Juan Pierre's HOF chances

[A_Pharis]

Here is a quick fact i just read - Juan Pierre scored the 1,000th run of his career Friday night with only 16 of those coming on his home runs. The only other player who debuted in the live-ball era (1920 to date) who had fewer than 20 home runs at the time of his 1,000th career run is Maury Wills, who had 18 homers at that time.


I agree with everyone that has said he doesnt belong or there is nothing that spells hofer on him but if the Dude somehow some way gets to 3000 hits and 700 sb (like leatherman said) and keeps his walk total higher than his strikeout total he will get into the hall. Keep in mind he has more stolen bases than stikeouts and has never struck out more than 52 times in a season. I really cant fathom it myself as i would have never thought Juan would even come close to sniffing the hall but after looking closley at his stats who knows. I know that he has plenty of stats on why he shouldnt be a hofer but trust me 3000 hits and 700 sb will override all those negatives real quick. We will see though as someone has alrady stated he might not have a Job in the mlb long enough to get those milestones.

Excellent.

Can anyone agree that one of his MAJOR downfalls is his lack of star power? His lack of being a team's face? The guy isn't a baseball personality, but he's had some pretty interesting storylines. More stolen bases than strikeouts?
I think it's just hard for a player to get recognition these days unless he's a homerun hitting freak or a Twitter/media maniac.

 

[jumbojohnny]

I think to get a shot at the HOF, he is going to have to break the Season HR record, then again the following year, and one last time after that...Then Maybe he has a shot.

 

[George_Calfas]

Career OPS of .708 paired with mediocre defense. If you are going to put up those types of numbers offensively, you better be able to field like Ozzie Smith. I'd say Pierre is a below-average defender with a horrible arm.

Ah, yes facts and observations rather than broad brush comments.

 

[leatherman]

This topic is a miserable failure

I'll be sure to get your approval in the future before I start new threads.

3000 hits has punched the HOF ticket for every eligible baseball player in the history of the game, with the exception of Palmeiro. I made a similar argument on thepit.com for Craig Biggio back during the 2003 season, and I was laughed at by 80% of the message board. He reached 3000 hits, and I am fairly confident that he will be elected to the HOF.

Every eligible player but Tim Raines with 2500 hits and 500 stolen bases is in the HOF, and these are marks that Pierre will almost certainly meet. Raines got 48.7% of the vote last year, his 5th of eligibility, and will likely be elected in the next few years.

But if Pierre plays 6 more years and reaches 3000 hits, you just never know.

 

[Frow]

Far too many players flame out between 2k-3k which is why the 3k margin is so important of a milestone. He's a ways away from that mark and given his age it'll be a big question mark how strong his wheels will be down the road and given that it will take ~6 seasons of the same production to get him into even starting the debate, it seems unlikely.

 

[mlbsalltimegreats]

Excellent.

Can anyone agree that one of his MAJOR downfalls is his lack of star power? His lack of being a team's face? The guy isn't a baseball personality, but he's had some pretty interesting storylines. More stolen bases than strikeouts?
I think it's just hard for a player to get recognition these days unless he's a homerun hitting freak or a Twitter/media maniac.

I agree Adam but as someone stated earlier if he starts to get close to 3000 hits espn will start to go crazy on it (as they do with everything :lol and that will be all the star power and recognition he needs. I feel embarrassed to say this but I honestly did not know Craig Biggio was close to 3000 hits till espn ran it. Now the dude is going into the Hall. If hes in the League another 3 more years then I may start to believe :lol:

 

[UMich92]

429 hits. That's how many Tim Raines had in his age 35+ years. I would suspect Pierre will see a similar decline and therefore wouldn't even sniff 3000 hits. But if he does somehow get to 3000, I think he'll eventually get in. Maybe if he does get close, his career will get reexamined alongside that of Raines thus giving Raines' career a boost and the writers will finally recognize he is deserving of the HOF.

 

[mlbsalltimegreats]

429 hits. That's how many Tim Raines had in his age 35+ years. I would suspect Pierre will see a similar decline and therefore wouldn't even sniff 3000 hits. But if he does somehow get to 3000, I think he'll eventually get in. Maybe if he does get close, his career will get reexamined alongside that of Raines thus giving Raines' career a boost and the writers will finally recognize he is deserving of the HOF.

Thats True but I honestly think Raines will eventually get in before any of that has to happen.

 

[Topnotchsy]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I do not think that the OP is saying that Pierre will get 3000 hits, or that he deserves to be a HOFer. He seems to be considering what would happen if Pierre got to 3000 hits, because at that point in time we'd be entering unchartered territory. We'd have a player who by almost every imaginable standard is far from a HOFer, yet he'll have compiled numbers that have always translated to automatic entry in the Hall (outside of Palmeiro and the Roids stuff.)

