Is Leaf/Brian Gray going to get Johnny Manziel kicked out of NCAA football

[nappyd]

No rule against signing autographs. They just cant make money off it (yet the college or NCAA can). Although, they are allowed to have low paying jobs. So maybe you could hire one as an actual job to sign autographs, if you paid them minimum wage. I don't think anyone has tried that yet.

They should pay the starter players $12,000-15,000 a year, and maybe $8,000-10,000 for non-starters. That would only leave 80-90% of the money still on the table for the university.

Yeah I remember having that discussion where student-athletes can have jobs, but can't be directly related to the sport they're in or paid unreasonable amounts for the work, i.e. no $30/hour landscapers. In most cases, they don't have the free time to hold side jobs except during the summer and even then there's study hall to help them keep their gpa's up to be eligible.

It seems like they should get a percentage of merchandise sales, but even then a small chunk should go to covering non-revenue sports.

 

[Gwynn545]

Yeah I remember having that discussion where student-athletes can have jobs, but can't be directly related to the sport they're in or paid unreasonable amounts for the work, i.e. no $30/hour landscapers. .

What movie is that (old movie) where the college athlete is paid to water the field, but then finds out they're automatic sprinklers on a timer? It's killing me and it's on the tip of my tongue!!

 

[predatorkj]

College athletes should be paid and every argument I've run across to not do so has always been weak. Of course less attractive sports might make less or none at all. But as I've said before, you choose the sport you play. It's common knowledge professional basketball players and football players make more than other sports so it shouldn't be any different on college. Don't get your feelings hurt because you play bad mitten and don't get paid well for it. You should be paid based on what you earn your employer. In this case, that's the college.

 

[matfanofold]

College athletes should be paid and every argument I've run across to not do so has always been weak. Of course less attractive sports might make less or none at all. But as I've said before, you choose the sport you play. It's common knowledge professional basketball players and football players make more than other sports so it shouldn't be any different on college. Don't get your feelings hurt because you play bad mitten and don't get paid well for it. You should be paid based on what you earn your employer. In this case, that's the college.

Of course this is your opinion, I'm sure you realize, and what you may think as a 'weak argument' also falls under that umbrella. I, like most rational people, agree that getting a quality free education is ample payment, least we mention the polarizing and potential damaging implications that could involve college athletes accepting monetary payment. As a point of contention, every argument I have heard for college athletes getting payment has been 'weak' as you say.

 

[MansGame]

For y'all who think college athletes should be paid, answer two simple questions for me:

(1) all athletes across all sports?

(2) all paid evenly?

(3) what about scholarships, no more?


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[predatorkj]

Of course this is your opinion, I'm sure you realize, and what you may think as a 'weak argument' also falls under that umbrella. I, like most rational people, agree that getting a quality free education is ample payment, least we mention the polarizing and potential damaging implications that could involve college athletes accepting monetary payment. As a point of contention, every argument I have heard for college athletes getting payment has been 'weak' as you say.

Quality my rear. Playing football is a full time deal. That's why most of these guys graduate with bs degrees. Yes you could try for a harder degree that lands a better job but burning a candle at both ends like that won't last long. So this quality education is more like a perk that can't be used to its full value. And no, nobody forces them to play. But the education's value isn't as great as people make it out to be.

 

[predatorkj]

For y'all who think college athletes should be paid, answer two simple questions for me:

(1) all athletes across all sports?

(2) all paid evenly?

(3) what about scholarships, no more?


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1. Yes, if they're sport actually earns as opposed to loses money.
2. Nope. Paid based on your sports earnings. That's about as fair as you can make it. You can't be losing money as a sport and still be paying money out.
3. Scholarships are necessary because without them, talent can't afford to be there. If they can't afford to go to the school, they can't be there to play football either.


Another thing to clear up is this education these schools offer is way overpriced to begin with. I know that's a seperate issue but I have a hell of a time feeling like any of these guys gets a great deal when they are offered a free ride or a discount on an already overpriced service.


Besides, was at Walmart today. Yep, selling those #2 A&M jerseys like hot cakes. That's nice. I say if they can't be paid or at the very least collect royalties off of their name or likeness or from autos or jersey's featuring their number, then neither should the NCAA or A&M.

 

[predatorkj]

One more thought....I'd even say that the free rides offer the schools more benefit than the athletes. They know the athlete's most likely not going to get the max out of it they can anyways and on top of that, if they're good, they aren't staying anyways do the school doesn't have to worry about it.



I guess my major issue is that the NCAA and the schools care if a guy makes money off of autos and things like that. Yet they get to make money off of his jersey's and shirts. You really want to be fair, be fair. Don't keep a guy from marketing himself.

