Leaf Ali--The way NOT to instill confidence in this Buyer

[George_Calfas]

Thanks for the replies about this with other athletes and card companies. This concerns me across the board and will make me reconsider all of my future purchases. If Leaf/Topps/Panini/Etc claim there are only "X" amount of a given card, say a number refractor auto, there should be that number plus a limited number for replacements and the rest destroyed; anything less is derogatory to the hobby.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

I do not think an inscribed TTM is going to make a dent in the market and I doubt the guy was allowed to keep the same number of unsigned copies as he signed for the contract. I am sure he had extras in case he screwed up some copies or to have some extras to give out to close friends and family.

TB, you have nothing to apologize for.

Yeah, the TTM isn't going to make any difference in the grand scheme of things. TTM and pack-issued auto'ed cards will always be at odds with each other to an extent...what matters most is the card the auto is on.

 

[matchpenalty]

Love Ron Lyle variations. I wish more players did it. Was awesome when Neshek made different ones on his Topps stickers. Would be great if players signed full names and sometimes added middle initials and used both blue and black. BORING when ever single auto is always the same.
People will probably pay more for better looking MR autos.
Also I would guess most all players get to keep some of the cert cards they get sent to sign as a perk. Or just do anyways. I know it's happened in autographics where I think McGrady and someone else kept most of cards and gave them out themeselves. Also remember people getting Donruss SIGNATURE cert auto cards ttm as well back in late 90's.

 

[George_Calfas]

Also I would guess most all players get to keep some of the cert cards they get sent to sign as a perk. Or just do anyways. I know it's happened in autographics where I think McGrady and someone else kept most of cards and gave them out themeselves. Also remember people getting Donruss SIGNATURE cert auto cards ttm as well back in late 90's.

I guess my real question/concern......Is this an acceptable practice? What does this do to the overall market value?

 

[Bob Loblaw]

(I don't mean to sound defensive)

The only reason I posted the card was because I had assumed that since Foster is a boxer, he doesn't have many cards. Because of that, I had then assumed that since he only had an auto'd card and no base that Brian printed up an extra 10-20 for him to keep.

I also kept thinking that when I, out of about 3-4 who got theirs back around the same time as me, had NOT gotten an auto'd card. I kept thinking that, because of the content of my letter, he sent one from his "personal collection."

If I would have known it was a backdoor, I wouldn't have posted the card, and kept the other 2 to the TTM board.

Your first two paragraphs make perfect sense. THe last paragrah makes no sense. How is this a "back door"?

[quote="Ty Hope":1eg5aatj]Not cool with the back-doored cards. Not cool at all.

I was just going by this post. I am no expert with the definition of "back-door'd" cards and I try to stay out of that area. I had assumed since he walked out with it, if he did, then it wasn't released and became a "back door"

I am guessing by your post that "back door" has more of a connection to a company, rather than an athlete/personality[/quote:1eg5aatj]

I certainly don't think you have anything to apologize for; I suspect what happened is what you wrote.

I equate backdooring to "employees taking cards they're not entitled to out of the back door"...

 

[ideal0024]

Love Ron Lyle variations. I wish more players did it. Was awesome when Neshek made different ones on his Topps stickers. Would be great if players signed full names and sometimes added middle initials and used both blue and black. BORING when ever single auto is always the same.
People will probably pay more for better looking MR autos.
Also I would guess most all players get to keep some of the cert cards they get sent to sign as a perk. Or just do anyways. I know it's happened in autographics where I think McGrady and someone else kept most of cards and gave them out themeselves. Also remember people getting Donruss SIGNATURE cert auto cards ttm as well back in late 90's.

I'm sure most here remember 2004 Elite RC autos...the big chase was finding all of the different variations, different colors or notations or sigs.

As for players getting to keep cards, I've told this before, but about a week or two before '05 Topps Chrome was set to release I came across an ebay listing for a Glen Perkins Auto RC...curious about how the seller had it already, I sent a message asking. Turns out the seller was Glen's fiance...she said that Glen was allowed to keep a few cards for himself & they "were listing it as a joke" to see how much it would go for. She said there was no way to win it because they had set a super high reserve just in case. I replied back basically thanking her for letting me know & to tell Glen I was a big fan of his having seen him pitch in HS, college & looked forward to following his career with the Twins. A day later I got an email from Glen himself saying thanks for being a fan & if I wanted the card to send him my address & he would get it to me. Couple days later in the mail I recieved the card to which he added "To Dan: Best Wishes" over the sig that was on there already.

 

[Musial Collector]

Love Ron Lyle variations. I wish more players did it. Was awesome when Neshek made different ones on his Topps stickers. Would be great if players signed full names and sometimes added middle initials and used both blue and black. BORING when ever single auto is always the same.
People will probably pay more for better looking MR autos.
Also I would guess most all players get to keep some of the cert cards they get sent to sign as a perk. Or just do anyways. I know it's happened in autographics where I think McGrady and someone else kept most of cards and gave them out themeselves. Also remember people getting Donruss SIGNATURE cert auto cards ttm as well back in late 90's.

