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Is your players auto price getting watered down?

I paid $64 delivered for a 2007 UD Premier Remnants Quads (2632) Autograph Serial #'d to 15 back in July of 2016. I don't think you'll have any chance of getting this same (or similar) card for that price before 2010 for Cal Ripken Jr autographs.

I bought over 110 different Cal Ripken certified autographed cards in 2016 for $6,600 (approximately). Although about 30 of them are 2010 plus and mostly Leaf, I paid around $30-35 per auto and about $40 for serial numbered 25 or less.

The most I paid in 2016 was $139.35 for a 2005 Throwback Threads Collection Combo Autograph Serial #'d to 10 back in February. If I remember correctly, another one of this popped up and sold for much less but I think what I paid is still less than what they were going for before 2010. I don't remember ever paying $60 or less for any Ripken autographs before 2010 and he is 95% of what I buy...
 

predatorkj

New member
Aug 7, 2008
11,865
I paid $64 delivered for a 2007 UD Premier Remnants Quads (2632) Autograph Serial #'d to 15 back in July of 2016. I don't think you'll have any chance of getting this same (or similar) card for that price before 2010 for Cal Ripken Jr autographs.

I bought over 110 different Cal Ripken certified autographed cards in 2016 for $6,600 (approximately). Although about 30 of them are 2010 plus and mostly Leaf, I paid around $30-35 per auto and about $40 for serial numbered 25 or less.

The most I paid in 2016 was $139.35 for a 2005 Throwback Threads Collection Combo Autograph Serial #'d to 10 back in February. If I remember correctly, another one of this popped up and sold for much less but I think what I paid is still less than what they were going for before 2010. I don't remember ever paying $60 or less for any Ripken autographs before 2010 and he is 95% of what I buy...

That is because his stuff regularly sold well over a $100 if I recall correctly. For base low numbered autos even(depending on how low the serial number). I know as I was tickled to death as I went on a hot streak pulling his autos(one was even from premier which was a 300 pack of cards!). There are still a few guys whose demand is high and availability is low(or lower). Piazza and Maddux are two I'm eyeing. But prices have continued to drop on them. I'll be so happy when Jeter drops below a bill. It's also happening with basketball and football.

I think what'll be interesting is, over time, what, if anything, will hold some value? I'm thinking older GU patch autos might as I feel like the hobby as a whole considers the earlier GU stuff to be more likely legit. A lot of the gorgeous stuff now is player worn or event worn or whatever. I'm not into that. If I was, I'd just stop buy and get Moushi to create something as he would easily make a mockery of anything out there.
 

smapdi

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
4,196
It's supply and demand, and especially supply, but it's a weird inverted relationship with the people buying them. Basically, be careful what you wish for. Anyone would like to open a pack and find a Piazza, or Maddux, or Koufax auto. Topps and Panini know this, so they put them in there. But meeting the capricious demands of the market inevitably increases supply and they still have to pay the price the players demand for their sigs. The collectors who just want any sig compared to a specific one, for set-building or other definite purpose, are happy with softening prices, but the "value accumulator" somehow finds it distasteful. Could Topps go to these guys and say,"You know, we put out a few thousand of your autograph in the last couple years and prices on them are down on ebay, and people complain about it, but they still want the cards. So we need you to lower your prices so we can make more cards." Sure, but I don't think it'd fly.

I think it's funny that people see sets like Dynasty and whatever and say,"Oh there's never enough value to justify the price" as if there's a direct correlation, and Topps controls it. If they were to put a Mickey Mantle cut auto in every pack, people would complain because prices would plummet, despite the fact that who wouldn't love to pull a Mickey Mantle auto? That you can buy an auto of just about any living or recently deceased HOF-level player for $100 or less is pretty awesome for a collector.
 

predatorkj

New member
Aug 7, 2008
11,865
It's supply and demand, and especially supply, but it's a weird inverted relationship with the people buying them. Basically, be careful what you wish for. Anyone would like to open a pack and find a Piazza, or Maddux, or Koufax auto. Topps and Panini know this, so they put them in there. But meeting the capricious demands of the market inevitably increases supply and they still have to pay the price the players demand for their sigs. The collectors who just want any sig compared to a specific one, for set-building or other definite purpose, are happy with softening prices, but the "value accumulator" somehow finds it distasteful. Could Topps go to these guys and say,"You know, we put out a few thousand of your autograph in the last couple years and prices on them are down on ebay, and people complain about it, but they still want the cards. So we need you to lower your prices so we can make more cards." Sure, but I don't think it'd fly.

