Jason Heyward: Underachiver or Lack Of Effort

[All The Hype]

A franchise of performers versus a franchise of potential? Sure, it would be my pleasure.

I suppose some people like to dream all the time about all the couldas, wouldas and shouldas... eventually it comes down to brass tacks.

You're forgetting that baseball is played in the real world, not in dream land. I've yet to ever watch a team who starts 9 consistent "performers" at a time.

Like it or not, player development is part of the game, and to get performers, you first have to develop them.

 

[markakis8]

We all know he is 22 years old, only a couple months removed from 23 to be specific, but that should not trump or negate that he is currently in his third year at the ML level. Having said that, and to restate my opinion, he obviously has star potential to be a .300/40/110 type player and features much the same skill set as Winfield had(do not mistake this as a claim that he will have a similar career). Yet now in his third year and rapidly approaching 23, he has yet to really adjust and showcase his natural talents thus far. To think this is not a reason for concern is fruitless. Should he be written off? Obviously not. But should there be some questions about his development thus far? I think so.

Robin Yount had an OPS of .593 his 3rd year in the majors. Dave Winfield .756 OPS. They were both very young as well. If the Braves are looking at him long term, Heyward has time to adjust.

 

[LazerShow15]

He is overrated and the one lazy play for Bryce's hit to RF pretty much sums it up. There are very few players who have the FIRE or intensity to play baseball and Jason is not one of them.

 

[cgilmo]

He is overrated and the one lazy play for Bryce's hit to RF pretty much sums it up. There are very few players who have the FIRE or intensity to play baseball and Jason is not one of them.

You are out of your damn mind. Heyward is one of the fiercest competitors ive ever seen.

 

[craftysouthpaw]

I don't see why age is a factor... for any player.

The player is either performing... or not performing. Age shouldn't create a bias.

Seriously? Age is one of the most important factors in analyzing a player's performance and predicting his future production. Every player prediction system out there is based upon age versus level. Every scouting report is based upon age vs. level.

Heyward has been an above average performer relative to all major leaguers over his age 20 through 22 seasons. That alone is a major accomplishment.

Like I said earlier, I have been frustrated he hasn't put it all together yet and turned into a .280/.400/.550 guy right off the bat. But that just isn't realistic and I try to keep reminding myself of that. Go back and see how many guys in history have turned in an OPS+ of 114 over their age 20 - 22 seasons and you'll be surprised how few there have been. His age 20 season was one of the best ever. Last year was wrecked by injuries. We're still not quite out of small sample size issues for this year.

And judging a guy's effort based upon one boneheaded play is just idiotic.

 

[jcmint]

I think you got hit in the head with one too many tomahawk chomps and are blinded badly. He can have all the potential in the world if it doesnt equate who cares. I can write a long list of guys with the potential and never put it together. Heyward is young and all that blah blah but he hasn't showed it yet. He also has shown some degree of laziness. We all saw it. All signs point to underachiever.

Hes still a future super star.

I get a kick out of people talking like hes a bum.

 

[LazerShow15]

You are out of your damn mind. Heyward is one of the fiercest competitors ive ever seen.

I have not seen it, he dogged it when I saw him in AFL and also has dogged in in the 5 games I have watched in the past 2 years. He is made of glass Just my opinion Gilmo. I know it sucks when people rank on your guy, I have had to take it for Braun the past 6 months, it sucks.

 

[matfanofold]

Seriously? Age is one of the most important factors in analyzing a player's performance and predicting his future production...

Obviously this is true, but to say a player who was the #1 prospect in all of baseball, now approaching 23, within his 3'rd year of service at the MLB level should be looked at through rose colored glasses with his age as the "most important factor" is not entirely plausable. At some point we he will be judged by his production and not potential/talent. This time is approaching, if not already here.

 

[ThoseBackPages]

Here we have another case of Cardboard Baseball vs. Real Life Baseball.

 

[cgilmo]

Here we have another case of Cardboard Baseball vs. Real Life Baseball.

You are aware that the braves and other real life scouts absolutely love Jason Heyward right? I am not defending him because of cards, I am defending him because some of you people are nut jobs.

