Is Halladay showing that if you are good enough...

[Topnotchsy]

Watching the increases in Roy Halladay's cards over the last season has reinforced the idea for me that if you are good enough, you will get recognized in the hobby, and will receive some hobby love. Despite not making any drastic improvements in his game this past season, the cumulative effect of his years of performance (helped along by trade rumors and the like) brought on pretty significant increases.

I've seen it happen to many players and the lesson always seems to be the same. A player can fly under the radar for a while, but if they are good enough, they will get the attention that they deserve. Regarding players like Pujols and Arod that "there's nothing more they can do to get more attention." Often all they have to do is continue what they are doing, and after a while something inevitably happens (whether it be a WS, approaching a career milestone, a new contract or just about anything else) that gets them attention and all of a sudden people zero in on the fact that the player has some serious career accomplishments and prices see serious spikes. I have made some nice money off Pujols this way, and Arod has cycled from cold to red hot 3-4 times over the last few years, with huge percentage swings in price.

Thoughts?

 

[Huffamaniac]

When is it going to happen for Michael Young? He gets very little recognition and no hobby love.

 

[Topnotchsy]

When is it going to happen for Michael Young? He gets very little recognition and no hobby love.

If you're asking my personal opinion, I never really felt Young was the caliber player to deserve a whole lot more attention then he gets. He's a very solid player, but really pretty unexciting. High average, but averages around 15 homers a season and does no steal bases. He's made the all-star game the last 6 seasons, but has he ever started? (I don't recall him ever being the best in the league.) If he keeps it up long enough to approach 3000 hits he might get more attention, but in my mind he's not really in the category of player I refer to.

 

[sdsportsfan1214]

When is it going to happen for Michael Young? He gets very little recognition and no hobby love.

If you're asking my personal opinion, I never really felt Young was the caliber player to deserve a whole lot more attention then he gets. He's a very solid player, but really pretty unexciting. High average, but averages around 15 homers a season and does no steal bases. He's made the all-star game the last 6 seasons, but has he ever started? (I don't recall him ever being the best in the league.) If he keeps it up long enough to approach 3000 hits he might get more attention, but in my mind he's not really in the category of player I refer to.

Young will need to make the Hall of Fame to see a significant increase for his cards in the hobby. The 6 all star games is alot, a few more and get close to 3000 and he's got a great shot at Cooperstown

 

[leatherman]

When is it going to happen for Michael Young? He gets very little recognition and no hobby love.

If you're asking my personal opinion, I never really felt Young was the caliber player to deserve a whole lot more attention then he gets. He's a very solid player, but really pretty unexciting. High average, but averages around 15 homers a season and does no steal bases. He's made the all-star game the last 6 seasons, but has he ever started? (I don't recall him ever being the best in the league.) If he keeps it up long enough to approach 3000 hits he might get more attention, but in my mind he's not really in the category of player I refer to.

Over the last 7 seasons, Young has 1416 hits with a .312 average. However, his OPS is only 110 over that time. He is also 33 now, and has averaged less than 180 hits over the last two seaons. It's gonna be pretty tough for him to reach 3000. He has 1662 now, and needs 1338 to reach 3000. Here are the only players with 1338 or more hits from age 33 until retirement:

Pete Rose 2104
Sam Rice 1978
Honus Wagner 1669
Paul Molitor 1568
Ty Cobb 1476
Carl Yastrzemski 1467
Stan Musial 1407
Luke Appling 1406
Craig Biggio 1380
Edgar Martinez 1379
Dave Winfield 1349

All played until they were at least 41.

 

[Wes]

Watching the increases in Roy Halladay's cards over the last season has reinforced the idea for me that if you are good enough, you will get recognized in the hobby, and will receive some hobby love. Despite not making any drastic improvements in his game this past season, the cumulative effect of his years of performance (helped along by trade rumors and the like) brought on pretty significant increases.

I've seen it happen to many players and the lesson always seems to be the same. A player can fly under the radar for a while, but if they are good enough, they will get the attention that they deserve. Regarding players like Pujols and Arod that "there's nothing more they can do to get more attention." Often all they have to do is continue what they are doing, and after a while something inevitably happens (whether it be a WS, approaching a career milestone, a new contract or just about anything else) that gets them attention and all of a sudden people zero in on the fact that the player has some serious career accomplishments and prices see serious spikes. I have made some nice money off Pujols this way, and Arod has cycled from cold to red hot 3-4 times over the last few years, with huge percentage swings in price.

Thoughts?

Yes and no. A huge part of his spikes have come from trade rumors and from actually being traded. Markets are huge factors.

 

[IndyManning18]

Halladay never got the Hobby love because he was stuck in Canada. Just my opinion.

 

[G $MONEY$]

Halladay never got the Hobby love because he was stuck in Canada. Just my opinion.

I gotta disagree with that. One of the biggest hobby Stars EVER, was "stuck" in Canada, Vince Carter. Why was he so popular playing in Canada?

