Leaf Ali--The way NOT to instill confidence in this Buyer

[George_Calfas]

After busting a case I would like to offer my personal insights on this product. It was great fun and gave me cause to call an old acquaintance that is employed by one of the Players Associations.

Nice base set, low case run should keep the Print run low......unless sets are sold by Leaf at a later time.

Event Worn items, pretty cool. Looks like Rob, trunks, and gloves. For what it is worth the "white" swatches seems to be in shorter supply.
Nothing in the case with a PR less than 20.

Autos, best was Rourke and Trump......Rourke selling $50-60 and Trump $75 +/-. I think both will be in short supply and prices might raise a bit.
Nothing in the case with a PR less than 25.

Fight Worn, Ali Auto/Cut, Patch, Gold Autos......None in my case.

My cause for concern is the following:
A collector here received an awesome TTM last week, the same time Ali hit collectors hands. This TTM was identical to the card inserted and autographed for the boxed out product (see below). By no means do I begrudge the collector and his receipt of a cool TTM however this devalues the product. The person signing the product might want to keep some of their cards. Iimage if Topps allowed Harper or Strasburg to keep some of their cards after a signing and these kept cards starting finding their way into collectors hands, this place would erupt. Bob Foster might not be a big name in the product but it is the principle and this card and those to follow are nothing more than a backdoored product.....at least the TTM was personalized.

Below is an image for "Quality Control", nice start of a signature then a restart below the line on the card.....maybe stickers would have been better. Also, anyone notice that Lyle's cards are signed both Ronald and Ron and the Mickey Rourke seemed to get bored during his signing.

I have always supported ventures of companies attempting to give the collectors something other than Topps.......and while Leaf Football looks good I will not be purchasing this companies products for a while.

This can be moved, but I thought with the Leaf Ali Craze...

Alright, so I sent to Bob Foster not too long ago after watching Mike (from the Autograph Network) get Bob Foster to sign some stuff. I thought it would be cool to send to him, so I only sent 2 index cards to him last week, with a nice letter.

Well, it was Bob Foster. I had sent to him before the mass breaks on FCB, so I didn't know he was in the checklist.... and this bad boy arrived with my index cards:

I don't know what to say, except he will be getting a Thank You letter from me in the near future.

I know this is the baseball board, and I know this is a boxing TTM, but I noticed that all the Leaf Ali threads were in the baseball boards. No, I won't give you the address, or what I said in the letter.

From a case

.....and this is one #/25, Thanks!

I know these are on the person signing the card.

 

[Jastermereel]

I went to college with the brother of a current MLB Superstar. He would bring me tons of certified auto's of his brother that he was allowed to keep from his signings. He had me sell them for him on eBay.

Just saying, this isn't the first time signers have kept some of their cards.

 

[Ty Hope]

Not cool with the back-doored cards. Not cool at all.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

There you go again, going off half cocked and jumping to conclusions, making false accusations.



4 words: Phil Hughes Red Refractor



It happens all the time. Players get their cards. Sometimes they give them out. Ever think that this guy was thrilled to get someone requesting his autograph, and he wanted to send out a card with his autograph on it? Maybe Brian advised the players to only send them out if they were personalized. You don't know. Before you point fingers, get all of the facts!


Don't buy Leaf products. I'm sure Brian will still be able to put food on his table.

 

[Ty Hope]

"Maybe stickers would have been better."

George you crack me up! :lol:

 

[RITM]

Not a new occurence. I called a friend when I noticed that he had an autographed card in a set. He talked to me about the process and said he still had some unsigned cards that the company told him to do with as he pleased. He asked if I wanted one and signed it in the ink color of the rarest print run.

 

[vwnut13]

~ EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE ARE 100% BRIAN GRAY'S FAULT GET HIM!!! ~

 

[Joshua.Roundtree]

There you go again, going off half cocked and jumping to conclusions, making false accusations.



4 words: Phil Hughes Red Refractor



It happens all the time. Players get their cards. Sometimes they give them out. Ever think that this guy was thrilled to get someone requesting his autograph, and he wanted to send out a card with his autograph on it? Maybe Brian advised the players to only send them out if they were personalized. You don't know. Before you point fingers, get all of the facts!


Don't buy Leaf products. I'm sure Brian will still be able to put food on his table.

I love how [1] example of this happening makes you comment 'It happens all the time' Really? So one card that was kept by a player (and it was the duplicate Red Ref Auto) in 2004 means it happens all the time huh. Nice conclusion. And then you post 'get all the facts', classic, maybe you should do the same.

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

I don't know the real story here, but if fighters, etc. were allowed to keep a percentage for their own, I don't view this as "backdoored" any more than I would have viewed players receiving an 800ct box of their Topps cards back in the day.

Does it muddy the waters? Possibly. Specifically if cards are surfacing without a personalization, but again, not backdooring in my opinion. There may also have been a clause stating that all of the personal collection cards must be personalized if they are distributed.

