Fan a DBAG? or is he right? you be the judge

[Adamsince1981]

I'd like to say I'd give a rookie his cherry homerun ball for nada.

I might say something like, "When you get to having a whole lot of extra money, think about me and see how I'm doing."

And that's why they expect so much for doing so very little. Baseball players have everything handed to them in their lives. Even the crappy players make millions, and they still feel like the world owes them something. I think the only players I ever encountered that were not like this were hockey players.

Say you're at a game with your kid (don't know if you have kids, but it's hypothetical). They drop their favorite teddy bear that they got when when they were born over the outfield wall. They don't go anywhere without this thing. Now a security guard picks it up and knows how important it is to you to get it back. He isn't making the big bucks, so he says he wants $50 from you for it. It's well within your budget to shell out the $50, so is the guy being a ********* or is he teaching your kid not to expect everything to be handed to him/her in life?

...because that is the same...

No not, the same but...

Person 1 has something with sentimental value to Person 2.
Person 1 asks for money to give it to Person 2.
Person 2 can afford the asking price from Person 1.

Remove the fact that ballplayers make significant amounts of money and it's a similar idea. Just because you can ask for money, and the other person can afford it doesn't make it the right thing to do.

The player never owned the ball and he isn't the only person to see value in the ball. The bear, that was actually owned by the party that would like to have it back, is only worth more than garage sale value to that family. The player is making a minimum of $375K, the family worried about the bear is likely making lower to middle class wages.

 

[brianga26]

About the Rockies comment.

I know they are traveling a lot... I also went down for the Tigers vs Braves (exhibition) 3 guys signed, Edwin Jackson, Fernando Rodney and Gerald Laird. Was pretty impressed at those guys.. the rest just ignored people..

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

There aren't rules that when you throw things or drop things onto the field then you forfeit your right to the belongings. I'd do the same as you MA, and just give the ball back (and maybe just ask for a signed ball instead). I'm just saying that ballplayers get too much hate just because they make money, and therefore the rules of courtesy and being good to other people are thrown out the door. If the guy just really wanted the ball and said that he'd only part with it for a huge sum of money then that's one thing. The guy most likely didn't care about the ball and was just looking to cash in because he knew the player had money.

The Teddy Bear actually belongs to your kid, so the guy is a dbag. The ball belongs to the fan who caught it, unless th rules have changed.

Giving a player an important ball.. well, if I was a player, I'd want my ball, but if the person who caught it didn't ask for anything, I'd check him out in the future, see how he's doing." That's just me though.

I'd like to say I'd give a rookie his cherry homerun ball for nada.

I might say something like, "When you get to having a whole lot of extra money, think about me and see how I'm doing."

And that's why they expect so much for doing so very little. Baseball players have everything handed to them in their lives. Even the crappy players make millions, and they still feel like the world owes them something. I think the only players I ever encountered that were not like this were hockey players.

Say you're at a game with your kid (don't know if you have kids, but it's hypothetical). They drop their favorite teddy bear that they got when when they were born over the outfield wall. They don't go anywhere without this thing. Now a security guard picks it up and knows how important it is to you to get it back. He isn't making the big bucks, so he says he wants $50 from you for it. It's well within your budget to shell out the $50, so is the guy being a ********* or is he teaching your kid not to expect everything to be handed to him/her in life?

 

[VizquelCollector.com]

I'm sick and tired of going to ball games and seeing grown men in their 30's, 40's, even 50's downright harassing players. I have front row tix behind the home dugout of the Columbus Clippers, and there's a jacka$$ that sits not far away that will bug the players DURING THE GAME. More than a few times other fans have had to get someone to settle him down. I mean can you IMAGINE what it'd be like to crack your bat and get thrown out, walk back to the dugout with the bat pieces and this idiot saying:

"Hey hey hey hey! Hey Lou! Hey Lou! Lou Lou Lou Lou Lou! Gimme the bat? Gimme the bat? Can I have the bat? COME ON, just throw me the pieces! Come on! Please? Lou Lou Lou Lou Lou! Hey Lou!"