I'm sure most here remember 2004 Elite RC autos...the big chase was finding all of the different variations, different colors or notations or sigs.

As for players getting to keep cards, I've told this before, but about a week or two before '05 Topps Chrome was set to release I came across an ebay listing for a Glen Perkins Auto RC...curious about how the seller had it already, I sent a message asking. Turns out the seller was Glen's fiance...she said that Glen was allowed to keep a few cards for himself & they "were listing it as a joke" to see how much it would go for. She said there was no way to win it because they had set a super high reserve just in case. I replied back basically thanking her for letting me know & to tell Glen I was a big fan of his having seen him pitch in HS, college & looked forward to following his career with the Twins. A day later I got an email from Glen himself saying thanks for being a fan & if I wanted the card to send him my address & he would get it to me. Couple days later in the mail I recieved the card to which he added "To Dan: Best Wishes" over the sig that was on there already.

I call BS Dan, no way in HELL Glen Perkins would ever be this nice. :lol:

 

[matchpenalty]

I don't think players keeping a few cards for themselves has any effect on market. I would guess most get some to keep for family and friends. Unless you get rare occurance like McGrady autographics were player keeps them all. Anyone remember the other guy from that set that kept all his cards? Then value goes way up. Didn't this also happen with 97 UD Legends football, where I think Russ Francis and Mike Webster cert autos never made it in packs but still got out via the players themselves?

 

[TBTwinsFan]

Thank you for all the kind words.

I will def. hold this card personally valuable, and as most of you read in the OP's quote of my post, he is going to get a thank you letter for it.

Jeff N.: Thank you for telling me the meaning of a back door'd item It will help me in collecting.

 

[Captain Feathersword]

-snip-
I equate backdooring to "employees taking cards they're not entitled to out of the back door"...

I equate backdooring to something else entirely - not having anything to do with cards.

 

[matchpenalty]

anybody send out to Bob Foster and also get one of these cards? I will give him a try and see what happens.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

[quote="Jeff N.":47udn0up] -snip-
I equate backdooring to "employees taking cards they're not entitled to out of the back door"...

I equate backdooring to something else entirely - not having anything to do with cards.[/quote:47udn0up]

What you're into in your personal time should stay personal.

 

[TBTwinsFan]

anybody send out to Bob Foster and also get one of these cards? I will give him a try and see what happens.

If you have his addy, cool. If not, drop me a PM and I will grab it for you.

 

[stanthemanfan]

I think this also happened with 1996 Leaf Signature. I heard a Otis Nixon card sold on Ebay several years back, but none were inserted in packs. If anyone has one of these cards or a scan of it, I would like to see it.

 

[ideal0024]

Love Ron Lyle variations. I wish more players did it. Was awesome when Neshek made different ones on his Topps stickers. Would be great if players signed full names and sometimes added middle initials and used both blue and black. BORING when ever single auto is always the same.
People will probably pay more for better looking MR autos.
Also I would guess most all players get to keep some of the cert cards they get sent to sign as a perk. Or just do anyways. I know it's happened in autographics where I think McGrady and someone else kept most of cards and gave them out themeselves. Also remember people getting Donruss SIGNATURE cert auto cards ttm as well back in late 90's.

I'm sure most here remember 2004 Elite RC autos...the big chase was finding all of the different variations, different colors or notations or sigs.

As for players getting to keep cards, I've told this before, but about a week or two before '05 Topps Chrome was set to release I came across an ebay listing for a Glen Perkins Auto RC...curious about how the seller had it already, I sent a message asking. Turns out the seller was Glen's fiance...she said that Glen was allowed to keep a few cards for himself & they "were listing it as a joke" to see how much it would go for. She said there was no way to win it because they had set a super high reserve just in case. I replied back basically thanking her for letting me know & to tell Glen I was a big fan of his having seen him pitch in HS, college & looked forward to following his career with the Twins. A day later I got an email from Glen himself saying thanks for being a fan & if I wanted the card to send him my address & he would get it to me. Couple days later in the mail I recieved the card to which he added "To Dan: Best Wishes" over the sig that was on there already.

I call BS Dan, no way in HELL Glen Perkins would ever be this nice. :lol:

LOL....I could tell the story about how a couple weeks later he refused to sign something for me at TwinsFest.

 

[TBTwinsFan]

Glen was a lot nicer in his earlier days... then the Twinks sent him on down and when he came up he was an absolute jerk. I can't vouch for either part, but eh.

 

[Leaf]

George,
I just saw this thread. Please see my comments to your original post below:

Nice base set, low case run should keep the Print run low......unless sets are sold by Leaf at a later time.
This set has been fully distiburted and we have turned down offers by retail to offer a similar product at retail. What is out there is whats out there.


