matchpenalty
New member
Is there a link on site here for FCB podcasts? I need to hear some of them again.
When was last one put up.
When was last one put up.
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FCB sponsored debate???
- Thread starter Leaf
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ArtVandelay
New member
- Jul 6, 2010
- 468
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Hell has frozen over....a Leaf thread with Jeff not posting in the first 5 posts.
In fairness, the word "Leaf" was nowhere to be found in the thread's title.
sportscardtheory
Active member
lol Nice.
matfanofold
Active member
- Aug 10, 2008
- 7,645
- 1
This would be a horrible idea for a few different reasons:
1. In a live verbal debate, a question would be posed, then an answer, move on... Brian knows this and is banking on this fact as most of what Jeff posts is simply rehashed and would sound childish verbally being overly repeated after an explaination. Is this something anyone really wants to listen to, a verbal debate with Jeff and Brian??
2. No matter how you cut it, this will turn in to LEAF vs No Name peanuts collector. I prefer Brian keep his messageboard (collectors) passion seperate from official LEAF face, and hardly would I chose Jeff to represent me and my interests with regards to LEAF.
3. As stated above, this would simply be a LEAF vs average joe collector and would be a no win situation for LEAF. The facts that surround most of peoples displeasure with Razor/LEAF are undeniable and undisputable. A debate of this nature would only tarnish the LEAF name regardless the outcome.
4. You seem to be dangling a 'gift' of a charitable contribution to get FCB/Jeff to bend to your will. You know very well that a verbal, live debate is fruitless because the problems/issues many have with your company are valid. Even if you somehow 'won' this debate, would it negate everyone elses concerns? Will it change the past at all? If FCB and/or Jeff decline (which I strongly urge) will the lack of a charitable donation now be on their heads?
I just can not see how this would be good for anyone involved. There is a difference between being 'transparent' in your business and what you're trying to do here. What you are trying to do here is 'win' something, and not anything more. As someone pointed out earlier, Jeff is insiginificant. His overstated claims are however somewhat legitimate. Your business practices, poorly woorde promises, and past involvment with RAZOR have led to some taking exception with your decisions. Do you think a debate will negate any of that? Do you think peoples opinions within this hobby are so shallow that a debate with Jeff will somehow overshadow them? Help them see their opinions are wrong??
The Brian Gray I know, the same guy who admittedly made some mistakes and owns up to them, would never want to do what you have suggested. THe BG I know, or thought I knew, took criticism (good and bad) and used it to better himself, his company.
1. In a live verbal debate, a question would be posed, then an answer, move on... Brian knows this and is banking on this fact as most of what Jeff posts is simply rehashed and would sound childish verbally being overly repeated after an explaination. Is this something anyone really wants to listen to, a verbal debate with Jeff and Brian??
2. No matter how you cut it, this will turn in to LEAF vs No Name peanuts collector. I prefer Brian keep his messageboard (collectors) passion seperate from official LEAF face, and hardly would I chose Jeff to represent me and my interests with regards to LEAF.
3. As stated above, this would simply be a LEAF vs average joe collector and would be a no win situation for LEAF. The facts that surround most of peoples displeasure with Razor/LEAF are undeniable and undisputable. A debate of this nature would only tarnish the LEAF name regardless the outcome.
4. You seem to be dangling a 'gift' of a charitable contribution to get FCB/Jeff to bend to your will. You know very well that a verbal, live debate is fruitless because the problems/issues many have with your company are valid. Even if you somehow 'won' this debate, would it negate everyone elses concerns? Will it change the past at all? If FCB and/or Jeff decline (which I strongly urge) will the lack of a charitable donation now be on their heads?
I just can not see how this would be good for anyone involved. There is a difference between being 'transparent' in your business and what you're trying to do here. What you are trying to do here is 'win' something, and not anything more. As someone pointed out earlier, Jeff is insiginificant. His overstated claims are however somewhat legitimate. Your business practices, poorly woorde promises, and past involvment with RAZOR have led to some taking exception with your decisions. Do you think a debate will negate any of that? Do you think peoples opinions within this hobby are so shallow that a debate with Jeff will somehow overshadow them? Help them see their opinions are wrong??
The Brian Gray I know, the same guy who admittedly made some mistakes and owns up to them, would never want to do what you have suggested. THe BG I know, or thought I knew, took criticism (good and bad) and used it to better himself, his company.
Ian Stewart
Active member
- Aug 7, 2008
- 2,843
- 0
In.
Confidence and Arrogance are very close, You lost me for good when you started trying to get members to bet you $200K on stupid legal stuff. I'm glad you have made it and congrats on having that kind of bank roll...I just won't be contributing to it.
David Campos
Member
+1
Is it just me or does Brian dig himself even further with these challenges. Sorry Brian but your arrogance comes across just as well as it does for Mr. Mint.
Happy endings and glass half full? Oh vey....
- Thread starter
- #30
I understand your thoughts. I'd also be happy to answer questions on FCB podcast without a "debate" format..