 

[matfanofold]

Quality my rear. Playing football is a full time deal. That's why most of these guys graduate with bs degrees. Yes you could try for a harder degree that lands a better job but burning a candle at both ends like that won't last long. So this quality education is more like a perk that can't be used to its full value. And no, nobody forces them to play. But the education's value isn't as great as people make it out to be.

Again, more opinion presented as fact.

There simply is no single shred of anything that lends itself to be beneficial to make college athletes employees on a payroll basis. Anyone with half a brain who fully fleshes the idea out would see that. So the value of the education is nothing? The value of providing an arena to play/compete is nothing? The value of college level sports training is nothing? The value of professional exposure is nothing? I think the untold millions who earned a quality college degree by playing sports would disagree, and outright object, to your opinion on the worth of their education.

 

[Hendersonfan]

Anything that happens in Manziel's fault. Might be morally/ethically wrong for someone like BG (which I don't think had anything to do with this) or any business man or whoever approach a player and offer money for autographs/memorabilia but it's ultimately the players responsibility. Same thing happened at Ohio State with tattoos and rings. I didn't blame the dealer guy, it was the players I was upset with. They know what they are doing is wrong and what the consequences are. I know what it's like to be a broke college student, so don't say what I or you would/should do in the same situation. I would turn down the offer as I wouldn't jeopardize my NCAA career for the money. May not agree with the rules, but obey them or face the consequences.

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[cmixer]

Let me go on record saying: good for LEAF seeing a player we all like; seeing autos on the 2nd market; & making cards we all want. -- Thanks for bringing something new to market.

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[notjomommasclint]

Paying him or not paying him..

Under the current rules this is not accepted.

 

[predatorkj]

Again, more opinion presented as fact.

There simply is no single shred of anything that lends itself to be beneficial to make college athletes employees on a payroll basis. Anyone with half a brain who fully fleshes the idea out would see that. So the value of the education is nothing? The value of providing an arena to play/compete is nothing? The value of college level sports training is nothing? The value of professional exposure is nothing? I think the untold millions who earned a quality college degree by playing sports would disagree, and outright object, to your opinion on the worth of their education.

More of an observation which helped me form an opinion. You ever get curious and decide to see what guys got degrees in if they even finished college? Medical degrees are damn near out of the question. In fact, I'd think anything technical would be hard to pull off. Engineering?

I think someone should be able to go to college for whatever they want. Whether it'll lead to a high paying job or not. But I feel they should have the time given to them to do so. I'd say football makes that very hard for them. I'd say that means they are hard pressed to take full advantage of the opportunity. Which leads me to suspect that the full ride they get from the school is a catch 22.

 

[Brad]

Why is it then that athletes in other sports and walk-ons are in "real" majors then? They work just as hard as the stars on the field.

I would love to see a calculation for the room, board, free clothes, free books, issued laptop, tutoring sessions, regular school tuition, special session tuition, Summer session(s) tuition, and access to top level training coaches. I guarantee it is a heck of a lot more than any kid fresh out of high school can hope to earn.

 

[MansGame]

This thread is starting to give me a headache lol


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[predatorkj]

Why is it then that athletes in other sports and walk-ons are in "real" majors then? They work just as hard as the stars on the field.

I would love to see a calculation for the room, board, free clothes, free books, issued laptop, tutoring sessions, regular school tuition, special session tuition, Summer session(s) tuition, and access to top level training coaches. I guarantee it is a heck of a lot more than any kid fresh out of high school can hope to earn.

I'm not saying that they don't. My personal experience is I am being told by people who have played football at big schools that it's hard to play football and really focus on it, and then still have the time to focus on school. That's all. As far as the tutoring sessions, yeah sure, the whole reason for that is because these guys don't have a lot of time to fully study the material. Otherwise, would they all need the tutoring? As for the other crud you mentioned, it's an overpriced product to begin with.

I'm really not up to debating this any more. I think we all went back and forth a few years ago in a similar thread. And nothing got solved. Nothing overcomes the fact that these guys earn the school millions of dollars and can't so much as have a guy buy them a hamburger for signing an autograph for them. You can bring the title 9 stuff up. You can say other athletes go to class. Anyone here can say what they personally did or didn't do during their college years. None of it can sway that point. You also cannot say that giving someone a full ride equates to the automatic ability to take full advantage of it. Not when you turn right back around and take all that time out of their schedule for practice, film study, team meetings, media crap, and travel. And oh, hope you have time to go to good classes and get a good degree in something other than business management. The other arguments I have heard is it would make some schools go broke. Uh, not with the tuition they overcharge people for. I've also heard that it's not fair to someone playing another lower profit sport. That's like saying just because I work at a fast food place, I should earn just as much as someone who is an engineer. Uh, no. You earn based upon your worth. If as a fast food employee, you earn the company $150 a day, why should you get paid like an engineer who earns the company millions annually?