Granted, he's the exception to the rule, but still. I'd go out of my mind listening to knuckleheads every night pleading with me to sign junk that they very likely will sell on eBay or toss on a shelf and never look at again. On the other hand, I think signing for kids is really a great, classy, and honorable thing to do.

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

[quote="MattinglyAlexander":2e18khww]I'd like to say I'd give a rookie his cherry homerun ball for nada.

I might say something like, "When you get to having a whole lot of extra money, think about me and see how I'm doing."

And that's why they expect so much for doing so very little. Baseball players have everything handed to them in their lives. Even the crappy players make millions, and they still feel like the world owes them something. I think the only players I ever encountered that were not like this were hockey players.

Say you're at a game with your kid (don't know if you have kids, but it's hypothetical). They drop their favorite teddy bear that they got when when they were born over the outfield wall. They don't go anywhere without this thing. Now a security guard picks it up and knows how important it is to you to get it back. He isn't making the big bucks, so he says he wants $50 from you for it. It's well within your budget to shell out the $50, so is the guy being a ********* or is he teaching your kid not to expect everything to be handed to him/her in life?

...because that is the same...

No not, the same but...

Person 1 has something with sentimental value to Person 2.
Person 1 asks for money to give it to Person 2.
Person 2 can afford the asking price from Person 1.

Remove the fact that ballplayers make significant amounts of money and it's a similar idea. Just because you can ask for money, and the other person can afford it doesn't make it the right thing to do.

The player never owned the ball and he isn't the only person to see value in the ball. The bear, that was actually owned by the party that would like to have it back, is only worth more than garage sale value to that family. The player is making a minimum of $375K, the family worried about the bear is likely making lower to middle class wages.[/quote:2e18khww]

You're bringing salaries back into the picture, which is what I was trying to remove with the idea of a security guard and an average fan (both probably make similar amounts). The question was "Was the Fan a DBAG" and I think it's 100% yes.

 

[Adamsince1981]

The player never owned the ball. MLB owned it, then the fan that caught it owns it. A fan not trading or giving the ball to the player has nothing to do with courtesy.

 

[A_Pharis]

Where I agree is with MA. That ball is clearly the fan's to do with what he will, and he has the right to ask for it what he wants.
I think it just makes him out to be a dbag when he knows it means more to the player than the fan.
If it were a player the caliber of... say... Pujols -- then I'd be stoked that I caught Pujols' HR ball. Imagine if it were a landmark ball.
Look at the player in this situation. Odds are, this guy is not going to be a Pujols. If this fan keeps this baseball, it's going to sit in the dark and collect dust. I think the goodwill that the fan would have earned would have been worth a lot more than the $10k in the end. I say give him the $10k and let him pay the taxes on it... maybe it'll throw him into another tax bracket and screw his income.
Or better yet, just say "yeah, the ball is worth 10k, but I'm not going to pay it" and turn around to contact the IRS that a solid value has been established on the ball so that the guy has to be taxed on the value of the ball as an asset.

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

The player never owned the ball. MLB owned it, then the fan that caught it owns it. A fan not trading or giving the ball to the player has nothing to do with courtesy.

I guess where we disagree is on the intentions of the fan. If he's a collector or whatever and catching the ball means more to him than whatever the team was offering then I'm fine saying everything has a price and this is mine. Like I would never trade or sell my Hanley collection, but if Hanley Ramirez wanted it I'd sell it for some ridiculous amount of money. However, I don't think the ball had any personal meaning to the fan. I think he knew he had something the other person wanted and tried to get far more than the ball was worth because he knew the other side had money.

 

[mchenrycards]

Why are salaries even in this picture???

Society has gone so far into the crapper that decency has been thrown out the window. I mean come on...this is the guys 1st home run, the team makes a nice offer and the ass wants 10K? whatever happened to being happy that you caught a ball and then getting to meet the player and get some cool stuff. Our society has turned into a bunch of money grubbing, whats in it for me turds. Geez I am really starting to not like a large majority of our population.