As for the quality control of the Lyle autograph, I have a couple 2009/10 Upper Deck USA Q&A cards that have a word crossed out, and then rewritten below. I view them more as oddball variations than a lack of QC. Mickey Rourke's signature variation is a shame...but again, you can only get what you get from them.

I do know for certain that during the Ali signings that constant motivation was needed for Ali to really try hard for a good signature. His case is different, but still...you can't force anyone's hand...literally and figuratively.

 

[Ty Hope]

If it happens all the time or not is not the issue. It should NOT happen at all, and companies should not allow it. If athletes want some cards to keep of their own, they should be stamped or something to clearly mark them.

 

[TBTwinsFan]

(I don't mean to sound defensive)

The only reason I posted the card was because I had assumed that since Foster is a boxer, he doesn't have many cards. Because of that, I had then assumed that since he only had an auto'd card and no base that Brian printed up an extra 10-20 for him to keep.

I also kept thinking that when I, out of about 3-4 who got theirs back around the same time as me, had NOT gotten an auto'd card. I kept thinking that, because of the content of my letter, he sent one from his "personal collection."

If I would have known it was a backdoor, I wouldn't have posted the card, and kept the other 2 to the TTM board.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

[quote="Jeff N.":mdvdd5h6]There you go again, going off half cocked and jumping to conclusions, making false accusations.



4 words: Phil Hughes Red Refractor



It happens all the time. Players get their cards. Sometimes they give them out. Ever think that this guy was thrilled to get someone requesting his autograph, and he wanted to send out a card with his autograph on it? Maybe Brian advised the players to only send them out if they were personalized. You don't know. Before you point fingers, get all of the facts!


Don't buy Leaf products. I'm sure Brian will still be able to put food on his table.

I love how [1] example of this happening makes you comment 'It happens all the time' Really? So one card that was kept by a player (and it was the duplicate Red Ref Auto) in 2004 means it happens all the time huh. Nice conclusion. And then you post 'get all the facts', classic, maybe you should do the same.[/quote:mdvdd5h6]

It's common knowledge that players keep their cards. Read every other post in this thread. I have spent quite a bit of time with one particular player over the past few weeks and discussed his cards with him; Topps sent him hundreds of his cards, including his autographed Chrome and Finest ones.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

(I don't mean to sound defensive)

The only reason I posted the card was because I had assumed that since Foster is a boxer, he doesn't have many cards. Because of that, I had then assumed that since he only had an auto'd card and no base that Brian printed up an extra 10-20 for him to keep.

I also kept thinking that when I, out of about 3-4 who got theirs back around the same time as me, had NOT gotten an auto'd card. I kept thinking that, because of the content of my letter, he sent one from his "personal collection."

If I would have known it was a backdoor, I wouldn't have posted the card, and kept the other 2 to the TTM board.

Your first two paragraphs make perfect sense. THe last paragrah makes no sense. How is this a "back door"?

 

[Ty Hope]

Backdoored or not, it shouldn't happen. Especially if it throws off an announced print run. If Topps or Leaf or any other company did this but had some type of foil stamp to clearly mark them as non-pack inserted (or some other wording), I would have no problem. Wouldn't be hard for them to do.

 

[TBTwinsFan]

(I don't mean to sound defensive)

The only reason I posted the card was because I had assumed that since Foster is a boxer, he doesn't have many cards. Because of that, I had then assumed that since he only had an auto'd card and no base that Brian printed up an extra 10-20 for him to keep.

I also kept thinking that when I, out of about 3-4 who got theirs back around the same time as me, had NOT gotten an auto'd card. I kept thinking that, because of the content of my letter, he sent one from his "personal collection."

If I would have known it was a backdoor, I wouldn't have posted the card, and kept the other 2 to the TTM board.

Your first two paragraphs make perfect sense. THe last paragrah makes no sense. How is this a "back door"?

Not cool with the back-doored cards. Not cool at all.

I was just going by this post. I am no expert with the definition of "back-door'd" cards and I try to stay out of that area. I had assumed since he walked out with it, if he did, then it wasn't released and became a "back door"

I am guessing by your post that "back door" has more of a connection to a company, rather than an athlete/personality

 

[Ty Hope]

(I don't mean to sound defensive)

The only reason I posted the card was because I had assumed that since Foster is a boxer, he doesn't have many cards. Because of that, I had then assumed that since he only had an auto'd card and no base that Brian printed up an extra 10-20 for him to keep.

I also kept thinking that when I, out of about 3-4 who got theirs back around the same time as me, had NOT gotten an auto'd card. I kept thinking that, because of the content of my letter, he sent one from his "personal collection."

If I would have known it was a backdoor, I wouldn't have posted the card, and kept the other 2 to the TTM board.

Your first two paragraphs make perfect sense. THe last paragrah makes no sense. How is this a "back door"?

[quote="Ty Hope":1drrt2ot]Not cool with the back-doored cards. Not cool at all.

