Josh Hamilton has alcohol relapse

[ChasHawk]

My point is, there is a real physiologic change that takes place with substance addiction. I agree that ultimately the person is responsible for their actions, but there has to be some middle ground. As I said before, I don't believe it's all black and white. It's not in the same place on the spectrum as other diseases, and while they still have a choice, that decision is not even close to being the same as it would for you and I.

Why not?

I smoked for 16 years. I was addicted. I would wait for my daughter to go down for a nap and then run out to the garage to have a cigarette.

But guess what? One day two years ago, I STOPPED PUTTING CIGARETTES IN MY MOUTH.

 

[WoundedDuck]

My point is, there is a real physiologic change that takes place with substance addiction. I agree that ultimately the person is responsible for their actions, but there has to be some middle ground. As I said before, I don't believe it's all black and white. It's not in the same place on the spectrum as other diseases, and while they still have a choice, that decision is not even close to being the same as it would for you and I.

Why not?

I smoked for 16 years. I was addicted. I would wait for my daughter to go down for a nap and then run out to the garage to have a cigarette.

But guess what? One day two years ago, I STOPPED PUTTING CIGARETTES IN MY MOUTH.

Your sample size is 1


Nicotine addiction can be considered a disease as well IMO.

 

[mudflap02]

My point is, there is a real physiologic change that takes place with substance addiction. I agree that ultimately the person is responsible for their actions, but there has to be some middle ground. As I said before, I don't believe it's all black and white. It's not in the same place on the spectrum as other diseases, and while they still have a choice, that decision is not even close to being the same as it would for you and I.

Why not?

I smoked for 16 years. I was addicted. I would wait for my daughter to go down for a nap and then run out to the garage to have a cigarette.

But guess what? One day two years ago, I STOPPED PUTTING CIGARETTES IN MY MOUTH.

And I bet people were super happy when you quit, and be disappointed but supportive if you started smoking again.

And by the way, none of the other topics you mentioned (obesity, aging, etc) are specifically listed as diseases on the CDC website, although they are all mentioned.

 

[mudflap02]

Haha why am I so hung up on this?

BECAUSE PEOPLE ON THE INETERNET ARE WRONG DAMN IT

 

[alexs64]

My point is, there is a real physiologic change that takes place with substance addiction. I agree that ultimately the person is responsible for their actions, but there has to be some middle ground. As I said before, I don't believe it's all black and white. It's not in the same place on the spectrum as other diseases, and while they still have a choice, that decision is not even close to being the same as it would for you and I.

Why not?

I smoked for 16 years. I was addicted. I would wait for my daughter to go down for a nap and then run out to the garage to have a cigarette.

But guess what? One day two years ago, I STOPPED PUTTING CIGARETTES IN MY MOUTH.

Your sample size is 1


Nicotine addiction can be considered a disease as well IMO.

His sample size is now 2. I smoked from 18 until I was 40. One day 3 years ago I just put them down and never bought them again. I am 43 now. and smoke free.

 

[ChasHawk]

My point is, there is a real physiologic change that takes place with substance addiction. I agree that ultimately the person is responsible for their actions, but there has to be some middle ground. As I said before, I don't believe it's all black and white. It's not in the same place on the spectrum as other diseases, and while they still have a choice, that decision is not even close to being the same as it would for you and I.

Why not?

I smoked for 16 years. I was addicted. I would wait for my daughter to go down for a nap and then run out to the garage to have a cigarette.

But guess what? One day two years ago, I STOPPED PUTTING CIGARETTES IN MY MOUTH.

Your sample size is 1

Nicotine addiction can be considered a disease as well IMO.

But here's the thing. In order for it to be a disease, you have to leave your house, go to the store, and give the clerk your money for a pack of cigarettes.

You don't go down to Speedway and buy a pack of ****** every morning.

 

[ChasHawk]

Haha why am I so hung up on this?

