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IF Strasburg gets seriously injured again...
- Thread starter chompsmcgee
- Start date
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To all the people that say they are rushing him, many posters have already addressed their points, but I'll add this: this recovery time period is par for the course for recovering from Tommy John surgery. For a very close comparison, look at Jordan Zimmermann - he and Strasburg have taken almost the exact same amount of time recovering from that injury, starting with light throwing, then off a mound, then to instructional league, then to the minors, etc. (Zimmerman was actually a little quicker than Strasburg).
This is simply part of the plan, just as a pitch count will be in his starts and an innings limit will be next year. Almost everyone recovering from Tommy John surgery takes this trajectory - Josh Johnson did too (and it had nothign to do with his current injury), and many many others.
Everyone saying they are rushing him is just assuming that's the case because it's the end of the season, but that simply is a coincidence. If he had gotten hurt in April, he'd be back the following April or May (or somewhere around that). And I think Dr. Andrews would probably have an opinion on this if it were against the recovery plan that he's mapped out for Strasburg (and every other pitcher that has recovered from TJ surgery).
This is simply part of the plan, just as a pitch count will be in his starts and an innings limit will be next year. Almost everyone recovering from Tommy John surgery takes this trajectory - Josh Johnson did too (and it had nothign to do with his current injury), and many many others.
Everyone saying they are rushing him is just assuming that's the case because it's the end of the season, but that simply is a coincidence. If he had gotten hurt in April, he'd be back the following April or May (or somewhere around that). And I think Dr. Andrews would probably have an opinion on this if it were against the recovery plan that he's mapped out for Strasburg (and every other pitcher that has recovered from TJ surgery).
Ive played with, as well as know a handful of people who have comeback from Tommy John surgery. From what I have observed is that the hardest thing to ovrcome, once rehab is done, is getting ovr the fear of reinjuring their arms. It seems at first to always be in the back of their minds and it takes a little while for them to b able to really rear back and let loose. Another thing is that a lot of guys come back with sloppy mechanics or alter their mechanics to protect their arms. This can lead to injuries. Also, sometimes during the rehab, guys focus solely on getting their arm stronger and ignore their core/lower body, also can lead to injury. I wouldnt be too worried about Strasburg. 1. If he wasnt ready to come back he wouldnt be pitching and 2. He has a staff of professionals looking after him, not only now, but throughout the entire process. A lot of times guys actually come back stronger and throwing harder after this surgery. Only tim will tell but Im sure he will be fine.
wolters03
New member
tikitomoka said:
Well I'm glad you know more about Tommy John Surgery and the effects of what it has on the elbow. I bet the doctors that have completed hundreds of Tommy John cases that are working with Stras have no idea how to handle the situation. Your opinion carries HIGH VALUE.
RL24
New member
OK, so forget the arm. What if he gets hit with a line drive in the knee, shatters his knee cap, and misses half of next year? A lot of different things could happen.
These are the things that make me think it's not worth it bringing it bringing him back for a few games when they're 50 games out.
These are the things that make me think it's not worth it bringing it bringing him back for a few games when they're 50 games out.
Here is an excerpt from a USA today article from 2007 about the chances and odds pitchers face from having multiple Tommy John surgeries, prognosis? Not Good.
"according to James Andrews, a Birmingham, Ala.-based orthopedist who many pitchers visit to seek second opinions on their throwing arms. According to statistics maintained by his office, Andrews performed 1,169 Tommy John surgeries over the 12-year span from 1994 until 2005. Of those, only 12 players were going for their second elbow reconstruction.
For those 12, the success rate — a pitcher making it to his presurgery level of baseball — is about 20%, Andrews estimates.
Before performing his second Tommy John surgery on pitcher Doug Brocail, Thomas Mehlhoff, a physician with the Houston Astros, gave even more staggering odds.
"Dr. Mehlhoff gave me a 5% chance of a comeback, and I said, 'With your 5% and my 95%, I'll pitch again,' " said Brocail, 40, a reliever for the San Diego Padres.
Brocail has appeared in 161 major league games since the September 2002 operation.
But for every Reyes or Brocail who has some success after returning, there are many more who do not.
Comeback odds slim
Darren Dreifort pitched only 111 innings over two seasons after returning from his second Tommy John surgery before retiring. Jose Rijo, who had the procedure five times, missed five entire seasons.
Andrews says there are several reasons why the odds are stacked against multiple-Tommy John surgery pitchers.
"First, a pitcher has to take a year to a year-and-a-half to recover," Andrews said. "A promising, young pitcher may go through it again, but an older one in the twilight of his career will just call it quits."
Furthermore, when pitchers have their first surgery, they use what is normally their one and only chance for a healthy elbow, Andrews believes.
"You can always get it redone, but it won't be as good as the first time."
Frank Jobe, who performed the first surgery, on Los Angeles Dodgers pitcher Tommy John, gives two reasons why that is the case.
"One is that some people just don't have as good ligaments as others," Jobe said. "The other is that pitchers sometimes come back with bad habits and try to throw too hard, too soon."
Rehabilitation is an 18-month process. It is not uncommon for players to want to rush because their elbow feels good.
"For a few weeks after my (second) surgery, I had my arm in a sling," says Tyler Johnson, a pitcher who recently finished his collegiate career at Bowling Green.
Johnson had his second Tommy John surgery eight months into the rehab of his first and is an undrafted free agent.
"The therapist would change the angle of the sling to help me straighten my arm. That was how they measured improvement," he said.
For those who are successful in their comeback attempts, though, they make sure to take their second rehabilitation slowly and complete all of the prescribed exercises.
"I didn't pick up a baseball for a year," Brocail said. "If I felt anything, any sort of twinge in my elbow while in my throwing program, I would not throw that day."
