Hockey Patch forger caught

[MartinFFcollector]

Unsure if this has been posted, not a Hockey fan...
Caught altering Hockey cards.


http://www.hobbyinsider.net/forum/showthread.php?t=201402

Ugh.... you have to sign in/register to view the link. weak. Basically he was/is switching patches in Hockey cards.

Patch forger... caught!

This investigation by HI members has been ongoing for awhile now. Having evidence is always critical in finding a true forger, and we now have substantial enough information to send to eBay, Upper Deck and the RCMP, along with the eBay members who bought his forged cards. This is not defined as "fraud", but "forgery", under the Criminal Code of Canada. It will be interesting to see how this moves forward, but for now... this forger is CAUGHT.

Using at least two eBay IDs, this person has done several questionable purchases, forgeries and re-sells; however, I am showing ONLY those fake patch cards that are bulletproof obvious. There are about a dozen other auctions we have been watching... waiting for forged versions to show up. In some cases, he bought, forged & sold the cards under the same user ID (hnic_787); in other cases, he sold under the second ID (kao_seneca), likely to try and cover some tracks. His note in his auctions at the bottom says “I am a new Ebay seller, but I am honest and will try my best to provide the best service possible. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me, Bid with confidence! THANKS!” Honest, eh?

eBay contact information for one of the usernames, provided by an HI member, shows his full name & address; the other is listed under another name. After being provided emails from two different HI members on two different occasions, we were able to source the IP addresses of both eBay IDs, which are identical. As well, those IP addresses are linked directly to an HI membership IP address. Interestingly, the cell phones linked to both members’ eBay accounts were registered at the same cell phone shop in downtown Toronto. Just another nail in the coffin.

Here is the information we have to share:

Some evidence showing the two eBay IDs are likely the same person. Notice the way these somewhat identical cards are detailed:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280320483252

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170329622285

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220369075331

http://cgi.ebay.com/07-08-UD-The-CUP-LIMITED-LOGOS-AUTO-PATCH-MALKIN-25-4C_W0QQitemZ170329804511

15/20

41/50

 

[pghbuccos]

thanks for posting this here. I read the thread this morning on HI and was going to post it here as well.

it's good that this person was caught and it will be interesting to see what happens to them.

 

[adamcm]

Woo hoo, glad they caught him.

Thanks for posting!

 

[G $MONEY$]

Chris Carlin from Upper Deck actually posts over on Hobby Insider. Heres his response...



Just wanted to chime in quickly here as Bruce shared this post with me. I won't be able to go back and forth on this so I apologize, but just wanted to at least explain our position on it and answer some questions that came up.

When we see situations like this, we look at legal action we can take. If we believe there is a case we usually will go after them on copyright infringement. They have changed our product where we authenticate a game-used swatch is used and they have changed it. For a variety of reasons, we don't comment on cases filed and what happens to people we go after, but we certainly do not turn a blind eye to it. I shared this thread with our legal team and they are reviewing.

I also shared the thread with our head of creative who ended up coming in my office shortly after I sent it over to discuss this. He's a pretty busy guy, but he came over because he takes it very seriously. He shared that we continue to look at ways to deter this practice of changing swatches out. We have looked at adding die-packs, stitching the swatch to the card, adding microfibers to the card and even sealing the edges, but the costs tied to these are pretty extreme to say the least. We discussed it and I'm of the belief these extra costs are not worth putting in because ultimately, you will end up paying for some of that.

We have taken preventative action and made scans before, but that too is very difficult as the timing on everything is so tight and counts need to be taken anytime you move cards. Additionally, you do not want to risk damaging the cards during that process either. We want to limit the handling of higher-end cards like this as much as possible. It sounds so easy, but when you do it, you realize what a big deal it is to pull off.

It’s tough, as you know where there is money to be made there are always those who are looking to take advantage. These people just care about the fast buck and after they’ve been kicked off e-bay, message boards and threatened with legal action, they pop up again under a different name. In my opinion they are like cockroaches. Luckily there are more of us than there are of them to shine a light on what they do. So on behalf of Upper Deck and myself as a sports card afficianado, thank you for any and all of your efforts to deter this practice and make examples of these people.

Chris Carlin

 

[MartinFFcollector]

You beat me to it. Thanks !

 

[G $MONEY$]

For this to stop, UD is gonna have to go the route of In The Game. In The Game has been using BGS encapsulation, for a number of years, with one of their high end products called Ultimate memorabilia.



ITG's other high-end product, Superlative, comes out of the pack in a top loader with a company seal over the top loader. This is definitely keeping their products from being tampered with.

 

[MartinFFcollector]

As long as those top loader stickers can not be easily removed like Topps/Bowman Originals can. I like the idea.

 

[Groat]

For this to stop, UD is gonna have to go the route of In The Game. In The Game has been using BGS encapsulation, for a number of years, with one of their high end products called Ultimate memorabilia.

ITG's other high-end product, Superlative, comes out of the pack in a top loader with a company seal over the top loader. This is definitely keeping their products from being tampered with.

While these are both certainly decently effective ways of stopping patch faking, I feel that there have to be better ways. BGS holders are decent, but they're more difficult to show off than a smaller holder. Some type of BGS holder that didn't have the part at the top would be better in my opinion. As far as top loaders with tape go, they just kind of look cheap and are not the best way of protecting your collection. I'd much rather put my cards into a one-touch type holder than a top loader.

