LEAF 2010 MMA CHECKLIST IS NOW AVAILABLE

[Leaf]

"The logistics and opportunity to do this project (Ill spare the details, per boar member advice) made stickers a necessity for the first set.
The second set and those moving forward are slated to be on-card."

The above statement: "slated" means planned....
Thus, we are completely palnning on-card second set (even though we might lose some names because of it).
BG

 

[JustinG08]

This product relies on best mma checklist ever ...

We are looking at on card in future, but it is absolutely not as easy as one might think... Bg

That's nice and all but many people like myself simply don't collect sticker autos. I really hope you don't backtrack on your statement that the next product will be on-card.

For the next set:
The autograph checklist will be MUCH more limited due to on-card, but youll see why on-card is important when we announce it.

However, I believe sticker autographs will be part of this hobby for the forseeable future, its our job to try to do on-card whenever possible to mitigate this.
With 100+ fighters and the challenges with getting many of these guys to even participate, on-card for the first product was truly impossible.
I personally would sacrifice on-card and use stickers if that was the only way FEDOR, KING MO and others were attainable... and in this case for this set it was...

But, I hear ya and totally appreciate the disdain for stickers.
BG

Thanks for the reply Brian, i'll be looking forward to the announcement. I know my post might have sounded like I was just being negative towards your product but in reality I just want to give you input that may help this product become a success.

 

[Ty Hope]

Just out of curiosity, how is it easier to send athletes stickers instead of cards? I know that stickers are useful for companies because they can be used again and again in the future, but why for one product? Surely the higher shipping costs for cards over stickers cant be the reason?

Stickers 99% of the time look like ass. Even the ones that DO fit well with the design don't change the most important fact (to me at least). They never touched the card. As a collector, this is a BIG deal to me.

Will I pick up a Fedor? Yes, because it is currently the only option. But I'll most likely be getting one box or even just some loose packs as opposed to the case I was kinda planning on when this product was announced months ago.

I REALLY like your company, and I like the direction that you are headed. The customer service is kick-ass. Stickers will turn me away from MANY products though.

 

[Leaf]

Just out of curiosity, how is it easier to send athletes stickers instead of cards? I know that stickers are useful for companies because they can be used again and again in the future, but why for one product? Surely the higher shipping costs for cards over stickers cant be the reason?

Stickers 99% of the time look like ass. Even the ones that DO fit well with the design don't change the most important fact (to me at least). They never touched the card. As a collector, this is a BIG deal to me.

Will I pick up a Fedor? Yes, because it is currently the only option. But I'll most likely be getting one box or even just some loose packs as opposed to the case I was kinda planning on when this product was announced months ago.

I REALLY like your company, and I like the direction that you are headed. The customer service is kick-ass. Stickers will turn me away from MANY products though.

The problem is:

We do a deal with X fighter (say Fedor). We spend forever negotiating, we finally get a deal done and he wants to sign TOMMORROW. Lead times fror setting up the forms, deisgn, photo acquisition,printing,etc is 4-6 weeks. He can sign stickers NOW. We have had guys pass on deals unless he could do them RIGHT NOW. Many guys dont want to do deals and wait months to sign. Problem is, until they sign their deal, we cannot design and print the cards.

Now, with deals in place, we can print knowing we have right to more autographs at $x price.
In addition, sending cards to personalities often results in lost cards, damages, missed autos,smears,etc that are not common with stickers.
These raise our cost and in turn raise your cost.
The worst scenario is the fighter (or UPS) loses the cards after they are signed. This would be a terrible reason to have a huge name missing from a set.

Hope all these thoughts help.
BG

 

[HPC]

Just out of curiosity, how is it easier to send athletes stickers instead of cards? I know that stickers are useful for companies because they can be used again and again in the future, but why for one product? Surely the higher shipping costs for cards over stickers cant be the reason?

Stickers 99% of the time look like ass. Even the ones that DO fit well with the design don't change the most important fact (to me at least). They never touched the card. As a collector, this is a BIG deal to me.

