How do Harper & Trout compare to Ted Williams, ages 20-24 in MLB?

[bmp1971]

Here's a statistical comparison of Ted Williams, Bryce Harper, and Mike Trout, through their first four seasons in MLB-- all aged 20-24 at the time of these stats:

TED WILLIAMS: 586 G, 2104 AB, 749 H, 541 R, 154 2B, 33 3B, 127 HR, 515 RBI, .356 BA, 1.129 OPS, 11/11 SB/CS


BRYCE HARPER: 510 G, 1830 AB, 528 H, 328 R, 98 2B, 15 3B, 97 HR, 248 RBI, .289 BA, .902 OPS, 37/16 SB/CS

MIKE TROUT: 493 G, 1873 AB, 572 H, 373 R, 111 2B, 28 3B, 99 HR, 307 RBI, .305 BA, .891 OPS, 102/14 SB/CS


Just wanted to see how these young guns compared to perhaps the greatest hitter of all time. I chose the first 4 years since that's all we've got to go on with Harper-- Trout's one year older than Bryce, so I didn't include his stats from this past season (aged 25).

HR PER AB:

WILLIAMS 1/16.57
HARPER: 1/18.87
TROUT: 1/18.92

Draw your own conclusions!

 

[MisterT]

Comparing like this is always interesting, but somewhat skewed (and I am a huge Williams fan). This tells me that, at this age, he was more advanced than the pitchers he faced (as compared to Trout & Harper and the pitchers they face - for whatever reason). Who is to say what numbers Ted would put up today, or Trout/Harper in 1939-1942). Obviously Ted loses the next 3 years to the war and the "what could have been" theories. Don't get me wrong, I think if Ted walked on the field today, he would be amazing - especially if he could take advantage of the advanced training techniques available today!

It is a very interesting comparison. But, I try to only compare people of the same time period against each other. There are too many uncertainties to compare across the decades. That being said, I certainly agree with you that Ted was the best hitter of all time.

 

[mlbsalltimegreats]

My conclusion is they don't even compare (especially Harper) and this thread is laughable! Sorry just what I think.

 

[Topnotchsy]

My conclusion is they don't even compare (especially Harper) and this thread is laughable! Sorry just what I think.

I may be wrong but I think that that was what the OP was trying to point out. While we watch Harper and Trout with a degree of amazement, it is worth remembering just how good some of the players from previous generations were.

Of course he may be highlighting just how poor a base stealer Williams was...

 

[phillyfan0417]

I may be wrong but I think that that was what the OP was trying to point out. While we watch Harper and Trout with a degree of amazement, it is worth remembering just how good some of the players from previous generations were.

I guess my question is who has ever questioned that?

Just because today we choose to talk about modern players doesn't mean it says anything about those of the past.

 

[cgilmo]

You can't compare players across eras like this. There are other factors at play.

 

[metallicalex777]

You can't compare players across eras like this. There are other factors at play.

Sure you can, the OP already did

I do agree, this is a fun comparison but there are way too many anomalies to truly make for a reality argument. Technology and historic tracking of performance and working out alone separates both eras. As a hitter, Teddy vs. Harper/Trout can only be compared by their numbers, but their daily routines and fundamentals are vastly different. Throw in how pitchers pitched and what they knew at the time, as well as how many innings and consecutive days pitched in the 50's versus today also adds to the difference back then and now. This is all stuff we already know, and sometimes reminds me of those ridiculous Discovery Channel shows where they try to decide who would win in a fight between T-Rex and Gigantasaurus.

 

[cgilmo]

OK... Well you shouldn't do it.

 

[tribefan26]

I don't think the stats presented are apples to apples - Williams was born August 30, 1918 - so he was 20 at the start of the 1939 season - He turned 24 just before the end of the 1942 season.

Trout was born August 7, 1991. He was still 19 at the start of the 2011 season - he was 20 when called up, but I think the 2012-2015 seasons are a more age appropriate comparison. He's 23 days older in this period than Williams. Including the 2011 call-up has a meaningful impact on the comparison,

Harper was born October 16, 1992 - he was 19 for the entire 2012 season - so his 2013-2015 seasons compare to Trout's 2012-2014 and Williams 1939-1941 seasons. He doesn't have a 24 year-old season until this year.