The fact is anyone that has spent time talking to me in person knows that things are not as they seem (orare made to be seen) on a message board.
The fact is some issues are legit (and we deserve a chance for a more personal than typing response).
Some issues and statements are NOT legit and I should have a chance to refute this...
I appreciate your well thought out post, however I must disagree with the thought I should blindly accept faulted go sit in the corner quietly..
Whatever the format, I would like to address all FCB concerns in a public manner (and that includes accepting fault wherein lies).
BG
Casebusters
Active member
what about a conference call type podcast like they had before...
Not sure if that was the only one (the one I called in to)
Not sure if that was the only one (the one I called in to)
- Thread starter
- #32
I honestly am sick of constant rehash without a fair venue to rebuttle..
Debate, discussion, FCB podcast q&a.. I don't care..
If trying to address concerns scares you away from my products, so be it..
I have won more customers for my willingness to out myself out there, than the vocal minority who are constantly on the prowl with hate (sometime legit, sometimes for sport)...
The point was I owe answers for some things and deserve a venue to reply on those that are false..
How is THAT arrogant? It's just plain fair...
BG
- Thread starter
- #33
BunchOBull
Active member
As a Freemason, I like the donation idea. The Shriners' Hospitals are set up well, but the Rite can always use funds.
ThoseBackPages
New member
this needs to take place at the National next year
matfanofold
Active member
- Aug 10, 2008
- 7,645
- 1
I did not mean to suggest that you accept fault (where possibly unfounded) and "go sit in a corner" as you put it, but quite the contrary. You are, and have been, open to any and everyones concerns on a personal level when people sought out a more meaningful response that what can be aquired via a message board. And everyone knows that if what you ask for takes place, it can ONLY end badly for you and the image of LEAF. This will be the only draw to a spetacle like what you are asking for, for people to watch LEAF be confronted by the 'small guy' and take it on the chin. And it will not even matter what is said, what is debated, that is how it will be seen. If this is what you want, then I assume FCB would have no problem helping you tie the knot for what some may consider 'entertainment', and by entertainment I mean listen to LEAF get blasted, your words in that forum would not even matter, dont you understand this?
I have to say this Brian, but whoever planted this idea in your head either has it out for you, lacks the understanding of a 'debate' and public perception, or simply does not understand that most of what could be brought up in this debate can only end with you saying "I've learned from that, in hindsight it was a mistake, ect..." over and over.... If you simply NEED to address issues on a open forum, please rethink what you are trying to do and hopefully you will come to understand that a debate, or open question arena, populated by collectors who simply have a bone to pick over what has already been done is a no win situation for LEAF. The possible benefit you could get out of this (being getting your opinion or perspective of the facts) out there will be overshadowed by the circus of having one/some openly drag you through the mud again...
If this were to take place, what do you think we will be talking about the next day? The next week? What do you think this will do for LEAF?
Option 1. 'That Brian Gray surely cleared up many things I had concerns about and perhaps was wrong about. He is a stand up guy and the LEAF brand is now a top choice for me!"
or...
Option 2. 'Did you hear that debate the other day? Man that was great hearing "insert member(s) name here" blast BG/LEAF for all the shady stuff we ALL know he did. What a joke he is making himself/LEAF out to be..."
As your PR advisor I highly advise 2 things.
1. Do not do that.
2. Donate to the charity you mentioned above anyway.
EDIT: Want to know whats 'fair'? Continue to make products the best you can and give the hobby the right to discuss, complain, and or rant about what they want to. You use the hobby as a means to an end, a resource for harvesting money. Thoes who put that money in to the hobby earned the right to complain, right or wrong. At the end of the day, you like your products speak for themselvs, right? Why get caught up in the spectacle of public bickering, expecially in the event format of a public 'debate'...? Come on my man...
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David Campos
Member
Vocal minority? Haha...get real. This must be your one platform that tolerates you and a means for you to keep pimping your products. You're like the Kardashians of the card market. Gotta find a way to stay in the press somehow, some way.
I got a chuckle out of constant rehash. Nice double entendre for your product lines.
Does anyone have a count on the amount of times Brian has said he was done with this site, only to come back when he has a new product to promote? Jamie Moyer would be proud of your comebacks.
- Thread starter
- #38
You are too funny.
I'll let the products and the 16 straight sell out products do the talking...
BG
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I think this would be a great opportunity for BG to clear the air on a number of questions collectors have. Unfortunately, I predict as soon as the debate becomes interesting, the debate will be locked by CG like every other Leaf thread.
I must admit, I do respect BG for offering this type interaction with collectors.
I must admit, I do respect BG for offering this type interaction with collectors.
- Thread starter
- #40
Thank you for a voice of reason...
Nothing would get locked down if the thread was a serious idea exchange...
Unfortunately, FCB allows posts that are either completely off topic or designed to derail meaningful discussion. For this reason, I am the only manufacturer with the balls (or lack of brains,lol) to face the firing squad!
BG
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