So what if the player is making 375K per year. These guys have to make all they can now because the career expectency is next to nothing. Most minor leaguers dont make alot of money and they are surviving on pay that is less than probably most of us make. the wrack up their credit cards to support a family and yes, they play a game for a living 9 months of the year but they still have bills. If they make the league minimum and never get back to the majors that 375K does not really go all that far. After paying taxes, agents and all the other stuff they have to pay, well there isnt a huge sum of oney left. A average major league baseball rookie will not get rich on what he is making. Dont get me wrong..its alot of money but its not the 16 million some of these guys are getting either. If a player like this is lucky enough to stick in the majors, well then he will more than likely do well for himself, but if he goes back to the minors and never gets to sip that cup of coffee again well that money will not go far.

Ok I am rambling and I am not going to defend these guys making 16 million. BUt geez, do the right thing and give the rookie the ball. Its the only decent and right thing to do. What the hell has happened to our country and our society???

 

[lisu]

I think the fan is being a jerk. It's not like the guy who hit the HR is a rookie who got a huge signing bonus and can afford to buy his first HR ball. The only person who really wants that ball is Matt Carson. Holding the ball hostage for $10k is ridiculous.

 

[brianga26]

Society has gone in the crapper. I do agree. We are not concerned with others rather ourselves. We have turned into a "ME" society when sometimes its a "we" situation. The guy should give Carson the ball, and in turn Carson should do something nice for him. (if its taking the guy out for a beer, and a good convo) but, again, we need to stop being so "egocentric" and be more giving (and no I am not a politician, just a person tired of seeing people getting shatted on)

 

[nyc3]

While I think its in bad taste of the fan its also in bad taste to offer a signed ball from this player and some garbage swag. We all know a 1st HR ball from a rookie is worth much more than the crap they offered him, or should I say tried to force it upon him. I seen this HR on tv and they basically had security remove this guy from his seat to make an offer even though he was not interested in getting rid of it. So what does the classy front office of the team do? Release a press release about this ball. Say this guy goes on to hit a ton of HR'S would you be happy with your $40 auto ball and lame hat? I think not.

It comes down to the same as when someone has a rare card on ebay, their item their price. If he really wanted this ball he could have stepped up and offered more, but the TEAMS are afraid this will set a precedent if they offer more so they low ball the fans. The teams are to busy putting MLB holos on batting practice balls to sell at the team shop for $45 each.

 

[clarkfan]

What is league minimum these days?? $250,000 ??? I'm pretty sure if Carson really wanted it, he could afford it. $10K isn't anything at all to a professional ballplayer. Heck, he could have all his rich teammates put $850 each into a pot and have that purchased by the end of the night. Cheap skates!!! I personally don't mind the fan holding out. Don't try to buy me off with a no-namer's autograph on a $70 bat, woo frickin hoo.

 

[lisu]

What is league minimum these days?? $250,000 ??? I'm pretty sure if Carson really wanted it, he could afford it. $10K isn't anything at all to a professional ballplayer. Heck, he could have all his rich teammates put $850 each into a pot and have that purchased by the end of the night. Cheap skates!!! I personally don't mind the fan holding out. Don't try to buy me off with a no-namer's autograph on a $70 bat, woo frickin hoo.

He's only getting paid for about 15 days at the league minimum - so about $37k before taxes.

 

[yakacack]

I may have now seen/heard it all with some of the posts made in this thread.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

I posted this story a year ago...

Let me give you the reader's digest version. About 4 years ago, I registered colehamels.com. Most of you older BMBers know that I (and Mike Marinaro) followed him since he was drafted, and followed him exceptionally closely when he was in Clearwater. I registered the site and planned on creating a fan site. I never put anything on the site, due to a lack of time -- family, little league, work, that kind of thing -- so I was contacted about a year and a half ago by Cole's sister in law -- Heidi Strobel's sister -- asking me what I wanted for the site, that Cole wanted it. I certainly didn't want to sell the site - I didn't want to hold a player that I really liked ransom for the site, and I did want to eventually create a fan site, but since Cole himself wanted it, I was willing to give it up. His sister in law wanted me to get something, so we eventually proposed two auto'ed jerseys for me and my older son, personalized (I wanted them personalized so that they knew I wasn't ever going to sell them), and two bats, also personalized.

