Have you any of you pulled a 08 Chrome Draft Auto Retail

[Jaypers]

Some stores in my area now use glass cases for their sports cards. Clearly they've gotten enough complaints about pack searchers to do so.

Made no difference to me, though - I used to buy sealed blasters. Before they used glass, I didn't buy loose packs. Maybe blisters, but not loose packs.

Until Universal Truth # 5 kicked in.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

Again this all depends on the person who is doing the searching or who you are asking.I mean...I think its wrong as do countless others.

And the majority of people don't think it's wrong.

I think this is the crux of the argument. We can all agree that, without damage or outright stealing, there is nothing in the written law that prevents packsearching. Whether or not the issue is a moral one is up to individuals, and you two can argue and argue (as you have) without convincing each other. But the question of ethics is one of a social construct. I cannot speak to the majority opinion on packsearching, as plainwhitejerseys feels he can, but if he is correct in his assertion about the majority, than he is correct on the question of ethics. Now, I think the majority opinion is not so easily discernible, and I also feel that we could conceivably set up parameters for who exactly has a say in the ethical decision (a notion which I'm guessing plainwhitejerseys would laugh at).

I think it's an interesting dialog. Hypothetically for me, as I don't bust wax.

 

[predatorkj]

Again this all depends on the person who is doing the searching or who you are asking.I mean...I think its wrong as do countless others.

And the majority of people don't think it's wrong.

I think this is the crux of the argument. We can all agree that, without damage or outright stealing, there is nothing in the written law that prevents packsearching. Whether or not the issue is a moral one is up to individuals, and you two can argue and argue (as you have) without convincing each other. But the question of ethics is one of a social construct. I cannot speak to the majority opinion on packsearching, as plainwhitejerseys feels he can, but if he is correct in his assertion about the majority, than he is correct on the question of ethics. Now, I think the majority opinion is not so easily discernible, and I also feel that we could conceivably set up parameters for who exactly has a say in the ethical decision (a notion which I'm guessing plainwhitejerseys would laugh at).

I think it's an interesting dialog. Hypothetically for me, as I don't bust wax.

See...that's where I gave up.No I didn't take an ethics class in college but I'm pretty sure I understood what he wrote.He is not the only person who ever took a class on ethics.If I want and ethics lesson its a phone call away.My uncle would be able to give me a similar spill.

My point is ethics is (in layman's terms) based on a society or cultures opinions or views.There are many things that are considered unethical that are against the law and some that are not.But its all about what society as a whole considers ethical.What a society considers ethical regulates to a degree what they will and will not allow or do.Look at murder for instance.Why is it against the law?Because it is considered unethical.If people really didn't think murder was unethical...would there be a law against it?If people didn't feel rape or stealing was unethical(as a society or as a whole) would it be against the law?No.Because the laws and the way people act are dictated by society's ethics.


And my point on the part where he said he can speak for the majority...that's an idiotic statement.I am not trying to call him and idiot but how the hell can anyone speak for the whole?For everybody?I never said I was doing so either because its a dumb thing to say.I merely said I'd hazard a guess(from who I have talked to personally) that its something people would not enjoy or agree with.People normally don't like things that are a disadvantage to them.Normally, as a general rule of thumb, the only people who do enjoy something like that are the people who didn't get the short end of the stick.


I don't wish to fight with anyone or even argue.I like to debate but from what I gather...the way some people think is just way too different from my own to do so in a nice manner.It doesn't make me right or them wrong or vice versa.But it gets to the point where you are not only wasting your time but...your views are so different that an argument is imminent.

 

[UMich92]

I would say that the majority (roughly 2:1) of non-hobbyists I have described pack-searching to, have said that they thought it was wrong.

Alex

 

[plainwhitejerseys]

I would say that the majority (roughly 2:1) of non-hobbyists I have described pack-searching to, have said that they thought it was wrong.

Your result was most likely skewed because you poisoned the well as you described it.

Of the non-hobbyists I've told about it, and we're talking maybe 75 people here, I've only come across one person who thought it was wrong. Most everyone else thought it was clever. I described both sets of arguments because I wanted to know what the average person thought. I'm fascinated by the notion that pack searching is immoral, and no matter how many people I ask, not one single person has ever been able to come up with an argument for it being unethical.

 

[predatorkj]

I would say that the majority (roughly 2:1) of non-hobbyists I have described pack-searching to, have said that they thought it was wrong.

Your result was most likely skewed because you poisoned the well as you described it.

Of the non-hobbyists I've told about it, and we're talking maybe 75 people here, I've only come across one person who thought it was wrong. Most everyone else thought it was clever. I described both sets of arguments because I wanted to know what the average person thought. I'm fascinated by the notion that pack searching is immoral, and no matter how many people I ask, not one single person has ever been able to come up with an argument for it being unethical.

Me and two neighbors and my wife all had a small discussion about it.I didn't give my view one way or the other.I think the first words uttered were and I quote "That's F'd up.". Nobody was amused and I was even asked why I even buy cards at those stores then.I then explained the blaster concept.And remember...I didn't out any spin on it.I merely told them there were a few guys debating it and I wanted to ask and find out what others thought.

I am not sure many would deny it being clever but I will continue asking around.In the end though...it won't matter.There will always be some people out there who can't agree or don't see things the same way.No biggie.I'm fine with it.