I suppose it really is all simply a matter of opinion though.

 

[G $MONEY$]

For this to stop, UD is gonna have to go the route of In The Game. In The Game has been using BGS encapsulation, for a number of years, with one of their high end products called Ultimate memorabilia.

ITG's other high-end product, Superlative, comes out of the pack in a top loader with a company seal over the top loader. This is definitely keeping their products from being tampered with.

While these are both certainly decently effective ways of stopping patch faking, I feel that there have to be better ways. BGS holders are decent, but they're more difficult to show off than a smaller holder. Some type of BGS holder that didn't have the part at the top would be better in my opinion. As far as top loaders with tape go, they just kind of look cheap and are not the best way of protecting your collection. I'd much rather put my cards into a one-touch type holder than a top loader.

I suppose it really is all simply a matter of opinion though.

I really didn't think i would care for the ITG top loaders at all, but they kind of grew on me (75% of my collection is in toploaders/penny sleeves anyways). Of course once you obtained a card that you knew was PC, you could put it in any holder you wanted. It would just be a cost-effective way to know you are getting the real thing. Better than the "protection" UD is offering right now anyways.

 

[meatmancgy]

Alas, we have another confirmed fake found, since this first grouping was posted, from the same seller:

05/06 The Cup Limited Logos Roberto Luongo 7/40
Original Scan

Link to Original eBay Auction: 05/06 UD THE CUP LOGOS AUTO PATCH ROBERTO LUONGO 7/40 - eBay (item 350175069037 end time Mar-14-09 18:45:00 PDT)

Altered Scan

An HI member has confirmed it was purchased at the Expo from this same patch forger, and you can see the eBay buyer ID is identical to the hnic_787 ID, including the private feedback.

 

[adamcm]

Ugh...i'm not sure what a solution would be, but I hope things like this can eventually be prevented.

 

[G $MONEY$]

That fake Luongo looks amazing and shows absolutely zero signs of any tampering.

 

[mstng99tim]

UD has the solution, they're just either too stupid to realize it or they really don't care what happens to their cards once they're paid for and are shipped. I've been saying it ever since these cards came out, that this is the answer to the patch fakers. The card you see below has a jersey swatch UNDER a thin clear plastic layer and the auto is on top of that thin plastic layer. Now if this was the same card but with a patch, how would you get the patch out to replace it with a better one???

 

[adamcm]

UD has the solution, they're just either too stupid to realize it or they really don't care what happens to their cards once they're paid for and are shipped. I've been saying it ever since these cards came out, that this is the answer to the patch fakers. The card you see below has a jersey swatch UNDER a thin clear plastic layer and the auto is on top of that thin plastic layer. Now if this was the same card but with a patch, how would you get the patch out to replace it with a better one???

Ya that's not a bad idea at all. Hopefully something is done! Makes you wonder which patches are real and which are fake.

 

[chisox3706]

what a waste of that malkin and kane ::facepalm::

im glad he was caught. he should be castrated.

 

[gomaz]

he should be castrated.

I'd like to see him severely punished, but let's leave his junk in tact :lol:

As G$ posted in another thread, I have been invited to this year's pack-out of The Cup to photograph and document the patch cards. Once I am back from this mission, I will update as many collectors as possible at all the sites including this one, which I have heard great things about.

Wish me luck, its going to be a challenge to photograph all the cards...so I am undergoing proper photography training to ensure I make the most of it.

Cheers,
Jeremy

 

[Card Magnet]

he should be castrated.

I'd like to see him severely punished, but let's leave his junk in tact :lol:

Why?

 

[G $MONEY$]

he should be castrated.

I'd like to see him severely punished, but let's leave his junk in tact :lol:

As G$ posted in another thread, I have been invited to this year's pack-out of The Cup to photograph and document the patch cards. Once I am back from this mission, I will update as many collectors as possible at all the sites including this one, which I have heard great things about.

Wish me luck, its going to be a challenge to photograph all the cards...so I am undergoing proper photography training to ensure I make the most of it.

Cheers,
Jeremy

Jeremy glad you finally signed up The Baseball boards here are very busy, as everyone from BMB moved over here last summer, we just gotta get the Hockey boards going, which they will in time. Welcome to the fastest growing and busiest card site on the internet!

 

[G $MONEY$]

he should be castrated.

I'd like to see him severely punished, but let's leave his junk in tact :lol:

Why?

why? Because Its his balls man, why do you think? ::facepalm:: We'll just put him on high doses of Oxy for a few weeks, the suddenly take it away from him, that will be severe punishment enough, but yeah leave the poor guys junk alone. :lol:

 

[Card Magnet]

[quote="Card Magnet":3g06tm76]

he should be castrated.

I'd like to see him severely punished, but let's leave his junk in tact :lol:

Why?

why? Because Its his balls man, why do you think? ::facepalm:: We'll just put him on high doses of Oxy for a few weeks, the suddenly take it away from him, that will be severe punishment enough, but yeah leave the poor guys junk alone. :lol:[/quote:3g06tm76]
If somebody is trying to steal their money, I don't care about their man parts.