I was just going by this post. I am no expert with the definition of "back-door'd" cards and I try to stay out of that area. I had assumed since he walked out with it, if he did, then it wasn't released and became a "back door"

I am guessing by your post that "back door" has more of a connection to a company, rather than an athlete/personality[/quote:1drrt2ot]


You did nothing wrong at all man. It's a great TTM success. Maybe backdoored is the wrong wording. Its 3:00 AM here and I'm half asleep...lol It just seems dishonest that a company wouldn't pack out all the autos. If they want to give some to the athletes, that is fine. They should just be different from the pack inserted ones in some way. That's my opinion at least.

 

[TBTwinsFan]

[quote="Jeff N.":1uvubbr4]

(I don't mean to sound defensive)

The only reason I posted the card was because I had assumed that since Foster is a boxer, he doesn't have many cards. Because of that, I had then assumed that since he only had an auto'd card and no base that Brian printed up an extra 10-20 for him to keep.

I also kept thinking that when I, out of about 3-4 who got theirs back around the same time as me, had NOT gotten an auto'd card. I kept thinking that, because of the content of my letter, he sent one from his "personal collection."

If I would have known it was a backdoor, I wouldn't have posted the card, and kept the other 2 to the TTM board.

Your first two paragraphs make perfect sense. THe last paragrah makes no sense. How is this a "back door"?

[quote="Ty Hope":1uvubbr4]Not cool with the back-doored cards. Not cool at all.

I was just going by this post. I am no expert with the definition of "back-door'd" cards and I try to stay out of that area. I had assumed since he walked out with it, if he did, then it wasn't released and became a "back door"

I am guessing by your post that "back door" has more of a connection to a company, rather than an athlete/personality[/quote:1uvubbr4]


You did nothing wrong at all man. It's a great TTM success. Maybe backdoored is the wrong wording. Its 3:00 AM here and I'm half asleep...lol It just seems dishonest that a company wouldn't pack out all the autos. If they want to give some to the athletes, that is fine. They should just be different from the pack inserted ones in some way. That's my opinion at least.[/quote:1uvubbr4]



Thanks!

I can see where it is dishonest to not pack out all the autos. IDK how payment works for auto signings, but they obviously get something for the auto, and then sneaking out with a couple to sell/give away seems kinda wrong.

 

[RL24]

I know this is a negative thought zone, but...


I think the Lyle auto is cool. He started out "Ronald D Lyle" and ended at "Ron Lyle". There may be a "Ron D Lyle" or a "Ronald Lyle" somewhere in between.

The awesome thing about your auto, it's clearly the very first one he sat down to sign. After he messed yours up, he learned a lesson and didn't mess the rest up. Yours is the only one like that, a true ebay 1/1.



The unnumbered Rourke has been selling for $50 on ebay. Seems like those were a couple of nice pulls!

 

[George_Calfas]

[quote="Jeff N.":1audyx46]

(I don't mean to sound defensive)

The only reason I posted the card was because I had assumed that since Foster is a boxer, he doesn't have many cards. Because of that, I had then assumed that since he only had an auto'd card and no base that Brian printed up an extra 10-20 for him to keep.

I also kept thinking that when I, out of about 3-4 who got theirs back around the same time as me, had NOT gotten an auto'd card. I kept thinking that, because of the content of my letter, he sent one from his "personal collection."

If I would have known it was a backdoor, I wouldn't have posted the card, and kept the other 2 to the TTM board.

Your first two paragraphs make perfect sense. THe last paragrah makes no sense. How is this a "back door"?

[quote="Ty Hope":1audyx46]Not cool with the back-doored cards. Not cool at all.

I was just going by this post. I am no expert with the definition of "back-door'd" cards and I try to stay out of that area. I had assumed since he walked out with it, if he did, then it wasn't released and became a "back door"

I am guessing by your post that "back door" has more of a connection to a company, rather than an athlete/personality

You did nothing wrong at all man. It's a great TTM success. Maybe backdoored is the wrong wording. Its 3:00 AM here and I'm half asleep...lol It just seems dishonest that a company wouldn't pack out all the autos. If they want to give some to the athletes, that is fine. They should just be different from the pack inserted ones in some way. That's my opinion at least.[/quote:1audyx46]



Thanks!

I can see where it is dishonest to not pack out all the autos. IDK how payment works for auto signings, but they obviously get something for the auto, and then sneaking out with a couple to sell/give away seems kinda wrong.[/quote:1audyx46]

Again, congrats to you, it is an amazing piece (with meaning) to have the fighter send you. You will probably keep this card, many TTM people do not all you have to do is search ginter auto on ebay and see how many TTM/IPs are for sale.

Backdoored was the wrong word, sorry. Maybe excess production or something else should have been used.

 

[RITM]

I do not think an inscribed TTM is going to make a dent in the market and I doubt the guy was allowed to keep the same number of unsigned copies as he signed for the contract. I am sure he had extras in case he screwed up some copies or to have some extras to give out to close friends and family.

TB, you have nothing to apologize for.