Event Worn items, pretty cool. Looks like Rob, trunks, and gloves. For what it is worth the "white" swatches seems to be in shorter supply. Nothing in the case with a PR less than 20.
This appears to be normal, which I know it would be nice to hit a /5. Normally though, if you do not get a fight worn or auto, you get an event worn with a PREMIUM swatch (multicolor,etc).


Autos, best was Rourke and Trump......Rourke selling $50-60 and Trump $75 +/-. I think both will be in short supply and prices might raise a bit. Nothing in the case with a PR less than 25.
This is exactly correct. You should recieve 2-3 premium fans which you did. Only 1/2 the cases have #/5.


Fight Worn, Ali Auto/Cut, Patch, Gold Autos......None in my case.
Unusual, but not staistically impossible.

My cause for concern is the following:
A collector here received an awesome TTM last week, the same time Ali hit collectors hands. This TTM was identical to the card inserted and autographed for the boxed out product (see below). By no means do I begrudge the collector and his receipt of a cool TTM however this devalues the product. The person signing the product might want to keep some of their cards. Iimage if Topps allowed Harper or Strasburg to keep some of their cards after a signing and these kept cards starting finding their way into collectors hands, this place would erupt. Bob Foster might not be a big name in the product but it is the principle and this card and those to follow are nothing more than a backdoored product.....at least the TTM was personalized.
George, you emailed me on this last week. As I answered then, Foster was allowed to keep 3 base autos. I have no clue why he gave one of these away, however he did. We have since been in contact with Bob and weve been assured this will not happen again. Nevertheless, you expressed concern and I immeidately investigated and dealt with it. If you dont think thais has ever happened with other comapnies' stuff, you are mistaken.


Below is an image for "Quality Control", nice start of a signature then a restart below the line on the card.....maybe stickers would have been better. Also, anyone notice that Lyle's cards are signed both Ronald and Ron and the Mickey Rourke seemed to get bored during his signing.
I am not sure we can be blamed for how rourke and Lyle choose to sign, just as Topps cannot be blamed for CVhris Johnson signing CJ. On the one Lyle restart, we gladly rpelace cards like that. All you have to do is send it to our customer service dept. Have you notified us of this card? I checked and was told you have not. How can I fix an issue I don't know about.


I have always supported ventures of companies attempting to give the collectors something other than Topps.......and while Leaf Football looks good I will not be purchasing this companies products for a while.
I am sorry you feel that way. I do have to question if you can be pleased at all given the immeidate response to your concerns and our dilligence in not issuing redemptions and using a majority on-card autographs. Hopefully, in reflection, you will see the great effort we have put into thisn product and maybe in time that reflection will yield a more positive result. Thanks for your support and I am happy replace the LYLE card if you are unhappy.

BG

 

[TBTwinsFan]

Brian, thank you for clearing this up for us (especially me).

As for the card, I can give you my word that I will never sell or trade it.

 

[George_Calfas]

BG,
Thanks for your reply. As I started the product was fun and the base set and other cards look great. They were well thought out and executed. As for my case, yeah I probably opened a dog, it happens right, that is the risk you take.

Yes, thank you for your response when I pm'd you last week. The answer you provided then is no less frustrating and I am using this public place to voice my opinions.

re Lyle: not my card.....see Ty Hope

re autos: completely agree with you, it is completely on the person signing the card which I addressed in the section above the image. Leaf/Topps/Panini/etc cant make people care about their signature. I would ask that you consider not including people such as Rourke in the future.

re "extra" autos: Obviously this is a problem universal to the hobby and does well beyond Leaf. I thought after the Topps law suit this would have gone away, guess I was sadly mistaken. Just because it happens with other companies/products does not make it right. The consumer should be considered; allowing extras on the market place erode consumer confidence.

I encourage Leaf and all other companies to publish print runs and destroy items of over production. Whether they leak into the market via athlete or back-door is wrong and hurts the hobby no minor the card. If a player ask for his own cards of the product make them something unique or include a "player collection" stamp on the back (see 2003 LCM and Clint Barmes).

Again I have always supported Razor and now Leaf. Again your football product looks GREAT. However at this time I will speak with my wallet and not purchase, in fact until I feel good about other companies items I will hold off on busting any new wax. I know my lack of purchasing will not affect Leaf or any other company in any way, however I will not allow myself to be apart of this current system. This is all I can do as a consumer.

BG, as always many thanks for always being willing to step up, correct situations, and talk to the hobbyist.

 

[George_Calfas]

George,
I just saw this thread. Please see my comments to your original post below:

Event Worn items, pretty cool. Looks like Rob, trunks, and gloves. For what it is worth the "white" swatches seems to be in shorter supply. Nothing in the case with a PR less than 20.
This appears to be normal, which I know it would be nice to hit a /5. Normally though, if you do not get a fight worn or auto, you get an event worn with a PREMIUM swatch (multicolor,etc).

guess I did get a bum case since I pulled no swatch......again fun to open.