HOF Discussion: Curt Schilling

[scotty21690]

Is he a HOFer??

.597 career W%
128 ERA+ (10 pts higher than HOFer Blyleven!)
3,000+ Ks (3261 IP)
only 711 BBs
3 300K seasons
1.137 career WHIP
4.38 career K/BB <---second highest OF ALL TIME
One of the best postseason pitchers: 11-2 2.23 ERA (3 WS rings)


Vote and explain your thoughts.

 

[MOFNY]

The stats you posted are HOF-worthy.

 

[Mr.Whipple]

Scott, Your date must of really tickled your pickle tonight something fearse tonight.

I say he is a 1st ballot.

 

[mlbsalltimegreats]

He is without a doubt first Ballot and for the reasons you listed above but epecially - One of the best postseason pitchers: 11-2 2.23 ERA (3 WS rings)

The Guy was simply clutch when it came to being in the biggest of games (and it wasnt just 1 or 2 post season games). That alone warrents 1st ballot consideration!

 

[scotty21690]

Good stuff guys....

I am wondering where SamHell went


It's a shame he had to be on the same team as Randy Johnson though...or else he may just have a couple Cy Youngs. But IMO he is a much better pitcher than a dozen of the current HOF pitchers....he was a very dominant pitcher who not only struck out many many batters, but walked very few (Roy Halladay, anyone?). Not to mention he was "okay" in big games.

 

[dano7]

Even as a Yankee fan, I have to say yes. His stats are excellent and he pitched memorable games in the postseason.
DANNY

 

[SilverandBlack]

I say Schilling should join his bloody sock in the hall. Not sure hes first ballott but he belongs

 

[SamHell]

I think he's in. He was very good for several years along some just amazing seasons(97,01,02,07). His post season work speaks for itself. He has pissed off a bunch of writers and is pretty political so that might hurt him but I think he gets on his 2nd or 3rd try. What is interesting is who is in the his first voting class...Bonds, Sosa, Clemens, Piazza and Biggio.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

I say Schilling should join his bloody sock in the hall. Not sure hes first ballott but he belongs

I don't see him as first ballot either but he should get in.

 

[scotty21690]

What surprised me is how Jack Morris got over 50% of votes on the ballot. Jack Morris? No disrespect, as he was a fantastic pitcher....but hardly HOF worthy. Just goes to show you how weak the ballot was. I mean a 105 ERA+? Barely over average for his career. 1.296 WHIP? Good for 441st All Time.

Blyleven actually looks like a HOFer next to Morris..

 

[muskiesfan]

Schilling definitely should get elected and he certainly deserves to be elected. I'm not so sure it will be first ballot though. I have no other reason for that than the fact that the writers seem to be fickle. I could honestly see them intentionally making him wait until his second year of eligibility.

As for Blyleven, I've always felt that he was a HOFer. I know there are some who disagree, I just don't see how. The compiler argument is weak and tired. For a player to last 20+ seasons in MLB, evidently teams felt he still had something to offer.

 

[Guest]

As a full-fledged disciple of Bill James my calculator makes it a tough call on Schilling. He was a good pitcher, great in his day, but I'd be hard pressed to classify him among the all-time greats. Interestingly, my calculator places Blyleven above Schilling.

Here are the modern era (post-1900) starting pitchers in the HOF my calculator places BENEATH Schilling: Gomez, Lefty, Plank, Eddie, Dean, Dizzy, Faber, Red, Wynn, Early, Chesbro, Jack, Sutton, Don, Ruffing, Red, Lemon, Bob, Joss, Addie, Hunter, Catfish, Pennock, Herb, Lyons, Ted, Grimes, Burleigh, Ford, Whitey, Rixey, Eppa, Marquard, Rube, Bender, Chief, Hoyt, Waite, Haines, Jesse

 

[piggy1918]

He's not a first ballot because everyone deserves to wait a year... it's good for their modesty or something.







::facepalm::

I get ticked when I hear writers mentioning this. If he is worthy, vote for him. If not, leave him off. Simple as that. What year this is for him should never come into play. Oh, and I whole-heartedly agree he is worthy of the first ballot HOF.

 

[scotty21690]

SamHell - was your previous post sarcasm? You seemed to argue against him being a HOFer but sarcasm doesn't translate well through text.