I think it's funny that people see sets like Dynasty and whatever and say,"Oh there's never enough value to justify the price" as if there's a direct correlation, and Topps controls it. If they were to put a Mickey Mantle cut auto in every pack, people would complain because prices would plummet, despite the fact that who wouldn't love to pull a Mickey Mantle auto? That you can buy an auto of just about any living or recently deceased HOF-level player for $100 or less is pretty awesome for a collector.
Oh, I agree. But, the reason a lot of people, myself included, start off collecting is we want to amass something. Something that takes time, might not be possible, but is fun to go after. Like playing a hard video game, fishing, etc. Whatever your tastes were. But imagine if every time you made a cast you caught a marlin. Or every time you played a video game it was no more challenging than mario bros(old school NES). You'd get bored. It would get old.

Yes we'd all love to pull a Mantle auto. But if there were so many that everyone could have one, affordably, it would get old. Now, I agree about Topps/Panini not being able to go to the players and get the autos cheaper. So prices of product will stay high(er) than the average(read that as the norm you'll pull) yield per box. But recycle the same stuff with new names multiplied by infinity and the prices become so watered down that every box is pretty much going to a be a loser and Topps/Panini's hands are tied on price point. Then what? Even the gamblers have no real motive to buy. So..what happens?

I guess I'm cool with it. I'm just trying not to over spend too much. Trying to get out of that gotta have it first mindset. I started collecting to do what I want to do and I'll do my best to achieve my goals. But I think the hobby won't handle this very well. Topps and Panini need to realize they can't give every collector what they want and nor should they. This is kind of why.
 

predatorkj

New member
Aug 7, 2008
11,865
Part of your diatribe above is the precise reason why I never NEED to buy cards right when a product comes out.
You risk losing out on all the 1/1's if you follow that though. Which is really all I can go after. Tired of paying $80 for a card that will be going for $30-$40 later.
 

AnthonyCorona

Active member
Oct 6, 2014
9,507
Modesto, CA
You risk losing out on all the 1/1's if you follow that though. Which is really all I can go after. Tired of paying $80 for a card that will be going for $30-$40 later.
That's why I bite the bullet sometimes. U might over pay for something but if you never see it again you'll be kicking yourself later

Collecting: Phil Bickford, Brandon Wood (still), Yankees and Rockies
 

DyeHardFan

New member
Oct 31, 2016
12
I started collecting Alex Gordon this year and can't believe how overproduced his auto was his rookie year. I've collected Jermaine Dye for years and he only has 212 total autographed card variations across his whole career. Alex Gordon had 250+ autographs variations in his rookie year of 2007 ALONE! It's hard to quantify if Alex's autograph would've held more than a $10-20 value over his career if not for the overproduction of it his first year on the card market.

Not to mention how Panini has single-handedly ruined football jersey cards for me. Alex Gordon has 459 jersey cards over his career and most of them are actual game-used authentic pieces. Ameer Abdullah has had 1000+ jersey cards made of him in two years and not a single one is from an actual NFL game. Every single stupid piece is from a player/event/"worn" size 60+ oversized jersey that someone had him touch in an office one time.
 

predatorkj

New member
Aug 7, 2008
11,865
I started collecting Alex Gordon this year and can't believe how overproduced his auto was his rookie year. I've collected Jermaine Dye for years and he only has 212 total autographed card variations across his whole career. Alex Gordon had 250+ autographs variations in his rookie year of 2007 ALONE! It's hard to quantify if Alex's autograph would've held more than a $10-20 value over his career if not for the overproduction of it his first year on the card market.