 

[plainwhitejerseys]

Your argument doesn't make any sense at all. I'd be fine refuting your argument, but you're just kind of babbling about singles or whatever.
My point went waaaaay over your head then.

My analogy was spot on. The part you failed to grasp is the irrelevance of manufacturer intent. Your argument is that pack searching is wrong because the manufacturer didn't intend for you to do it. My analogy illustrated the flaw in your "logic" and pointed out several examples of how people do things that contradict manufacturer intent, and nobody ever thinks twice about it because what the manufacturer intends has absolutely nothing to do with ethics.

Says who?
Says who?
Says who?

If you can tell which pack has the insert, who says the manufacturer didn't want you to be able to find it?

If someone can find a way around that roadblock without violating the law or doing something immoral, more power to them.


Again, take an ethics class in college.

I'm sorry, but I'm an educated man who has taken grad school classes in ethics (my grad advisor specialized in ethics and forced us to take more ethics courses than I would have ever wanted to take - I found the whole thing boring, but I learned it) arguing with a guy who clearly has no concept of what ethics are. No offense. I don't know the first thing about cricket or engine repair.
You're confusing value judgments with ethics.

If it's crazy, it's not logical. You can't "justify" something with "crazy logic". There's no such thing.

That's like calling someone a "liberal conservative" or a "right-handed southpaw".

If you believe that, you watch too many movies. People count cards every single day without getting caught. People get caught every single day and go back to that same casino the next day.

etc. etc. etc. etc.

man alive, been a while since I had to dust this off. Well over a year. In that time the movie has been taken down, and it appears I cannot embed just an audio file. Oh well, this will have to do.

Dedicated to you plainwhitejerseys

[youtube:13ne5oa1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaS-TD4pQ-g[/youtube:13ne5oa1]

I hope ya flip some guy the bird
He cuts you off and you're forced to swerve
In front of the Beatles' tour bus
A Bookmobile and a Mack truck
Hauling hazardous biological waste
The light turns red you have no brakes
And "Hard Copy" gets it all on tape
So you can see the look on your face

Die Die Die Die Die Die Die
Die Die Die Die Die Die Die

You wish death upon people who disagree with you? Wow.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you voted for Obama and consider yourself a Keith Olbermann fan. That type of irrational hatred for opposing viewpoints is almost exclusively found in "open-minded" liberals.

 

[Jeff D]

You wish death upon people who disagree with you? Wow.

What, is that unethical or something?

 

[predatorkj]

Your argument doesn't make any sense at all. I'd be fine refuting your argument, but you're just kind of babbling about singles or whatever.
My point went waaaaay over your head then.

My analogy was spot on. The part you failed to grasp is the irrelevance of manufacturer intent. Your argument is that pack searching is wrong because the manufacturer didn't intend for you to do it. My analogy illustrated the flaw in your "logic" and pointed out several examples of how people do things that contradict manufacturer intent, and nobody ever thinks twice about it because what the manufacturer intends has absolutely nothing to do with ethics.

Says who?
Says who?
Says who?

If you can tell which pack has the insert, who says the manufacturer didn't want you to be able to find it?

If someone can find a way around that roadblock without violating the law or doing something immoral, more power to them.


Again, take an ethics class in college.

I'm sorry, but I'm an educated man who has taken grad school classes in ethics (my grad advisor specialized in ethics and forced us to take more ethics courses than I would have ever wanted to take - I found the whole thing boring, but I learned it) arguing with a guy who clearly has no concept of what ethics are. No offense. I don't know the first thing about cricket or engine repair.
You're confusing value judgments with ethics.

If it's crazy, it's not logical. You can't "justify" something with "crazy logic". There's no such thing.

That's like calling someone a "liberal conservative" or a "right-handed southpaw".

If you believe that, you watch too many movies. People count cards every single day without getting caught. People get caught every single day and go back to that same casino the next day.

etc. etc. etc. etc.

man alive, been a while since I had to dust this off. Well over a year. In that time the movie has been taken down, and it appears I cannot embed just an audio file. Oh well, this will have to do.

Dedicated to you plainwhitejerseys

[youtube:2ot28wq2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaS-TD4pQ-g[/youtube:2ot28wq2]

I hope ya flip some guy the bird
He cuts you off and you're forced to swerve
In front of the Beatles' tour bus
A Bookmobile and a Mack truck
Hauling hazardous biological waste
The light turns red you have no brakes
And "Hard Copy" gets it all on tape
So you can see the look on your face

Die Die Die Die Die Die Die
Die Die Die Die Die Die Die

You wish death upon people who disagree with you? Wow.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you voted for Obama and consider yourself a Keith Olbermann fan. That type of irrational hatred for opposing viewpoints is almost exclusively found in "open-minded" liberals.

Its a joke I am sure.Not sure it has anything to do with politics.I do love how every time someone does or says something it can be related directly to what kind of politics they support.I have people tell em I say things that lean a certain way sometimes but I am also quick to inform them I don't believe politics as they currently stand are worth a crap at all and I support none of it as a whole.Its all a bunch of hogwash.

 

[predatorkj]

You wish death upon people who disagree with you? Wow.

What, is that unethical or something?

:lol:

 

[Wes]

I'd say this debate has run its course...