BECAUSE PEOPLE ON THE INETERNET ARE WRONG DAMN IT

exactly! :lol:

 

[WoundedDuck]

My point is, there is a real physiologic change that takes place with substance addiction. I agree that ultimately the person is responsible for their actions, but there has to be some middle ground. As I said before, I don't believe it's all black and white. It's not in the same place on the spectrum as other diseases, and while they still have a choice, that decision is not even close to being the same as it would for you and I.

Why not?

I smoked for 16 years. I was addicted. I would wait for my daughter to go down for a nap and then run out to the garage to have a cigarette.

But guess what? One day two years ago, I STOPPED PUTTING CIGARETTES IN MY MOUTH.

Your sample size is 1


Nicotine addiction can be considered a disease as well IMO.

His sample size is now 2. I smoked from 18 until I was 40. One day year I just put them down and never bought them again. I am 43 now. and smoke free.

People do the same thing with alcohol and drugs. That doesn't mean it's the same for everyone and drug/alcohol addiction is not a disease that at some physiologic level is not 100% within the addicts control.

I agree with most of what you guys are saying. He's definately reaping what he sowed. I don't feel as sorry for him as people with other crippling diseases. It is disappointing though. It's something for which he needs help and treatment. I do have some empathy. Physiologically he is not the same as someone without addiction.

 

[WoundedDuck]

Haha why am I so hung up on this?

BECAUSE PEOPLE ON THE INETERNET ARE WRONG DAMN IT

exactly! :lol:

haha I never get involved in this shat. I'm a middle of the road kind of guy for every discussion

 

[goldenegg1]

So the man likes to drink and whatever else. Who cares?

If he weren't Josh Hamilton of the MLB Texas Rangers it wouldn't even be news. Lincoln Parker of Johnson City, Tn likes to drink too. I don't see the media headlines, the public outcry or the forum banter on this. Nobody hung their heads and shook them with judgemental looks when Mantle was seen at a bar getting trashed or when Billy Martin was racking up DUI's. They were grown men who chose to do as they pleased. So is Hamilton.

People should worry more about themselves and less about what others choose to do on their own time. Media has really dumbed society down and made female privates parts out of so many Americans.

Billy Martin and Mickey Mantle weren't out in the public praising Jesus for helping them fight their evils either.

 

[phillyfan0417]

My point is, there is a real physiologic change that takes place with substance addiction. I agree that ultimately the person is responsible for their actions, but there has to be some middle ground. As I said before, I don't believe it's all black and white. It's not in the same place on the spectrum as other diseases, and while they still have a choice, that decision is not even close to being the same as it would for you and I.

Why not?

I smoked for 16 years. I was addicted. I would wait for my daughter to go down for a nap and then run out to the garage to have a cigarette.

But guess what? One day two years ago, I STOPPED PUTTING CIGARETTES IN MY MOUTH.

Your sample size is 1

Nicotine addiction can be considered a disease as well IMO.

But here's the thing. In order for it to be a disease, you have to leave your house, go to the store, and give the clerk your money for a pack of cigarettes.

You don't go down to Speedway and buy a pack of ****** every morning.

But you go to the supermarket and buy your heart disease.


I really wish I could get my brain to work in black and white, I would be able to save myself so much grief.

 

[Mozzie22]

No one sets out to be chemically dependent on anything and only an ignorant fool would say addiction to alcohol and opiates is not a true disease.

Glad a few here can be glib and have lived their lives so perfect that they can toss those stones from behind the comfort of their computer screen. Hope they are comfortable in their judging this Sunday at church.

Good luck to JH, it's a terrible disease that he found himself in and has done well for many years. Stay strong and get the help you need.

Wrong! The first time that loser stuck a needle in his arm or took a drink he sent himself down that road and nobody made him do it. Oh the poor defenseless drug addict, boo hoo. A disease is something that can’t be prevented; Cancer, ALS, MS, etc. Drug addiction is not a disease it’s a consequence of poor decisions. You wrote "it's a terrible disease that he found himself in," he didn't "find himself" in it, he caused this himself and you think he deserves to be admired and praised.