Not to mention how Panini has single-handedly ruined football jersey cards for me. Alex Gordon has 459 jersey cards over his career and most of them are actual game-used authentic pieces. Ameer Abdullah has had 1000+ jersey cards made of him in two years and not a single one is from an actual NFL game. Every single stupid piece is from a player/event/"worn" size 60+ oversized jersey that someone had him touch in an office one time.
Ok, one thing you need to double check is the "game used" aspect of cards these days. Panini really is a good company in my opinion because they are at least letting you know things are event worn verses game used. Plus their football patch/jersey cards are showing some actual use. Don't recall very many if any older topps/upper deck/donruss gu cards showing much use. Prime Patches had some nice cards showing actual use(hat bands especially). But for the most part, you get plain(or in some cases really sick looking) jersey/patch pieces that are nice and clean. Which to me is odd. Take Craig Biggio for example. Has there ever been a game where he wasn't dirty after the 1st inning? Same thing can be said of Jose Altuve or Dustin Pedroia. Yet we have a whole slew of clean "GU" cards. Weird.

So I feel a lot of the baseball jersey/patch cards are either player issued or event worn. The good thing? Panini will mention this on the back so even though it's not game used, you'll know it going in. Which is why when I'm buying a card with a jersey piece or patch on it, if the seller won't scan the back, I just skip to the next one because I want to know what I'm buying. With topps though, they got really vague for a while and have now only even started trying to mimic Panini in this regard. And then they(topps) got sneakier with the generic "the enclosed relic piece in this card is not from any specific game, event, or season.". Which tells me nothing but leads me to believe the card is just event worn. Maybe it's not but when you have some cards that specify a card is game used, some that say it's event worn, and then the generic line above, what am I supposed to think? So I give kudos to Panini and will continue to buy their product in both wax form and on the secondary market.

The reason you're bummed out about Abdullah, I understand. But it is not a new fad. SP RPA(rookie pacth autos) were the biggest cards around for a while and none of them were gu but went for a small fortune depending on the players. Eye appeal and the auto were the selling points. Now it's Immaculate RPA's. Pretty much any new rookie in the NFL will not have any actual game used material to be used for the first two to three years of their career. I think Panini gets them but does not use them until they start to dwindle the supply of the rookie premier stuff. That's why what I spend on rookie cards with patch pieces is minimal. I want the rookie auto but the material is worthless to me.

As for Gordon having a ton of rookie autos, this has been going on for quite a while. Rookies are cheap in comparison to a vet, autograph wise, so they probably get a slew of stuff signed for cheap and just use the heck out of it. And they figure if somebody takes off and is having a good rookie season or is highly touted during/post draft day(Strasburg/Harper/Bryant), it'll help wax sell. Some of these sets have gotten better about including vet autos but you have to research the product and know what leans more heavily towards rookie autos and what has more vet stuff in it if that's what you're after. But what you describe with the overload of rookie autos will probably not change. Cheap way to fill up product.
 

smapdi

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
4,196
The "not from any specific game/event" verbiage on Topps cards is simply to prevent any confusion that the relic is intended to be the one shown in the picture on the card, or any event mentioned on the card. That is, if it's, say, a "500 Home Run Club" set and there's a piece of bat on it, they're not intending anyone to infer that it's the bat used to hit the 500th homer. And people make those sorts of inferences all the time.

I'd have to quibble and say Panini didn't ruin the GU market. It was ruined years ago by all makers. The definition of an "official major league game" is also fairly elastic, apparently including spring training and other exhibitions, old-timers games, and ceremonial events. They shouldn't make cards like this without clearly stating exactly what they are, but it's also a bit of caveat emptor. If someone is selling "game-worn" rookie cards and the season hasn't started yet, they couldn't really be game-worn, could they?
 

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