There just isn't anything that can be said that would make this issue go away. Whatever the school is providing to these kids pales in comparison to what they get out of the student when it comes to football. And nobody should have the control to tell you that you can or cannot sign autos for money. While they sit there and sell your jersey's behind your back.

 

[nappyd]

More of an observation which helped me form an opinion. You ever get curious and decide to see what guys got degrees in if they even finished college? Medical degrees are damn near out of the question. In fact, I'd think anything technical would be hard to pull off. Engineering?

I think someone should be able to go to college for whatever they want. Whether it'll lead to a high paying job or not. But I feel they should have the time given to them to do so. I'd say football makes that very hard for them. I'd say that means they are hard pressed to take full advantage of the opportunity. Which leads me to suspect that the full ride they get from the school is a catch 22.

Depends on the engineering major. Some, like electrical, can be doable. But yes for the most part guys are talked out of trying to major in the more difficult majors at school like engineering and computer science. And, of course, there are guys who want the easy major and don't want to major in something hard.

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[nappyd]

Why is it then that athletes in other sports and walk-ons are in "real" majors then? They work just as hard as the stars on the field.

I would love to see a calculation for the room, board, free clothes, free books, issued laptop, tutoring sessions, regular school tuition, special session tuition, Summer session(s) tuition, and access to top level training coaches. I guarantee it is a heck of a lot more than any kid fresh out of high school can hope to earn.

A lot of it has to do with practice times and game/travel schedules. That can cut into the ability to go through majors that may require a significant amount of labs for classes, same with things that can drag a major out past four years like work study and internships as requirements for a major. Otherwise you might see more graphics communications majors on sports teams at Clemson.


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[Brad]

I'm not saying that they don't. My personal experience is I am being told by people who have played football at big schools that it's hard to play football and really focus on it, and then still have the time to focus on school. That's all. As far as the tutoring sessions, yeah sure, the whole reason for that is because these guys don't have a lot of time to fully study the material. Otherwise, would they all need the tutoring? As for the other crud you mentioned, it's an overpriced product to begin with.

I'm really not up to debating this any more. I think we all went back and forth a few years ago in a similar thread. And nothing got solved. Nothing overcomes the fact that these guys earn the school millions of dollars and can't so much as have a guy buy them a hamburger for signing an autograph for them. You can bring the title 9 stuff up. You can say other athletes go to class. Anyone here can say what they personally did or didn't do during their college years. None of it can sway that point. You also cannot say that giving someone a full ride equates to the automatic ability to take full advantage of it. Not when you turn right back around and take all that time out of their schedule for practice, film study, team meetings, media crap, and travel. And oh, hope you have time to go to good classes and get a good degree in something other than business management. The other arguments I have heard is it would make some schools go broke. Uh, not with the tuition they overcharge people for. I've also heard that it's not fair to someone playing another lower profit sport. That's like saying just because I work at a fast food place, I should earn just as much as someone who is an engineer. Uh, no. You earn based upon your worth. If as a fast food employee, you earn the company $150 a day, why should you get paid like an engineer who earns the company millions annually?

There just isn't anything that can be said that would make this issue go away. Whatever the school is providing to these kids pales in comparison to what they get out of the student when it comes to football. And nobody should have the control to tell you that you can or cannot sign autos for money. While they sit there and sell your jersey's behind your back.

Since there have been plenty of opinions and assumptions made, wouldn't tutoring be necessary because a lot of players are not academically capable to handle a "real" major or college in general? The kids only have to take around 9 hours per semester so there is an academic commitment, but it isn't like a 15-18 hour schedule.

I bolded the other part since I find the money comparison interesting (mainly because the fast food workers striking in some places for higher pay / higher minimum wage). Doesn't a fast food worker earn their company hundreds of millions while being paid $8 an hour?

 

[predatorkj]

Since there have been plenty of opinions and assumptions made, wouldn't tutoring be necessary because a lot of players are not academically capable to handle a "real" major or college in general? The kids only have to take around 9 hours per semester so there is an academic commitment, but it isn't like a 15-18 hour schedule.

I bolded the other part since I find the money comparison interesting (mainly because the fast food workers striking in some places for higher pay / higher minimum wage). Doesn't a fast food worker earn their company hundreds of millions while being paid $8 an hour?

I'd think a fast food worker makes their company money. Just not as much as other jobs. There is a reason it pays less.

As far as tutoring, yes I agree but are the athletes really just using it for that or because of time issues? Unless you just want to say they are all dumb jocks, which I don't believe them to be.

Even working a 40 hour a week job and taking 9 credit hours can be hard if you are in challenging courses that require a lot of study time. I can't imagine playing football or going to practice and class and then going home and having the time or energy to study. Though I will say some guys are able to pull it off. It's certainly not the norm and there is a reason.