Why don't you climb down off your cross and get a life.

Ugh. This post really just riles me up. There is just so much you don't seem to understand.

Yes, addiction stems from poor decisions. Every person who has ever lived has made a poor decision or two at some point in their lives. Mozzie, would you care to answer the following question - Have you ever smoked marijuana, used any other illegal drug, or did you drink alcohol before the age of 21? Most people have done at least one of the 3. Some people (addicts and alcoholics) just handle it differently than others. I can stand out in the sun for a long time without getting a sunburn. Mrs. Mudflap turns pink after about 10 seconds in direct sunlight because she is a light skinned Irish lady. Our bodies are just different and we all handle unique physical stimuli differently. Read up on the definition of a disease, along with the medical community's view of alcoholism and addiction as diseases, before you come in a public forum and start spouting off facts. "Cancer is not preventable." Right. Some forms of cancer are not preventable. Tell the person who smoked for 60 years that their lung cancer was not preventable.

Recovered addicts and alcoholics deserve to be praised the same way that cancer survivors deserve to be praised. One may be easier to beat than the other, but it is commendable to fight against what is killing you as opposed to letting it consume you without a struggle. Just because Josh Hamilton (or any other person in recovery) is looked up to doesn't mean that someone can't look up to teachers, soldiers, firefighters, whatever sort of stereotypical hero everyone is supposed to adore. He didn't make a conscious decision to become an addict, he made a conscious decision to use drugs once without knowing the path it would lead him down. You probably made the same poor decision at some point in your life, but your path led elsewhere.

I admit that I am not a doctor but I can definitively diagnose you as *Edit* Having a differing opinion. You absolutely cannot be serious about what you wrote here.

To answer your question I have never tried illegal drugs and do you know why? Because they are addictive!!! Any moron knows this. Every school district in the country starts pumping the “drugs are bad for you” message from the time you enter kindergarten to the day you graduate and that’s not to mention your parents!

I understand addiction perfectly. I have known numerous drug and alcohol addicts and understand the grip the drugs have on people but it doesn’t change the fact that all they have to do is simply stop taking them. Does smoking contribute to cancer? Sure. But nonsmokers get cancer every day and I am embarrassed for you that you feel beating cancer in any way equates to beating a drug addiction.

 

[goldenegg1]

My point is, there is a real physiologic change that takes place with substance addiction. I agree that ultimately the person is responsible for their actions, but there has to be some middle ground. As I said before, I don't believe it's all black and white. It's not in the same place on the spectrum as other diseases, and while they still have a choice, that decision is not even close to being the same as it would for you and I.

Why not?

I smoked for 16 years. I was addicted. I would wait for my daughter to go down for a nap and then run out to the garage to have a cigarette.

But guess what? One day two years ago, I STOPPED PUTTING CIGARETTES IN MY MOUTH.

Your sample size is 1

Nicotine addiction can be considered a disease as well IMO.

But here's the thing. In order for it to be a disease, you have to leave your house, go to the store, and give the clerk your money for a pack of cigarettes.

You don't go down to Speedway and buy a pack of ****** every morning.

Depends on where you live I guess :lol:

 

[ChasHawk]

My point is, there is a real physiologic change that takes place with substance addiction. I agree that ultimately the person is responsible for their actions, but there has to be some middle ground. As I said before, I don't believe it's all black and white. It's not in the same place on the spectrum as other diseases, and while they still have a choice, that decision is not even close to being the same as it would for you and I.

Why not?

I smoked for 16 years. I was addicted. I would wait for my daughter to go down for a nap and then run out to the garage to have a cigarette.

But guess what? One day two years ago, I STOPPED PUTTING CIGARETTES IN MY MOUTH.