Will I pick up a Fedor? Yes, because it is currently the only option. But I'll most likely be getting one box or even just some loose packs as opposed to the case I was kinda planning on when this product was announced months ago.

I REALLY like your company, and I like the direction that you are headed. The customer service is kick-ass. Stickers will turn me away from MANY products though.

The problem is:

We do a deal with X fighter (say Fedor). We spend forever negotiating, we finally get a deal done and he wants to sign TOMMORROW. Lead times fror setting up the forms, deisgn, photo acquisition,printing,etc is 4-6 weeks. He can sign stickers NOW. We have had guys pass on deals unless he could do them RIGHT NOW. Many guys dont want to do deals and wait months to sign. Problem is, until they sign their deal, we cannot design and print the cards.

Now, with deals in place, we can print knowing we have right to more autographs at $x price.
In addition, sending cards to personalities often results in lost cards, damages, missed autos,smears,etc that are not common with stickers.
These raise our cost and in turn raise your cost.
The worst scenario is the fighter (or UPS) loses the cards after they are signed. This would be a terrible reason to have a huge name missing from a set.

Hope all these thoughts help.
BG

Definitely understand what you mean.

I think we, as collectors (and even yourself), are disillusioned with stickers in general for any product.

I can, and im sure Ty can, understands the company's aspect of a sticker auto compared to an on-card auto, but stickers in general just dont appeal to most.

Hopefully next set can and will be OC

 

[Super Mario]

Just out of curiosity, how is it easier to send athletes stickers instead of cards? I know that stickers are useful for companies because they can be used again and again in the future, but why for one product? Surely the higher shipping costs for cards over stickers cant be the reason?

Stickers 99% of the time look like ass. Even the ones that DO fit well with the design don't change the most important fact (to me at least). They never touched the card. As a collector, this is a BIG deal to me.

Will I pick up a Fedor? Yes, because it is currently the only option. But I'll most likely be getting one box or even just some loose packs as opposed to the case I was kinda planning on when this product was announced months ago.

I REALLY like your company, and I like the direction that you are headed. The customer service is kick-ass. Stickers will turn me away from MANY products though.

The problem is:

We do a deal with X fighter (say Fedor). We spend forever negotiating, we finally get a deal done and he wants to sign TOMMORROW. Lead times fror setting up the forms, deisgn, photo acquisition,printing,etc is 4-6 weeks. He can sign stickers NOW. We have had guys pass on deals unless he could do them RIGHT NOW. Many guys dont want to do deals and wait months to sign. Problem is, until they sign their deal, we cannot design and print the cards.


Now, with deals in place, we can print knowing we have right to more autographs at $x price.
In addition, sending cards to personalities often results in lost cards, damages, missed autos,smears,etc that are not common with stickers.
These raise our cost and in turn raise your cost.
The worst scenario is the fighter (or UPS) loses the cards after they are signed. This would be a terrible reason to have a huge name missing from a set.

Hope all these thoughts help.
BG

Doesn't really help at all to be honest.

UPS can lose stickers just as easy as they can lose cards, they you're SOL too. And those stickers could end up on anything.

AND I thought baseball card companies always had representatives there to witness the signings? Could be Vladimir Finklestine signing these stickers for all you know then. That's great if you don't mind having forged autographes in your product you're going to probably be charging out of the ass for because there's like 8 hits a box, which will keep me from buying any before they are even released.

And about not being able to print the cards until they sign. Okay, I'd buy this if it were coming from a phone rep who's told what to say to be a buffer, but not the owner who calls all the shots. Okay, you can't print them, BUT if you're in serious negotiations, what's wrong with having them ready to print the minute they sign so they can be in the printing process as soon as they sign and be ready to be mailed out the next morning.