Anyways we all agree he will get in....but does anyone think he will get in on the first ballot? Seems that not many players do nowadays, but he will be in a class of candidates with steroid allegations which IMO will hurt them (whether they are guilty or innocent...don't want to crack open that bottle....) as shown by Bagwell, Juan Gonz, McGwire, etc....

 

[scotty21690]

As a full-fledged disciple of Bill James my calculator makes it a tough call on Schilling. He was a good pitcher, great in his day, but I'd be hard pressed to classify him among the all-time greats. Interestingly, my calculator places Blyleven above Schilling.

Here are the modern era (post-1900) starting pitchers in the HOF my calculator places BENEATH Schilling: Gomez, Lefty, Plank, Eddie, Dean, Dizzy, Faber, Red, Wynn, Early, Chesbro, Jack, Sutton, Don, Ruffing, Red, Lemon, Bob, Joss, Addie, Hunter, Catfish, Pennock, Herb, Lyons, Ted, Grimes, Burleigh, Ford, Whitey, Rixey, Eppa, Marquard, Rube, Bender, Chief, Hoyt, Waite, Haines, Jesse

How does the calculator work, Chris?


He may not be an "all-time great" ala Randy Johnson and/or Bob Gibson, etc...but I think he is a sure fire HOFer. Does the calculator take post season success into the equation?

 

[SamHell]

SamHell - was your previous post sarcasm? You seemed to argue against him being a HOFer but sarcasm doesn't translate well through text.

Yes it was. I thought you might have missed the small text underneath. Sorry bout that.

 

[scotty21690]

SamHell - was your previous post sarcasm? You seemed to argue against him being a HOFer but sarcasm doesn't translate well through text.

Yes it was. I thought you might have missed the small text underneath. Sorry bout that.

LOL I fail :mrgreen:


Ah well....a good FCB debate never hurts. This board has been pretty dry lately as it was (see sig)

 

[SamHell]

Ah well....a good FCB debate never hurts. This board has been pretty dry lately as it was (see sig)

It's all good. I'm up for a good debate as well. I just think a little more highly of Blyleven than you!

Just to throw something into the discussion, check out Orel Hershiser's stats. He is a decent comparable to Schilling. He obviously wasn't a strikeout pitcher like Schilling, but he was pretty damn good. He fell off the ballot after two years. Not saying he is HOF worthy but I think he deserved more consideration than he got.

 

[scotty21690]

Ah well....a good FCB debate never hurts. This board has been pretty dry lately as it was (see sig)

It's all good. I'm up for a good debate as well. I just think a little more highly of Blyleven than you!

Just to throw something into the discussion, check out Orel Hershiser's stats. He is a decent comparable to Schilling. He obviously wasn't a strikeout pitcher like Schilling, but he was pretty damn good. He fell off the ballot after two years. Not saying he is HOF worthy but I think he deserved more consideration than he got.

Hershiser was a very good pitcher and you are right, doesn't seem to get much love. Although he was not as good as Schilling (IMO)

128 ERA+/112 ERA+
1.137 WHIP/1.261 WHIP


Though Mr. Hershiser did have a great amount of postseason success

 

[UMich92]

With full realization that each of the following measures have their flaws, they are useful in comparing players both in and out of the HOF. The following are the Baseball Reference Hall of Fame statistics for Blyleven, Schilling, Morris, Hershiser, Kaat, and John.

Black Ink (avg HOFer ? 40), Gray Ink (avg HOFer ? 185), HOF Monitor (likely HOFer ? 100), HOF Standards (avg HOFer ? 50).

Blyleven: 16, 237, 120, 50
Schilling: 42, 205, 171, 46
Morris: 20, 193, 122, 39
Hershiser: 20, 129, 90, 34
Kaat: 16, 125, 130, 44
John: 11, 134, 112, 44

Based on those numbers, Schilling is a lock. Interesting to see that he doubled the other pitchers in the category (Black Ink) based on league leading stats as well as far outpacing the others in the HOF Monitor category. Based on this I would rank the pitchers as Schilling >> Blyleven > Morris > Kaat > John > Hershiser as I believe the Gray Ink (league top tens) puts Blyleven and Morris solidly ahead of the others.