Your sample size is 1

Nicotine addiction can be considered a disease as well IMO.

But here's the thing. In order for it to be a disease, you have to leave your house, go to the store, and give the clerk your money for a pack of cigarettes.

You don't go down to Speedway and buy a pack of ****** every morning.

But you go to the supermarket and buy your heart disease.

I really wish I could get my brain to work in black and white, I would be able to save myself so much grief.

Which is also a choice. You just reinforced my point... :lol:

 

[phillyfan0417]

[quote="WoundedDuck":3rzpo1al]My point is, there is a real physiologic change that takes place with substance addiction. I agree that ultimately the person is responsible for their actions, but there has to be some middle ground. As I said before, I don't believe it's all black and white. It's not in the same place on the spectrum as other diseases, and while they still have a choice, that decision is not even close to being the same as it would for you and I.

Why not?

I smoked for 16 years. I was addicted. I would wait for my daughter to go down for a nap and then run out to the garage to have a cigarette.

But guess what? One day two years ago, I STOPPED PUTTING CIGARETTES IN MY MOUTH.

Your sample size is 1

Nicotine addiction can be considered a disease as well IMO.

But here's the thing. In order for it to be a disease, you have to leave your house, go to the store, and give the clerk your money for a pack of cigarettes.

You don't go down to Speedway and buy a pack of ****** every morning.

But you go to the supermarket and buy your heart disease.

I really wish I could get my brain to work in black and white, I would be able to save myself so much grief.

Which is also a choice. You just reinforced my point... :lol:[/quote:3rzpo1al]


So if your past smoking was to cause a disease, god forbid, would you be ok if people didnt consider it one since the cause was your choice?

I'm having trouble following your logic?

 

[Slette]

My point is, there is a real physiologic change that takes place with substance addiction. I agree that ultimately the person is responsible for their actions, but there has to be some middle ground. As I said before, I don't believe it's all black and white. It's not in the same place on the spectrum as other diseases, and while they still have a choice, that decision is not even close to being the same as it would for you and I.

Why not?

I smoked for 16 years. I was addicted. I would wait for my daughter to go down for a nap and then run out to the garage to have a cigarette.

But guess what? One day two years ago, I STOPPED PUTTING CIGARETTES IN MY MOUTH.

Your sample size is 1

Nicotine addiction can be considered a disease as well IMO.

But here's the thing. In order for it to be a disease, you have to leave your house, go to the store, and give the clerk your money for a pack of cigarettes.

You don't go down to Speedway and buy a pack of ****** every morning.

Can't imagine those would sell any better than the 5 Hour Hepatitis bottles they keep by the register

 

[elmalo]

Well, shopping is a disease and Im one big shopaholic. I just cant keep my hands off that Gucci! It's super!

 

[ChasHawk]

[quote="ChasHawk":bghh6ths][quote="WoundedDuck":bghh6ths]My point is, there is a real physiologic change that takes place with substance addiction. I agree that ultimately the person is responsible for their actions, but there has to be some middle ground. As I said before, I don't believe it's all black and white. It's not in the same place on the spectrum as other diseases, and while they still have a choice, that decision is not even close to being the same as it would for you and I.

Why not?

I smoked for 16 years. I was addicted. I would wait for my daughter to go down for a nap and then run out to the garage to have a cigarette.

But guess what? One day two years ago, I STOPPED PUTTING CIGARETTES IN MY MOUTH.

Your sample size is 1

Nicotine addiction can be considered a disease as well IMO.

But here's the thing. In order for it to be a disease, you have to leave your house, go to the store, and give the clerk your money for a pack of cigarettes.

You don't go down to Speedway and buy a pack of ****** every morning.

But you go to the supermarket and buy your heart disease.

I really wish I could get my brain to work in black and white, I would be able to save myself so much grief.

