold glove defense at a premium position. So I just think that is hard call to make.

 

[All The Hype]

[quote="card-treasury":vmjhgk4c]What other than to get drafted first overall has Tim Beckham done to be ranked ahead of players such as Colby Rasmus?

Ranking prospects is all about what the player WILL do, not what they've already done. A novel concept, huh?

It's gonna be pretty hard to beat .300 with a 30-30 and a gold glove in the toughest of outfield positions, especially for a guy that every scout and analyst in the world projects as having a maximum power potential of 20 home runs.

It's a novel concept indeed.[/quote:vmjhgk4c]


But where were his .300 average, 30 homers and 30 SBs in 2008? I believe he was somethin like .250, 11 and 15. I just don't think that a guy who is supposed to be a top 10 (maybe even top 5) prospect can get away with a season like that and retain his status in the top 10.

Prospect lists are a lot about speculation, but at some point, the guy's gotta back up the hype with numbers, and even though he may have done that in the past, he surely did not do that in 2008.

 

[cgilmo]

[quote="card-treasury":2h56z3dj]

[quote="card-treasury":2h56z3dj]What other than to get drafted first overall has Tim Beckham done to be ranked ahead of players such as Colby Rasmus?

Ranking prospects is all about what the player WILL do, not what they've already done. A novel concept, huh?

It's gonna be pretty hard to beat .300 with a 30-30 and a gold glove in the toughest of outfield positions, especially for a guy that every scout and analyst in the world projects as having a maximum power potential of 20 home runs.

It's a novel concept indeed.[/quote:2h56z3dj]


But where were his .300 average, 30 homers and 30 SBs in 2008? I believe he was somethin like .250, 11 and 15. I just don't think that a guy who is supposed to be a top 10 (maybe even top 5) prospect can get away with a season like that and retain his status in the top 10.

Prospect lists are a lot about speculation, but at some point, the guy's gotta back up the hype with numbers, and even though he may have done that in the past, he surely did not do that in 2008.[/quote:2h56z3dj]

The 2008 season can be dismissed in the case of Rasmus, do your homework instead of looking at a stat sheet. Read about his groin injury.

 

[All The Hype]

[quote="card-treasury":1gkmfoxl]

[quote="card-treasury":1gkmfoxl]What other than to get drafted first overall has Tim Beckham done to be ranked ahead of players such as Colby Rasmus?

Ranking prospects is all about what the player WILL do, not what they've already done. A novel concept, huh?

It's gonna be pretty hard to beat .300 with a 30-30 and a gold glove in the toughest of outfield positions, especially for a guy that every scout and analyst in the world projects as having a maximum power potential of 20 home runs.

It's a novel concept indeed.

But where were his .300 average, 30 homers and 30 SBs in 2008? I believe he was somethin like .250, 11 and 15. I just don't think that a guy who is supposed to be a top 10 (maybe even top 5) prospect can get away with a season like that and retain his status in the top 10.

Prospect lists are a lot about speculation, but at some point, the guy's gotta back up the hype with numbers, and even though he may have done that in the past, he surely did not do that in 2008.[/quote:1gkmfoxl]

The 2008 season can be dismissed in the case of Rasmus, do your homework instead of looking at a stat sheet. Read about his groin injury.[/quote:1gkmfoxl]


I'm well aware of him being injured, but injured or not, if you are a top 10 prospect and put up very average numbers, your status as a top 10 prospect should be hurt, in my opinion. There are so many other guys performing and developing and who have tons of potential... even if Rasmus does meet his full potential in the future, it's just hard for me to accept him as an automatic top-10 after an off year (regardless of whether or not he was fighting injury).

 

[cgilmo]

Prospect ratings are about ability, not statistics. Sometimes statistics accurately show ability, sometimes they do not.

 

[ThoseBackPages]

Colby is still 22, thats pretty scary

 

[masonphillip]

Colby is still 22, thats pretty scary

It is, he could be a very good pro.

However, both griffey and pujols were putting up big numbers in the MLB at 21.

 

[NECpilgrims8]

[quote="ALL_THE_HYPE":28mjdyrb][quote="card-treasury":28mjdyrb]

[quote="card-treasury":28mjdyrb]What other than to get drafted first overall has Tim Beckham done to be ranked ahead of players such as Colby Rasmus?

Ranking prospects is all about what the player WILL do, not what they've already done. A novel concept, huh?

It's gonna be pretty hard to beat .300 with a 30-30 and a gold glove in the toughest of outfield positions, especially for a guy that every scout and analyst in the world projects as having a maximum power potential of 20 home runs.

It's a novel concept indeed.

But where were his .300 average, 30 homers and 30 SBs in 2008? I believe he was somethin like .250, 11 and 15. I just don't think that a guy who is supposed to be a top 10 (maybe even top 5) prospect can get away with a season like that and retain his status in the top 10.

Prospect lists are a lot about speculation, but at some point, the guy's gotta back up the hype with numbers, and even though he may have done that in the past, he surely did not do that in 2008.[/quote:28mjdyrb]

The 2008 season can be dismissed in the case of Rasmus, do your homework instead of looking at a stat sheet. Read about his groin injury.[/quote:28mjdyrb]


I'm well aware of him being injured, but injured or not, if you are a top 10 prospect and put up very average numbers, your status as a top 10 prospect should be hurt, in my opinion. There are so many other guys performing and developing and who have tons of potential... even if Rasmus does meet his full potential in the future, it's just hard for me to accept him as an automatic top-10 after an off year (regardless of whether or not he was fighting injury).[/quote:28mjdyrb]

So, does that mean you think Rasmus should be #11 on the Cardinals list, because he had injuries and an "average" season?