AND you're the one in negotiations with the athlete, so if I owned a company and really wanted on card autographs, I think it'd be pretty simple to let them know up front, say, the earliest we could do the signing is X days after the contract is signed so we have the assurance that the cards will be printed and ready to sign. A, you'll have on card auto's in your product, which will make the fans happy. B, the outrageous prices will be somewhat justified knowing you went the extra mile. C, if the fighters won't take an extra 2 days to signs, **** 'em. They're a dick.



So there's my reply to that. I respectfully call BS on just about everything you said.

The real reason I think card companies have athletes sign stickers is because they're azy.

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

No one said stickers are ideal, but a Fedor autograph is still a quality pull.

In regards to production, from print to delivery depending on the finish, paper and quantity, it's closer to a week instead of one day.

That said, the obvious solution would be to print the cards with a guy like Fedor before the negotiations are finalized, assuming all goes well with the contract, cards are ready. If the negotiations go nowhere...destroy the cards. Then of course you have possible leaked cards, enormous hobby buzz, etc. The problem with this scenario is that if the negotiations hit a wall, you now have produced (but not distributed) a card featuring someone you do not have the rights to produce and therefore can deal with some ugly potential lawsuits.

It seems like a guy like Fedor would be the extreme situation because he seems notoriously tough to negotiate anything with.

I can see both sides of the debate and each way can lead to problems. Hard signed cards with damage often get sent back for replacement and the company is out the autograph expense on the card, sticker cards are...well..sticker autographs. And in both cases, lost autographs are lost autographs - on-card or not.

 

[matchpenalty]

Can't wait to see the breaks of this stuff.

 

[matchpenalty]

So their is two types cases. Does international cases have some extra stuff in them. Was just looking at presell prices on blowout. Really cool seeing some first cert autos from some of these guys.

 

[Ty Hope]

Thanks for the response Brian.

I just have always had a deep hatred for sticker autos. Always will. There are very very few cards in my collection that are stickers. Usually the only reason I have them at all is because on-card autos of that person simply do not exist.

One thing that really gets to me is when the back of the card says something like "Congratulations! You have received a card that has been autographed by so and so..." Well, no, it wasn't signed by so and so. The sticker was.

Anyway, back on topic, I do realize that ALL card companies run into signing problems. I understand this and it does suck. The unfortunate truth though is that when spending my hard earned money, sticker autos turn me away. They just come across as cheap looking, are often on crooked (or upside-down), the auto looks like crap because they have to fit their signature into a small space (often it doesnt fit), and some are actually starting to peel from the card.

I know you guys are working hard, and like I said before I like the direction you are heading. If you really want to stand out from your competitors though, finding a way to go on-card is definitely one way to go about it for the future. Topps, UD, etc have gotten extremely lazy over the last 10 years. Trust me, collectors notice things and word gets around. Just the other day I broke some packs of Topps T-206 in the shop along with other regulars. We were expecting on-card autos but were treated to shiny silver stickers on mini framed cards. It quickly became a joke like "seriously...?? Stickers on minis?"

BTW, do you have an estimated price per box?

Thanks again.

 

[Leaf]

[quote="Ty Hope":2eire9sw]Just out of curiosity, how is it easier to send athletes stickers instead of cards? I know that stickers are useful for companies because they can be used again and again in the future, but why for one product? Surely the higher shipping costs for cards over stickers cant be the reason?

Stickers 99% of the time look like ass. Even the ones that DO fit well with the design don't change the most important fact (to me at least). They never touched the card. As a collector, this is a BIG deal to me.

Will I pick up a Fedor? Yes, because it is currently the only option. But I'll most likely be getting one box or even just some loose packs as opposed to the case I was kinda planning on when this product was announced months ago.

I REALLY like your company, and I like the direction that you are headed. The customer service is kick-ass. Stickers will turn me away from MANY products though.