The comparisons still show how remarkable Williams was, but I think they are closer:

Here are the 4 yr comparsions (replacing 2011 with 2015 for Trout)

TED WILLIAMS: 586 G, 2104 AB, 749 H, 541 R, 154 2B, 33 3B, 127 HR, 515 RBI, .356 BA, 1.129 OPS, 11/11 SB/CS

MIKE TROUT: 612 G, 2325 AB, 717 H, 457 R, 137 2B, 32 3B, 134 HR, 381 RBI, .308 BA, .970 OPS, 109/21 SB/CS

for the three years for each I have:

TED WILLIAMS: 436 G, 1582 AB, 563 H, 400 R, 120 2B, 28 3B, 91 HR, 378 RBI, .356 BA, 1.114 OPS, 8/9 SB/CS

BRYCE HARPER: 371 G, 1297 AB, 384 H, 230 R, 72 2B, 6 3B, 75 HR, 189 RBI, .296 BA, .936 OPS, 19/10 SB/CS

MIKE TROUT: 453 G, 1750 AB, 545 H, 353 R, 105 2B, 26 3B, 93 HR, 291 RBI, .311 BA, .963 OPS, 98/14 SB/CS

If Harper were to repeat last years performance his four stats would look like this:

BRYCE HARPER: 524 G, 1818 AB, 556 H, 348 R, 110 2B, 7 3B, 117 HR, 288 RBI, .306 BA, .986 OPS, 25/14 SB/CS

 

[metallicalex777]

OK... Well you shouldn't do it.

 

[16christensen16]

I compare trout and mantle. Through both players year 23 seasons here are there stats:

trout. Mantle
652. 658. Games played
2877. 2411. Plate appearances
477. 510. Runs scored
744. 719. Hits
143. 114. Doubles
32. 38. Triples
139. 121. Home runs
397. 445. Rbi
113. 33. Stolen bases
.304. .298. Avg

this is a better comparison, stats look pretty similiAr to me!
what does everyone think?

 

[death2redemptions]

But how do their numbers compare to the Big Cat or Vizquel? That's the real test.

 

[bmp1971]

You can't compare players across eras like this. There are other factors at play.

I didn't post the stats to prove anything or to create some petty arguments about whether we could or couldn't even compare the stats at all. These stats simply show what each of these guys accomplished at the plate in their first four years in MLB, while being the same age, more or less (20-24).

With all the hype around the amazingness of Trout and Harper, I'm in awe of what Williams did in his first four years, and I merely wanted to show what he did compared to these mega-stars of today. I noted that you can draw your own conclusions, which some of you did.

Williams rookie year, at age 20 (turned 21 in Aug 1939):

[TABLE="class: sortable stats_table row_summable"]
[TR]
[TH="class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]Year[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]Age[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]Tm[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip sort_default_asc, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]Lg[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]G[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]PA[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]AB[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]R[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]H[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]2B[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]3B[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]HR[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]RBI[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]SB[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]CS[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]BB[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]SO[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip hide_non_quals, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]BA[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip hide_non_quals, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]OBP[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip hide_non_quals, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]SLG[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip hide_non_quals, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]OPS[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip hide_non_quals, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]OPS+[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]TB[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]GDP[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]HBP[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]SH[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]SF[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]IBB[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip sort_default_asc, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]Pos[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]Awards[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: full hl, bgcolor: #FFFFAA !important"]
[TD="align: left"]1939[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]BOS[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]AL[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]149[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]675[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]565[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]131[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]185[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]44[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]31[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]145[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]107[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]64[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].327[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].436[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].609[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.045[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]160[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]344[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]10[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]*O9[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]MVP-4[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

And he still finished 4th in the MVP voting! DiMaggio hit .381 that year and won the MVP, with Jimmy Foxx (.360), and Bob Feller (24-9, 2.85 ERA) finishing ahead of him also. Has there ever been a better rookie year by anyone at age 20 or younger?

Trout's full rookie year (turning 21 in Aug, 2012):-- but he had the benefit of playing in 40 games the previous year.