 

[ThoseBackPages]

You are aware that the braves and other real life scouts absolutely love Jason Heyward right? I am not defending him because of cards, I am defending him because some of you people are nut jobs.

no, my statement was not towards your stance. it's towards those that equate how his cardboard was, is doing, and/or will do going forward. That's the nature of the beast here on FCB.

You're one of the biggest Braves fans that i know. Answer me this .... lets say that Jason Heyward's career parallels JD Drew without the injury issues (remember how many here said that Bryce Harper is the next JD Drew), would you be happy with a guy that plays Right Field everyday and your team wins a world series?

 

[cgilmo]

no, my statement was not towards your stance. it's towards those that equate how his cardboard was, is doing, and/or will do going forward. That's the nature of the beast here on FCB.

You're one of the biggest Braves fans that i know. Answer me this .... lets say that Jason Heyward's career parallels JD Drew without the injury issues (remember how many here said that Bryce Harper is the next JD Drew), would you be happy with a guy that plays Right Field everyday and your team wins a world series?

I would be thrilled with an injury free JD Drew + a world series.


Any result that equals a world series is a win for any fan. Or well, it should be.

 

[dp33]

You are aware that the braves and other real life scouts absolutely love Jason Heyward right? I am not defending him because of cards, I am defending him because some of you people are nut jobs.

That. Was. Awesome.

Jason Heyward has a 1.2 WAR in his lazy, underachieving 2012 season - just imagine what it would be if he was any good!

 

[HPC]

You are aware that the braves and other real life scouts absolutely love Jason Heyward right? I am not defending him because of cards, I am defending him because some of you people are nut jobs.

We know that you are defending him since you see him play everyday and can appreciate and understand what a tremendous talent he is.

That said, others are defending him simply because they bought too much of or overpaid for their cards and need to keep convincing others that he will have a major breakout season soon so they can get their money back.

It's the same people who have tried to defend BJ Upton all these years by continuously preaching what "pure athleticism" he has and how great his "athletic abilities" are while he continues to be mediocre. The same people who kept pushing the Matt LaPorta hype train even after he was performing terribly in the majors. The same people who said that Dallas McPherson was the 3b of the future and was going to hit 40+ every year.

This is a prospector heavy message board and let's face it, people keep defending players who havent lived up to their hype because they are financially invested. (I am by no means saying that people are not fans of certain players they prospect, but having money, especially large amounts of it, tied into a certain player will certainly give plenty of reason to keep hyping and defending a certain player's inability to produce what was expected.)

I'm under the belief that Heyward is still young, and will pan out to be a .280/25-30/80-100 type player once he fully matures physically and mentally.

 

[matfanofold]

After re-reading the entire thread I think it is safe to say that most here agree he is a great talent, and still respectively young. Also, I think we all but agree that he is underperforming (to varying degrees) based on his talent and abilities. With that said, the perverbial hair that seems to be split here is that just when should he begin to be judged more on performance rather than age and potential talent. Some, like me feel based on his age and expierence that he should be performing better than he is and has concerns about his adjustment ability thus far. Others feel that he is still too young to be held accountable for his performance and/or he is right where he should be in development.

What is worth noting here is that everyone agrees that his performance is worth debating right now or they would not be in this thread, and that also speaks volumes.

 

[HPC]

I am under the belief that right now he is too young to say anything close to definitive.

Now, if he gets to be 26 and we are still having this discussion...yeah.

 

[jcmint]

Well his cards sure tanked that much can be said. The guy had a ton of hype almost like griffey arod hype. The hype is slowly fading away as people who are watching him are getting the feeling his obvious skill set might not ever come together.

 

[matfanofold]

I am under the belief that right now he is too young to say anything close to definitive.

Now, if he gets to be 26 and we are still having this discussion...yeah.

You would really give him until his 6'th year of MLB expierence to look beyond age?

 

[HPC]

You would really give him until his 6'th year of MLB expierence to look beyond age?

Yes.

Another instance of cards vs reality.

Reality is that if he comes around at 26, he can still have a very successful career.

 

[matfanofold]

Yes.

Another instance of cards vs reality.

Reality is that if he comes around at 26, he can still have a very successful career.

I have not taken 'cards' in to this discussion once, nor does it have an impact on anything I am saying. But atleast you seem to agree the "if" in your statment is the concern being questioned here in this thread.