The problem is:

We do a deal with X fighter (say Fedor). We spend forever negotiating, we finally get a deal done and he wants to sign TOMMORROW. Lead times fror setting up the forms, deisgn, photo acquisition,printing,etc is 4-6 weeks. He can sign stickers NOW. We have had guys pass on deals unless he could do them RIGHT NOW. Many guys dont want to do deals and wait months to sign. Problem is, until they sign their deal, we cannot design and print the cards.


Now, with deals in place, we can print knowing we have right to more autographs at $x price.
In addition, sending cards to personalities often results in lost cards, damages, missed autos,smears,etc that are not common with stickers.
These raise our cost and in turn raise your cost.
The worst scenario is the fighter (or UPS) loses the cards after they are signed. This would be a terrible reason to have a huge name missing from a set.

Hope all these thoughts help.
BG

Doesn't really help at all to be honest.

UPS can lose stickers just as easy as they can lose cards, they you're SOL too. And those stickers could end up on anything.

AND I thought baseball card companies always had representatives there to witness the signings? Could be Vladimir Finklestine signing these stickers for all you know then. That's great if you don't mind having forged autographes in your product you're going to probably be charging out of the ass for because there's like 8 hits a box, which will keep me from buying any before they are even released.

And about not being able to print the cards until they sign. Okay, I'd buy this if it were coming from a phone rep who's told what to say to be a buffer, but not the owner who calls all the shots. Okay, you can't print them, BUT if you're in serious negotiations, what's wrong with having them ready to print the minute they sign so they can be in the printing process as soon as they sign and be ready to be mailed out the next morning.

AND you're the one in negotiations with the athlete, so if I owned a company and really wanted on card autographs, I think it'd be pretty simple to let them know up front, say, the earliest we could do the signing is X days after the contract is signed so we have the assurance that the cards will be printed and ready to sign. A, you'll have on card auto's in your product, which will make the fans happy. B, the outrageous prices will be somewhat justified knowing you went the extra mile. C, if the fighters won't take an extra 2 days to signs, frack 'em. They're a dick.



So there's my reply to that. I respectfully call BS on just about everything you said.

The real reason I think card companies have athletes sign stickers is because they're azy.[/quote:2eire9sw]

That just inst true... Fact is, we have 100,000 blank stickers sitting here.. If a guy loses them, he can redo them.. If the cards get lost, its sayanorah as we cannot cost effectively reprint just one guy.... BG

 

[Leaf]

[quote="Ty Hope":3cld3fqt]Just out of curiosity, how is it easier to send athletes stickers instead of cards? I know that stickers are useful for companies because they can be used again and again in the future, but why for one product? Surely the higher shipping costs for cards over stickers cant be the reason?

Stickers 99% of the time look like ass. Even the ones that DO fit well with the design don't change the most important fact (to me at least). They never touched the card. As a collector, this is a BIG deal to me.

Will I pick up a Fedor? Yes, because it is currently the only option. But I'll most likely be getting one box or even just some loose packs as opposed to the case I was kinda planning on when this product was announced months ago.

I REALLY like your company, and I like the direction that you are headed. The customer service is kick-ass. Stickers will turn me away from MANY products though.

The problem is:

We do a deal with X fighter (say Fedor). We spend forever negotiating, we finally get a deal done and he wants to sign TOMMORROW. Lead times fror setting up the forms, deisgn, photo acquisition,printing,etc is 4-6 weeks. He can sign stickers NOW. We have had guys pass on deals unless he could do them RIGHT NOW. Many guys dont want to do deals and wait months to sign. Problem is, until they sign their deal, we cannot design and print the cards.


Now, with deals in place, we can print knowing we have right to more autographs at $x price.
In addition, sending cards to personalities often results in lost cards, damages, missed autos,smears,etc that are not common with stickers.
These raise our cost and in turn raise your cost.
The worst scenario is the fighter (or UPS) loses the cards after they are signed. This would be a terrible reason to have a huge name missing from a set.

Hope all these thoughts help.
BG

Doesn't really help at all to be honest.

UPS can lose stickers just as easy as they can lose cards, they you're SOL too. And those stickers could end up on anything.