No more comebacks
A second Tommy John surgery changed Matt Riley's workout regimen.
Riley reached the major leagues in 1999 at age 19 with the Baltimore Orioles, had his first Tommy John surgery in September 2000, made it back to the majors in 2003 and had a second surgery in July 2005.
"I used to lift a lot during the season," said Riley, a relief pitcher with the Las Vegas 51s, the Class AAA affiliate with the Dodgers.
A recent MRI exam on his elbow revealed Riley has a torn ulnar collateral ligament, but he is throwing harder (91-95 mph) than he ever has.
"That led to injuries, so now I do less weights and work more on flexibility."
There is a limit as to how much these pitchers will do to prolong their pitching careers.
"I don't think about" getting another Tommy John surgery, Brocail said. "If it happens again, I won't pitch again."
That sentiment is shared by Johnson and Riley.
"I probably won't make another comeback," Johnson said. "No one wants to sign a 25-year-old right-handed pitcher with three Tommy Johns."
"This is it. If it goes again, I'm done," Riley said. "I try not to think about it. I'll listen to my arm. I will not go through it again."
Reyes laughs off the thought of needing another Tommy John surgery.
"It's like they say, I have a new arm," he says.
"It should last for 10 more years — better than new."
"according to James Andrews, a Birmingham, Ala.-based orthopedist who many pitchers visit to seek second opinions on their throwing arms. According to statistics maintained by his office, Andrews performed 1,169 Tommy John surgeries over the 12-year span from 1994 until 2005. Of those, only 12 players were going for their second elbow reconstruction.
For those 12, the success rate — a pitcher making it to his presurgery level of baseball — is about 20%, Andrews estimates.
Before performing his second Tommy John surgery on pitcher Doug Brocail, Thomas Mehlhoff, a physician with the Houston Astros, gave even more staggering odds.
"Dr. Mehlhoff gave me a 5% chance of a comeback, and I said, 'With your 5% and my 95%, I'll pitch again,' " said Brocail, 40, a reliever for the San Diego Padres.
Brocail has appeared in 161 major league games since the September 2002 operation.
But for every Reyes or Brocail who has some success after returning, there are many more who do not.
Comeback odds slim
Darren Dreifort pitched only 111 innings over two seasons after returning from his second Tommy John surgery before retiring. Jose Rijo, who had the procedure five times, missed five entire seasons.
Andrews says there are several reasons why the odds are stacked against multiple-Tommy John surgery pitchers.
"First, a pitcher has to take a year to a year-and-a-half to recover," Andrews said. "A promising, young pitcher may go through it again, but an older one in the twilight of his career will just call it quits."
Furthermore, when pitchers have their first surgery, they use what is normally their one and only chance for a healthy elbow, Andrews believes.
"You can always get it redone, but it won't be as good as the first time."
Frank Jobe, who performed the first surgery, on Los Angeles Dodgers pitcher Tommy John, gives two reasons why that is the case.
"One is that some people just don't have as good ligaments as others," Jobe said. "The other is that pitchers sometimes come back with bad habits and try to throw too hard, too soon."
Rehabilitation is an 18-month process. It is not uncommon for players to want to rush because their elbow feels good.
"For a few weeks after my (second) surgery, I had my arm in a sling," says Tyler Johnson, a pitcher who recently finished his collegiate career at Bowling Green.
Johnson had his second Tommy John surgery eight months into the rehab of his first and is an undrafted free agent.
"The therapist would change the angle of the sling to help me straighten my arm. That was how they measured improvement," he said.
For those who are successful in their comeback attempts, though, they make sure to take their second rehabilitation slowly and complete all of the prescribed exercises.
"I didn't pick up a baseball for a year," Brocail said. "If I felt anything, any sort of twinge in my elbow while in my throwing program, I would not throw that day."
No more comebacks
A second Tommy John surgery changed Matt Riley's workout regimen.
Riley reached the major leagues in 1999 at age 19 with the Baltimore Orioles, had his first Tommy John surgery in September 2000, made it back to the majors in 2003 and had a second surgery in July 2005.
"I used to lift a lot during the season," said Riley, a relief pitcher with the Las Vegas 51s, the Class AAA affiliate with the Dodgers.
A recent MRI exam on his elbow revealed Riley has a torn ulnar collateral ligament, but he is throwing harder (91-95 mph) than he ever has.
"That led to injuries, so now I do less weights and work more on flexibility."
There is a limit as to how much these pitchers will do to prolong their pitching careers.
"I don't think about" getting another Tommy John surgery, Brocail said. "If it happens again, I won't pitch again."
That sentiment is shared by Johnson and Riley.
"I probably won't make another comeback," Johnson said. "No one wants to sign a 25-year-old right-handed pitcher with three Tommy Johns."
"This is it. If it goes again, I'm done," Riley said. "I try not to think about it. I'll listen to my arm. I will not go through it again."
Reyes laughs off the thought of needing another Tommy John surgery.
"It's like they say, I have a new arm," he says.
"It should last for 10 more years — better than new."
cmnkb8
New member
In the near future, instead of TJS, pitchers can replace a torn ligament with a new bionic/genetically engineered one. Perhaps Bartolo Colon could volunteer to be a test subject...
RL24 said:
He could also get hit by a car walking down the street. Should we put him in solitary confinement when he's not pitching?
matfanofold
Active member
- Aug 10, 2008
- 7,645
- 1
RL24 said:
So you value MLB expierence and preperation so little that you would rather sit a young pitcher and have him start a new season (after being out of MLB for over a year) just because the sky may fall? You do not feel that these innings of 'no pressure' MLB work he can get in now have any beneficial value? Not even enough to overshadow a possible knee injury?