It has so much more to do with age, projection, tools, and makeup...rather than the numbers they put up in their later developing years.

AAA is not a place for top prospects to light on fire and demolish. It is a place to get them ready for the majors, and their "sexy" statistical numbers are far less important. In fact, many top prospects have their numbers dip a little in AAA because they are refining the last little bit of their game, rather than having to prove their worth.

Proving their worth is what AA is for - the hardest transition in baseball.

 

[ThoseBackPages]

Colby is still 22, thats pretty scary

It is, he could be a very good pro.

However, both griffey and pujols were putting up big numbers in the MLB at 21.

Not arguing that at all.

 

[pujolsjunkie]

Pujols, should he continue on his pace, will go down as one of the top five hitters in the game's history. But of course, Griffey was on pace to shatter the all-time HR record and injuries struck. Having to play a less demanding position (at a Gold Glove-caliber level, for those that may overlook that) should help Albert avoid that fate, especially with his proclamation that he is now finally 100% healthy. The guy is just amazing.

 

[hive17]

The arguements that come up with lists like these are always the same.

"Oh, well, player so-and-so is a freak, is young and had a down year, so he deserves the ranking."

"How can you rank a guy who had THESE numbers last year against some kid who hasn't even played pro yet?"

"Wait, wait, wait; player X only had a bad half a year, rocked in the first part, and has been hot before. Why isn't he given a pass like these other guys?"

"Prospecting is about CIELING!"

"Prospecting is about what they're shown they can do!"

5-tool vs. power numbers.

Wins and ERA. vs. Power Ks.

If you already know your guy is good, why do you care what a bonehead like Law has to say. If anything, it keeps your guy under the radar more.

 

[Wes]

[quote="card-treasury":n4tus4eb]

[quote="card-treasury":n4tus4eb]What other than to get drafted first overall has Tim Beckham done to be ranked ahead of players such as Colby Rasmus?

Ranking prospects is all about what the player WILL do, not what they've already done. A novel concept, huh?

It's gonna be pretty hard to beat .300 with a 30-30 and a gold glove in the toughest of outfield positions, especially for a guy that every scout and analyst in the world projects as having a maximum power potential of 20 home runs.

It's a novel concept indeed.

Shortstop is the premium of premium positions. A star at SS is more valuable than a star in CF - although CF is a premium position as well.[/quote:n4tus4eb]

And you would rather have another Edgar Renteria than a stud center fielder like Griffey was in his youth, but with a batting average lowered to .290-.300 in his prime?

Not me.[/quote:n4tus4eb]

I would rather have an A level shortstop than an A level CF. Renteria is currently a C or D and used to be a B while Griffey was at one point an A+. Not a fair comparison for Rasmus and Beckham.

 

[dchurg]

I am actually starting to HATE this guy..here is some very intelligent responses from his chat...

Nick (Milwaukee): Brewers with (paraphrased) "no star power beyond Jeffress"? Ummm Jeffress isnt even listed amongst your pitchers, but Gamel is the 6th best 3B and Escobar is a future gold glove, and 5th best, SS. I dont get it.

Keith Law: Keep thinking. It's not that hard.

Brian (Brooklyn): No Anthony Hewitt?

Keith Law: That's funny.

Jason (Pitt): If you are proven wrong about Alvarez vs. Smoak, Hosmer, etc... will you write a column, or at least publicly admit to it? Seems only fair....

Keith Law: Oh, look, a dumb idea found a new friend. Why would I write an entire column about that?

Pedro (Pitt): So the fact that I raked in wood bat international play with Team USA, leading the team 4 categories and 2nd in 3 more means nothing? When compared to Smoak who didnt do jack squat in intl. play.

Keith Law: You are correct. Tiny samples mean nothing. I'm glad they taught you something at that community college you went to in Nashville.

[quote]Jason (Philly): Whats up with Andrew Brackman, any chance we see him in the bronx this year? P.S. your photo looks like a mug shot

Keith Law: The charges were dropped. [/quote]



ANd there is more...just dont feel like posting it

 

[bballcardkid]

I am actually starting to HATE this guy..here is some very intelligent responses from his chat...

Nick (Milwaukee): Brewers with (paraphrased) "no star power beyond Jeffress"? Ummm Jeffress isnt even listed amongst your pitchers, but Gamel is the 6th best 3B and Escobar is a future gold glove, and 5th best, SS. I dont get it.

Keith Law: Keep thinking. It's not that hard.

[quote:23wzegch]Brian (Brooklyn): No Anthony Hewitt?

Keith Law: That's funny.

Jason (Pitt): If you are proven wrong about Alvarez vs. Smoak, Hosmer, etc... will you write a column, or at least publicly admit to it? Seems only fair....

Keith Law: Oh, look, a dumb idea found a new friend. Why would I write an entire column about that?

Pedro (Pitt): So the fact that I raked in wood bat international play with Team USA, leading the team 4 categories and 2nd in 3 more means nothing? When compared to Smoak who didnt do jack squat in intl. play.

Keith Law: You are correct. Tiny samples mean nothing. I'm glad they taught you something at that community college you went to in Nashville.

[quote]Jason (Philly): Whats up with Andrew Brackman, any chance we see him in the bronx this year? P.S. your photo looks like a mug shot

Keith Law: The charges were dropped. [/quote]



ANd there is more...just dont feel like posting it[/quote:23wzegch]

Wow, the arrogance of the ivy leaguers.