The bats came, although unpersonalized, as did the jerseys... and now, colehamels.com is in the hands of Cole Hamels.

I would never, EVER think about demanding money for the website.

 

[mchenrycards]

See..Jeff's response is what its all about. If we all cared more about each other instead of trying to get whats ours, things would be alot better. I know this is a bit Pollyanna but damn it has to start somewhere.

COngrats Jeff! You did the right thing and its great to see you were rewarded!

 

[nyc3]

Jeff you did the right thing but now how about this scenario. You bought the site to make a fan site, then you are contacted by Coles manager and they demand the domain for next to nothing when you have no intention of selling it. You get mad at their approach and throw out something you want say season tickets just to have them leave you alone. Would you be cool with Cole then releasing a statement basically saying you are a jerk?

The player is not entitled to this ball. Last time I checked the back of the tickets do not say anything about if a ball is hit in to the stands you have to give it to the player, no matter how nice of a guy he is. Maybe the guy who caught the ball was a huge fan with no interest in selling? But we will never know this cause he dont have a public relations team to make the team look bad.

 

[MattinglyAlexander]

That's pretty nice.

I posted this story a year ago...

Let me give you the reader's digest version. About 3 years ago, I registered colehamels.com. Most of you older BMBers know that I (and Mike Marinaro) followed him since he was drafted, and followed him exceptionally closely when he was in Clearwater. I registered the site and planned on creating a fan site. I never put anything on the site, due to a lack of time -- family, little league, work, that kind of thing -- so I was contacted about a year and a half ago by Cole's sister in law -- Heidi Strobel's sister -- asking me what I wanted for the site, that Cole wanted it. I certainly didn't want to sell the site - I didn't want to hold a player that I really liked ransom for the site, and I did want to eventually create a fan site, but since Cole himself wanted it, I was willing to give it up. His sister in law wanted me to get something, so we eventually proposed two auto'ed jerseys for me and my older son, personalized (I wanted them personalized so that they knew I wasn't ever going to sell them), and two bats, also personalized.

The bats came, although unpersonalized, as did the jerseys... and now, colehamels.com is in the hands of Cole Hamels.

I would never, EVER think about demanding money for the website.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Jeff you did the right thing but now how about this scenario. You bought the site to make a fan site, then you are contacted by Coles manager and they demand the domain for next to nothing when you have no intention of selling it. You get mad at their approach and throw out something you want say season tickets just to have them leave you alone. Would you be cool with Cole then releasing a statement basically saying you are a jerk?

The player is just as entitled to the ball as the owner of the ball is entitled to his price. Last time I checked the back of the tickets do not say anything about if a ball is hit in to the stands you have to give it to the player, no matter how nice of a guy he is. Maybe the guy who caught the ball was a huge fan with no interest in selling? But we will never know this cause he dont have a public relations team to make the team look bad.

Oh, we'll know. This is a great story - if I was the fan and was a "huge fan with no interest in selling" I'd call the Oakland newspapers for them to get my side; get on the evening news, etc.

I think you're right; if the site was DEMANDED (and quite frankly, there is some case law which would indicate that I was "squatting" on the site) of me, or worse, I was threatened with legal action, I would certainly be offended. If there was a statement as you said, I would be even more offended and certainly no longer want to keep the site or be a fan of Cole's. Therefore, I'd probably put the site on eBay and get a few hundred bucks (frankly, the jerseys were real -$200 ea, plus real bats - at least $50-75 ea, so I got about $500 + the autos..) and be done with Cole. However, the site has some value to other people. I don't think many people other than Matt Carson (this is the dude with the huge eyebrows in a Yankees uniform in the 2002 UD Prospect Premieres set, right?) want this ball, and it has little value.

I understand your scenario, but I TRULY doubt this guy is a huge Matt Carson fan. He's just trying to strongarm the team.

That being said, the team should offer something a little more valuable than a bat or a single signed ball/jersey. Get a team ball, and/or tickets... As for requiring money only, the ball holder is an idiot. These things can be sold for cash, which is just as good as money.