[TABLE="class: sortable stats_table row_summable"]
[TR]
[TH="class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]Year[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]Age[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]Tm[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip sort_default_asc, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]Lg[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]G[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]PA[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]AB[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]R[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]H[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]2B[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]3B[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]HR[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]RBI[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]SB[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]CS[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]BB[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]SO[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip hide_non_quals, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]BA[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip hide_non_quals, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]OBP[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip hide_non_quals, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]SLG[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip hide_non_quals, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]OPS[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip hide_non_quals, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]OPS+[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]TB[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]GDP[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]HBP[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]SH[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]SF[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]IBB[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip sort_default_asc, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]Pos[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]Awards[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: full"]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: full hl, bgcolor: #FFFFAA !important"]
[TD="align: left"]2012 ★[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]LAA[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]AL[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]139[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]639[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]559[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]129[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]182[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]27[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]30[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]83[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]49[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]67[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]139[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].326[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].399[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].564[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].963[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]168[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]315[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]*87/9[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]AS,MVP-2,RoY-1,SS[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Harper's full year (age 20-21, turning 21 in Oct. 2013):

[TABLE="class: sortable stats_table row_summable"]
[TR]
[TH="class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]Year[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]Age[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]Tm[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip sort_default_asc, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]Lg[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]G[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]PA[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]AB[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]R[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]H[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]2B[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]3B[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]HR[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]RBI[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]SB[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]CS[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]BB[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]SO[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip hide_non_quals, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]BA[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip hide_non_quals, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]OBP[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip hide_non_quals, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]SLG[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip hide_non_quals, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]OPS[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip hide_non_quals, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]OPS+[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]TB[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]GDP[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]HBP[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]SH[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]SF[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]IBB[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip sort_default_asc, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]Pos[/TH]
[TH="class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center"]Awards[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: full"]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: full hl, bgcolor: #FFFFAA !important"]
[TD="align: left"]2013 ★[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]WSN[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]NL[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]118[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]497[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]424[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]71[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]116[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]24[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]58[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]61[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]94[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].274[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].368[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].486[/TD]
[TD="align: right"].854[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]133[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]206[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]*79/8[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]AS[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Never mind all the other stats, let's see what each accomplished in the BA dept for their first 4 full years at almost exactly the same ages:

Williams -- Harper -- Trout

.327 -- .270 -- .326
.344 -- .274 -- .323
.406 -- .273 -- .287
.356 -- .330 -- .299

 

[AnthonyCorona]

Jeez ol Teddy Ballgame was such a beast. I'm always surprised fans aren't more aware of his greatness. Everyone knows the Yankee greats even non baseball fans know many of them but Ted Williams was amazing

 

[bmp1971]

"Trying to sneak a fastball by Ted Williams was like trying to sneak a sunbeam by a rooster in the morning: it's not going to happen." ~ Bob Feller

 

[linuxabuser]

Wow. Some of you guys take this deadly serious. It was a fun comparison - enjoy it and shut up.

It has no effect on your lives who is or was better, unless you're a bookie in Vegas.

 

[scotty216brs]

Ted Williams 190 OPS+ (20-24)
Mike Trout 173 OPS+ (20-24)

What amazes me about Williams is that even though he was a power hitter who had over 500 HR he was extremely tough to strike out. His AB/K(10.87) is better than that of the best active player (9.71 - Yadi).

Whoever compared Trout to Mantle I think is a much better comparison, as they were similar players. Harper shouldn't be in the discussion yet, because he's only done it for 1 season and struggled to stay healthy before that...but last season was one to remember for him, will be interesting to see if he can repeat or even improve upon those numbers.

 

[nosterbor]

How do Harper & Trout compare to Ted Williams, ages 20-24 in MLB?

"That's a clown question bro"
Bryce Harper

 

[BigAppleJak]

Great stats!
Funny thing is you can pick up a decent copy of Ted's 1939 Play Ball for less than a Harper or Trout Chrome Auto.

 

[bmp1971]

How do Harper & Trout compare to Ted Williams, ages 20-24 in MLB?

"That's a clown question bro"
Bryce Harper

Nice.

Great stats!
Funny thing is you can pick up a decent copy of Ted's 1939 Play Ball for less than a Harper or Trout Chrome Auto.

Purely economics!