 

[steve-a-reno]

Halladay never got the Hobby love because he was stuck in Canada. Just my opinion.

I gotta disagree with that. One of the biggest hobby Stars EVER, was "stuck" in Canada, Vince Carter. Why was he so popular playing in Canada?

B/c he was a monster in college in the U.S. first.

 

[Topnotchsy]

Yes and no. A huge part of his spikes have come from trade rumors and from actually being traded. Markets are huge factors.

It definitely is tied to the trade rumors but my point is that if a player maintains a high level of performance, it is almost inevitable that he will find his way into the limelight and get the hobby attention he deserves. It may be a trade, a 4 homer game, a WS appearance, no hitter, trade rumor, milestone, record, enormous contract etc. but something is bound to happen sooner or later. I think it is a very rare star who never gets noted for his accomplishments.

 

[IndyManning18]

Halladay never got the Hobby love because he was stuck in Canada. Just my opinion.

I gotta disagree with that. One of the biggest hobby Stars EVER, was "stuck" in Canada, Vince Carter. Why was he so popular playing in Canada?

Carter was a stud in college. And he was a highlight reel out of the gate. On Sports Center every night for his amazing dunks. Halladay is a great pitcher that got the job done and went home. Nothing flashy what-so-ever. He wasn't on the Yankees or the Sawx. He just didn't get the exposure playing in Toronto.

 

[G $MONEY$]

[quote="G $MONEY$":2wx7abfy]

Halladay never got the Hobby love because he was stuck in Canada. Just my opinion.

I gotta disagree with that. One of the biggest hobby Stars EVER, was "stuck" in Canada, Vince Carter. Why was he so popular playing in Canada?

B/c he was a monster in college in the U.S. first.[/quote:2wx7abfy]

:lol: point taken. But c'mon Vince never had that type of following in college that he had in his first few years in Toronto. There hasn't been many players that have taken the modern hobby by storm like Vince Carter did. Lebron James and Sidney Crosby are a couple that do compare.

Obviously Halladay has gained hobby popularity by moving from Toronto to Philadelphia. Philly is a big market that has many fans of the Phillies and many people are speculating that Halladay is gonna have a big year (and possible Championship) now that he is on an elite team. As most Hobby vets know, the modern hobby prices have a lot to do with "What a player can do" and not as much "what has a player done".

 

[G $MONEY$]

He just didn't get the exposure playing in Toronto.

This is true, especially since the Jays haven't done much the last several years, to get National Television exposure (playoffs). Not to mention that in Toronto the Jays play second fiddle to the Maple Leafs. Most every Toronto sports fan (that ive met anyways) is a Maple Leafs fan first, all other Toronto teams "second", sort of a fan (Except for when the Jays were winning World Series titles)

 

[Topnotchsy]

Anyone have any thoughts on the initial post?

 

[darocker80]

Roy Halladay just moved toa way bigger market team and has limited cert autos as well

 

[UMich92]

I think the move to a different market really helps this type of player. I don't even think the market necessarily needs to be bigger. Just the additional press coming from the new market seems to help.

Alex

 

[Topnotchsy]

I think the move to a different market really helps this type of player. I don't even think the market necessarily needs to be bigger. Just the additional press coming from the new market seems to help.

Alex

I agree with this.

What I was trying to say was that Halladay is another example of a player who people may have considered underrated for years who is now getting his props, despite there not really being a change in his performance. The theory is that if a player plays at a high enough level, people will notice sooner or later, and often it will not really require improved performance.

 

[brumbach]

I think it's really tough for pitchers to get and maintain hobby love as well. It's not like Maddux, Glavine, or Randy Johnson cards lit the hobby on fire either, certain cards got some premiums but overall you need to price their cards at a discount to move them. Even before the steroids and rusty soda cans talk Clemens was still a tough sell too.

It's funny, after suffering through the years of Luis Aguayo and Steve Jeltz and Jeff Calhoun and Don Carman and Ben Rivera that the Phillies are this big market team. I love it.

 

[Mudcatsfan]

Anyone have any thoughts on the initial post?

Couple things.

I think Adrian Gonzalez is another example of this. The funny thing is, people started noticing his consistent excellent performance when his name came up as possibly going to Boston.

Perhaps the reality is, that if you put up 3-5 good years in a small market people notice you,,,,,and you're gonna leave, because small markets can't afford to keep a 5 year newly available Free Agent. Therefore the two triggers tend to happen at the same time.

So, yes people get noticed after years of obscurity, but the real kicker comes when Boston, NY, LA, etc are rumored to be next in line for their services.

 

[gt2590]

All you have to do if you're a player like Halladay, Santana or Bay is be good enough to need a big contract that only the better card market teams can afford. Guys like Chipper and Mauer are the exception the nowadays.

And even though they're disappointed in losing Cliff Lee, the Phillies fans are going crazy with Halladay fever. They haven't this crazy for any free agent I can remember, even Thome. That is helping his prices alot too.