Which is also a choice. You just reinforced my point... :lol:[/quote:bghh6ths]
So if your past smoking was to cause a disease, god forbid, would you be ok if people didnt consider it one since the cause was your choice?

I'm having trouble following your logic?[/quote:bghh6ths]
Completely different scenario.

Lung cancer is a disease.

"I can't stop putting these sticks in my mouth and setting them on fire" is not.



Cirrhosis is a disease.

"I can't stop pouring alcohol in my mouth" is not.


You can't get rid of lung cancer once you have it by stopping smoking.

You can stop drinking by...wait for it...stopping drinking.

 

[mudflap02]

No one sets out to be chemically dependent on anything and only an ignorant fool would say addiction to alcohol and opiates is not a true disease.

Glad a few here can be glib and have lived their lives so perfect that they can toss those stones from behind the comfort of their computer screen. Hope they are comfortable in their judging this Sunday at church.

Good luck to JH, it's a terrible disease that he found himself in and has done well for many years. Stay strong and get the help you need.

Wrong! The first time that loser stuck a needle in his arm or took a drink he sent himself down that road and nobody made him do it. Oh the poor defenseless drug addict, boo hoo. A disease is something that can’t be prevented; Cancer, ALS, MS, etc. Drug addiction is not a disease it’s a consequence of poor decisions. You wrote "it's a terrible disease that he found himself in," he didn't "find himself" in it, he caused this himself and you think he deserves to be admired and praised.

Why don't you climb down off your cross and get a life.

Ugh. This post really just riles me up. There is just so much you don't seem to understand.

Yes, addiction stems from poor decisions. Every person who has ever lived has made a poor decision or two at some point in their lives. Mozzie, would you care to answer the following question - Have you ever smoked marijuana, used any other illegal drug, or did you drink alcohol before the age of 21? Most people have done at least one of the 3. Some people (addicts and alcoholics) just handle it differently than others. I can stand out in the sun for a long time without getting a sunburn. Mrs. Mudflap turns pink after about 10 seconds in direct sunlight because she is a light skinned Irish lady. Our bodies are just different and we all handle unique physical stimuli differently. Read up on the definition of a disease, along with the medical community's view of alcoholism and addiction as diseases, before you come in a public forum and start spouting off facts. "Cancer is not preventable." Right. Some forms of cancer are not preventable. Tell the person who smoked for 60 years that their lung cancer was not preventable.

Recovered addicts and alcoholics deserve to be praised the same way that cancer survivors deserve to be praised. One may be easier to beat than the other, but it is commendable to fight against what is killing you as opposed to letting it consume you without a struggle. Just because Josh Hamilton (or any other person in recovery) is looked up to doesn't mean that someone can't look up to teachers, soldiers, firefighters, whatever sort of stereotypical hero everyone is supposed to adore. He didn't make a conscious decision to become an addict, he made a conscious decision to use drugs once without knowing the path it would lead him down. You probably made the same poor decision at some point in your life, but your path led elsewhere.

I admit that I am not a doctor but I can definitively diagnose you as *Edit* Having a differing opinion. You absolutely cannot be serious about what you wrote here.

To answer your question I have never tried illegal drugs and do you know why? Because they are addictive!!! Any moron knows this. Every school district in the country starts pumping the “drugs are bad for you” message from the time you enter kindergarten to the day you graduate and that’s not to mention your parents!

I understand addiction perfectly. I have known numerous drug and alcohol addicts and understand the grip the drugs have on people but it doesn’t change the fact that all they have to do is simply stop taking them. Does smoking contribute to cancer? Sure. But nonsmokers get cancer every day and I am embarrassed for you that you feel beating cancer in any way equates to beating a drug addiction.

Answer the other part of the question please - about drinking before the age of 21.

And illegal drugs are not necessarily addictive - the only thing they are with 100% certainty is illegal.

 

[ChasHawk]

Answer the other part of the question please - about drinking before the age of 21.

I did.

Am I an alcoholic now?