AND I thought baseball card companies always had representatives there to witness the signings? Could be Vladimir Finklestine signing these stickers for all you know then. That's great if you don't mind having forged autographes in your product you're going to probably be charging out of the ass for because there's like 8 hits a box, which will keep me from buying any before they are even released.

And about not being able to print the cards until they sign. Okay, I'd buy this if it were coming from a phone rep who's told what to say to be a buffer, but not the owner who calls all the shots. Okay, you can't print them, BUT if you're in serious negotiations, what's wrong with having them ready to print the minute they sign so they can be in the printing process as soon as they sign and be ready to be mailed out the next morning.

AND you're the one in negotiations with the athlete, so if I owned a company and really wanted on card autographs, I think it'd be pretty simple to let them know up front, say, the earliest we could do the signing is X days after the contract is signed so we have the assurance that the cards will be printed and ready to sign. A, you'll have on card auto's in your product, which will make the fans happy. B, the outrageous prices will be somewhat justified knowing you went the extra mile. C, if the fighters won't take an extra 2 days to signs, frack 'em. They're a dick.



So there's my reply to that. I respectfully call BS on just about everything you said.

The real reason I think card companies have athletes sign stickers is because they're azy.[/quote:3cld3fqt]

Also, all cards are printed at once... It is not like we can print each fighter as we sign them... I wish it was that easy... BG

 

[Leaf]

No one said stickers are ideal, but a Fedor autograph is still a quality pull.

In regards to production, from print to delivery depending on the finish, paper and quantity, it's closer to a week instead of one day.

That said, the obvious solution would be to print the cards with a guy like Fedor before the negotiations are finalized, assuming all goes well with the contract, cards are ready. If the negotiations go nowhere...destroy the cards. Then of course you have possible leaked cards, enormous hobby buzz, etc. The problem with this scenario is that if the negotiations hit a wall, you now have produced (but not distributed) a card featuring someone you do not have the rights to produce and therefore can deal with some ugly potential lawsuits.

It seems like a guy like Fedor would be the extreme situation because he seems notoriously tough to negotiate anything with.

I can see both sides of the debate and each way can lead to problems. Hard signed cards with damage often get sent back for replacement and the company is out the autograph expense on the card, sticker cards are...well..sticker autographs. And in both cases, lost autographs are lost autographs - on-card or not.

The only problem with preprinting is that the fighter has image right approval, so he has to approve the image before we print.
Catch 22. Sucks for everyone, but its what we have... BG

 

[matchpenalty]

Love all the people trying to run your business BG. If it were so easy as some think, then you would do it that way.

Are you still waiting on anybody to still sign? or is everything ready to go

 

[bassprokvd]

I must say, Lay off BG. You dont see topps,ud,panini or any other company on here willing to be racked over the coals about their products. Yeah sticker autos suck but would you rather have NO Fedor cert. auto or a sticker cert. auto of his. With those options Id take sticker anyday.

 

[Ty Hope]

I hope I didnt come across as bad mouthing BG in any way. As I have posted, I like Razor / Leaf and have been recently purchasing their non-sports products.

Just trying to help them improve with some of my opinions.

Personally, I can't wait for an on-card mma set. It will be a first (other than a handful of cards like in A&G or Sportkings).

 

[Viking4Alpha]

No Sakuraba autos

 

[Leaf]

Love all the people trying to run your business BG. If it were so easy as some think, then you would do it that way.

Are you still waiting on anybody to still sign? or is everything ready to go

Waiting for 2 fighters only.. thats it... Should havwe this week,....

2 guys have been removed from the autograph checklist Filho and Leites (sorry fro any inconvenience)

BG

 

[matchpenalty]

Excited to see Sapp auto. I think this might be his first cert.

 

[Ty Hope]

Excited to see Sapp auto. I think this might be his first cert.

Nope! I've had this for a few years. BIG Sapp fan.