That has me thinking, any chance Pierre was on steroids...

 

[19braves77]

He needs to stay in the NL or go to a team like Houston that will give him the at bats.

 

[Frow]

Thats True but I honestly think Raines will eventually get in before any of that has to happen.

Unfortunately I think we might have our next Jim Rice, he gets enough ballots to stay but do you really see him suddenly picking up a 20% of the vote when McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, Palmero, and Clemens are all on the ballot next year and taking over the conversation. The past three years were probably his best chance, but just like in 1999 there are far too many players that are going to spread around the votes are at least the eyeballs. Then in 2014 we add in Greg Maddux and Frank Thomas to the mix along with whomever is left over from the 2013 ballot and then on top of that 2015 rolls around and there a few more to add to the ballot which may or may not be deserving and I just see his totals going down, not up.

 

[TNP777]

Great topic!

My first reaction when I read the thread title was most likely the same as everyone else's - "did I just see Juan Pierre and HOF in the same sentence?" Then I saw 29 responses to the thread, so I opened it up. Interesting numbers and reasoning to say the least. If he should get to the 3000/700 milestones (I agree with everyone else - big ifs), then... why not? God, I'm trying to wrap my mind around a player that people just don't really think about reaching those plateaus and knocking on the door of the HOF asking to be let in.

I will say this, though - I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for the guy. No question in my mind that he saved the Dodgers in 2009 when the Dreadlocked ******* in left field tested positive for steroids. Truthfully, I was sorry to see him go.

 

[Frow]

Great topic!

My first reaction when I read the thread title was most likely the same as everyone else's - "did I just see Juan Pierre and HOF in the same sentence?" Then I saw 29 responses to the thread, so I opened it up. Interesting numbers and reasoning to say the least. If he should get to the 3000/700 milestones (I agree with everyone else - big ifs), then... why not? God, I'm trying to wrap my mind around a player that people just don't really think about reaching those plateaus and knocking on the door of the HOF asking to be let in.

I will say this, though - I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for the guy. No question in my mind that he saved the Dodgers in 2009 when the Dreadlocked ******* in left field tested positive for steroids. Truthfully, I was sorry to see him go.

I honestly didn't even know he was still playing so I understand your surprise

Sent from my LG-P925 using Sports Cards by Freedom Card Board.com

 

[PadresFan86]

Ah, yes facts and observations rather than broad brush comments.

Sorry I didn't provide a 3 page essay as to why Pierre doesn't belong in the hall. I usually don't feel the need to detail the obvious.

 

[leatherman]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I do not think that the OP is saying that Pierre will get 3000 hits, or that he deserves to be a HOFer. He seems to be considering what would happen if Pierre got to 3000 hits, because at that point in time we'd be entering unchartered territory. We'd have a player who by almost every imaginable standard is far from a HOFer, yet he'll have compiled numbers that have always translated to automatic entry in the Hall (outside of Palmeiro and the Roids stuff.)

This is EXACTLY what I am saying.

 

[HPC]

This is EXACTLY what I am saying.

Even then, the rest of his statistics are far from HOF worthiness.

Just because someone sticks around long enough to reach 3000 hits while producing marginally everywhere else does not mean he is a HOF'er

How many top 10 finishes in MVP's did he have? How many times was he top 5 in batting, or RBI, or HR? How many times was he an All-Star? How many times did he have a high OPS?

Offense, Defense, etc...Those are all things voters take into account.

 

[James52411]

Beyond the stats not being Hall-worthy, anyone who has seen Juan Pierre play knows he is not a HOFer.

 

[CubsfanP]

As good a chance as Jose Canseco

 

[chompsmcgee]

Again, why? OP posted stats and facts and solicited opinions. Why is he not HOF worthy?

27.6 career WAR in 13 seasons with as empty a batting average you'll find. He's excelled at basically one thing his entire career: baserunning. That's not gonna get you into the hall.

Meanwhile, Rock Raines is laughing out loud while dying a little more inside...

 

[George_Calfas]

27.6 career WAR in 13 seasons with as empty a batting average you'll find. He's excelled at basically one thing his entire career: baserunning. That's not gonna get you into the hall.

Meanwhile, Rock Raines is laughing out loud while dying a little more inside...

I know why I think he is not hall worthy......my quote was aimed at the poster taking a jab at the OP. Post that Pierre making the hall is joke but toss in a couple of stats......dont just post to post.