How Is Joe Gordon A HOFer But Mattingly Isn't?

[Therion]

Joe Gordon

11 Seasons 1566 5707 914 1530 264 52 253 975 89 60 759 702 .268 .357 .466 120 2657 41 0 0 29 159


Mattingly

14 Seasons 1785 7003 1007 2153 442 20 222 1099 14 9 588 444 .307 .358 .471 127 13 96 136 21 191

EDIT: My point is more than the Veteran's Committee should be disbanded, not that Mattingly should be in.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

VERY different eras and different positions. Getting that production from an above-average fielding 2nd baseman is pretty sweet.

 

[Therion]

VERY different eras and different positions. Getting that production from an above-average fielding 2nd baseman is pretty sweet.

Era adjusted numbers are pretty similar and Joe Gordon played fewer years (Mattingly constantly gets hit for his lack of longevity)

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

VERY different eras and different positions. Getting that production from an above-average fielding 2nd baseman is pretty sweet.

Era adjusted numbers are pretty similar and Joe Gordon played fewer years (Mattingly constantly gets hit for his lack of longevity)

Yes, era adjusted are similar. But, as stated above, Gordon played a more difficult and important defensive position, and played it very well.

He also lost two years to WWII.

It's actually pretty pointless to compare guys from eras that were this different. And Mattingly may get in by veteran's committee in 70 years, just like Gordon.

 

[Therion]

Ok, if Mattingly is a bad comparison because they played different positions, how about Bret Boone? VERY similar numbers when era adjusted.

Joe Gordon shouldn't be in the Hall.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

Ok, if Mattingly is a bad comparison because they played different positions, how about Bret Boone? VERY similar numbers when era adjusted.

Joe Gordon shouldn't be in the Hall.

I agree, I thought you were arguing FOR Mattingly.

The veteran's committee had to put someone in, just in case the writers dropped the ball on Henderson and failed to vote anyone in. Someone has to go in every year to keep a spotlight on Cooperstown.

 

[Therion]

Ok, if Mattingly is a bad comparison because they played different positions, how about Bret Boone? VERY similar numbers when era adjusted.

Joe Gordon shouldn't be in the Hall.

I agree, I thought you were arguing FOR Mattingly.

The veteran's committee had to put someone in, just in case the writers dropped the ball on Henderson and failed to vote anyone in. Someone has to go in every year to keep a spotlight on Cooperstown.

Yeah, I edited the first post to be a little more clear what my point was. I think you posted before the edit.

If they had to pick someone, why not someone like Gil Hodges (or did he retire after the cutoff?)

It just seems pointless to put players in that were, at best, good.

 

[Anthony K.]

VERY different eras and different positions. Getting that production from an above-average fielding 2nd baseman is pretty sweet.

Era adjusted numbers are pretty similar and Joe Gordon played fewer years (Mattingly constantly gets hit for his lack of longevity)

Maybe it's because he put up similar stats in 3 less years?

If Gordon had those three extra years, i'm sure the era adjusted numbers wouldn't be as close.

Just my opinion though.

 

[Therion]

[quote="Mighty Bombjack":eujxjsyf]VERY different eras and different positions. Getting that production from an above-average fielding 2nd baseman is pretty sweet.

Era adjusted numbers are pretty similar and Joe Gordon played fewer years (Mattingly constantly gets hit for his lack of longevity)

Maybe it's because he put up similar stats in 3 less years?

If Gordon had those three extra years, i'm sure the era adjusted numbers wouldn't be as close.

Just my opinion though.[/quote:eujxjsyf]

That makes little sense. Why would his era adjusted stats go up? Do most players' stats that can be era adjusted go up if they play three more years? Remember, I'm talking BA, OPS, OBP...not runs, RBI, hits, etc. Mattingly crushes his finite numbers.

 

[Anthony K.]

[quote="Mighty Bombjack":3hs1cqa2]VERY different eras and different positions. Getting that production from an above-average fielding 2nd baseman is pretty sweet.

Era adjusted numbers are pretty similar and Joe Gordon played fewer years (Mattingly constantly gets hit for his lack of longevity)

Maybe it's because he put up similar stats in 3 less years?

If Gordon had those three extra years, i'm sure the era adjusted numbers wouldn't be as close.

Just my opinion though.

That makes little sense. Why would his era adjusted stats go up? Do most players' stats that can be era adjusted go up if they play three more years? Remember, I'm talking BA, OPS, OBP...not runs, RBI, hits, etc. Mattingly crushes his finite numbers.[/quote:3hs1cqa2]

I thought all stats are taken into account when era adjusting?

I am mistaken then.

 

[fengzhang]

Ok, if Mattingly is a bad comparison because they played different positions, how about Bret Boone? VERY similar numbers when era adjusted.

Joe Gordon shouldn't be in the Hall.

Mattingly is a poor comparison due to the reason already mentioned: first base is probably the most offensive position on the field while 2B is one of the worst.

As for Bret Boone, who knows? Maybe he will get voted in too by the veteran's committee. Joe Gordon clearly is not a shoo-in. But, playing in an era (regardless of ERA-adjustments) where there aren't 4 guys on every team hitting 30+ HR's and where there is a dearth of offensive 2B talent helps you stand out.

 

[dreamerfan]

What about Norm Cash? He has pretty good numbers and was a two time world series winner and a batting champ. He should go in before Donnie baseball

 

[Therion]

Guys. I'm not arguing FOR Mattingly, I'm arguing AGAINST Gordon. Gordon doesn't belong in the Hall.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

Guys. I'm not arguing FOR Mattingly, I'm arguing AGAINST Gordon. Gordon doesn't belong in the Hall.

It's not you, as you have clearly stated your intentions in this thread. People are reacting because of the fact that many HOF arguments for favorite players have long been based on other players already in, a practice that needs to stop.

I've said it before on these boards. a VERY worthwhile read along these lines is "Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame" by Bill James.

 

[Therion]

Guys. I'm not arguing FOR Mattingly, I'm arguing AGAINST Gordon. Gordon doesn't belong in the Hall.

It's not you, as you have clearly stated your intentions in this thread. People are reacting because of the fact that many HOF arguments for favorite players have long been based on other players already in, a practice that needs to stop.

I've said it before on these boards. a VERY worthwhile read along these lines is "Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame" by Bill James.

You know, I have not read that and really should. Time to make a trip to Amazon.