Lee to Phillies

[markakis8]

Why don't you look at the playoff and regular season numbers for Cain...compare that to Lee, can you say Lee is overrated?

Every time you post, I literally think "you can't be this much of a homer/idiot" but you prove me wrong.

Matt Cain pitched 3, count it THREE, games in the postseason in ONE year. And yes, they were all amazing and dominating. He got scorching hot at the right time and help fuel the Giants to a World Series. Yay for him. He's not better than Cliff Lee.

In fact, Cliff Lee was 7-0 in postseason with a 1.25ish ERA before he played the Giants....in 7 games!

What's my point? You are letting one magical postseason and your nut-love for the Giants cloud your judgment. Matt Cain could very well pitch 3 games in 2011 postseason and lose all 3.

Matt Cain is underrated, we all know that. His W-L does not do him justice. But Cliff Lee is a better pitcher.

You are allowed to think Cain is the better pitcher, but it is just irritating b/c every one of your posts reeks of homerism.

 

[GiantsSuperCollector]

Why don't you look at the playoff and regular season numbers for Cain...compare that to Lee, can you say Lee is overrated?

Every time you post, I literally think "you can't be this much of a homer/idiot" but you prove me wrong.

Matt Cain pitched 3, count it THREE, games in the postseason in ONE year. And yes, they were all amazing and dominating. He got scorching hot at the right time and help fuel the Giants to a World Series. Yay for him. He's not better than Cliff Lee.

In fact, Cliff Lee was 7-0 in postseason with a 1.25ish ERA before he played the Giants....in 7 games!

What's my point? You are letting one magical postseason and your nut-love for the Giants cloud your judgment. Matt Cain could very well pitch 3 games in 2011 postseason and lose all 3.

Matt Cain is underrated, we all know that. His W-L does not do him justice. But Cliff Lee is a better pitcher.

You are allowed to think Cain is the better pitcher, but it is just irritating b/c every one of your posts reeks of homerism.

I was just saying the Cain is better than you give him credit never said he was better. I also stated Lee is overrated, that is true look at his stats.

 

[markakis8]

I was just saying the Cain is better than you give him credit never said he was better. I also stated Lee is overrated, that is true look at his stats.

What do you mean? I'm giving Cain all the credit he deserves! He's a great pitcher - there's no denying that! And he's vastly underrated and under-appreciated - much like Clayton Kershaw.

My point is Cain and Lee are not on the same level. Cliff Lee is a top-tier pitcher. Matt Cain is not (but he could be and he's certainly on the right path).

 

[GiantsSuperCollector]

I was just saying the Cain is better than you give him credit never said he was better. I also stated Lee is overrated, that is true look at his stats.

What do you mean? I'm giving Cain all the credit he deserves! He's a great pitcher - there's no denying that! And he's vastly underrated and under-appreciated - much like Clayton Kershaw.

My point is Cain and Lee are not on the same level. Cliff Lee is a top-tier pitcher. Matt Cain is not (but he could be and he's certainly on the right path).

Just wondering what does Cain need to do to be a top-tier pitcher?

 

[markakis8]

I was just saying the Cain is better than you give him credit never said he was better. I also stated Lee is overrated, that is true look at his stats.

What do you mean? I'm giving Cain all the credit he deserves! He's a great pitcher - there's no denying that! And he's vastly underrated and under-appreciated - much like Clayton Kershaw.

My point is Cain and Lee are not on the same level. Cliff Lee is a top-tier pitcher. Matt Cain is not (but he could be and he's certainly on the right path).

Just wondering what does Cain need to do to be a top-tier pitcher?

be like timmy, just flat out dominate all year, which he has yet to do. he always above-average and never the best.

 

[Lancemountain]

I was just saying the Cain is better than you give him credit never said he was better. I also stated Lee is overrated, that is true look at his stats.

What do you mean? I'm giving Cain all the credit he deserves! He's a great pitcher - there's no denying that! And he's vastly underrated and under-appreciated - much like Clayton Kershaw.

My point is Cain and Lee are not on the same level. Cliff Lee is a top-tier pitcher. Matt Cain is not (but he could be and he's certainly on the right path).

Just wondering what does Cain need to do to be a top-tier pitcher?

Seriously!

Why don't these people see that the Giants are the best team ever and every player on the team is better than everyone else in the Majors??

 

[GiantsSuperCollector]

I was just saying the Cain is better than you give him credit never said he was better. I also stated Lee is overrated, that is true look at his stats.

What do you mean? I'm giving Cain all the credit he deserves! He's a great pitcher - there's no denying that! And he's vastly underrated and under-appreciated - much like Clayton Kershaw.

My point is Cain and Lee are not on the same level. Cliff Lee is a top-tier pitcher. Matt Cain is not (but he could be and he's certainly on the right path).

Just wondering what does Cain need to do to be a top-tier pitcher?

be like timmy, just flat out dominate all year, which he has yet to do. he always above-average and never the best.

He did that in 09 with extremely little run support.

 

[scotty21690]

I was just saying the Cain is better than you give him credit never said he was better. I also stated Lee is overrated, that is true look at his stats.

What do you mean? I'm giving Cain all the credit he deserves! He's a great pitcher - there's no denying that! And he's vastly underrated and under-appreciated - much like Clayton Kershaw.

My point is Cain and Lee are not on the same level. Cliff Lee is a top-tier pitcher. Matt Cain is not (but he could be and he's certainly on the right path).

Just wondering what does Cain need to do to be a top-tier pitcher?

Seriously!

Why don't these people see that the Giants are the best team ever and every player on the team is better than everyone else in the Majors??

Now we're talkin!

 

[GiantsSuperCollector]

I was just saying the Cain is better than you give him credit never said he was better. I also stated Lee is overrated, that is true look at his stats.

What do you mean? I'm giving Cain all the credit he deserves! He's a great pitcher - there's no denying that! And he's vastly underrated and under-appreciated - much like Clayton Kershaw.

My point is Cain and Lee are not on the same level. Cliff Lee is a top-tier pitcher. Matt Cain is not (but he could be and he's certainly on the right path).

Just wondering what does Cain need to do to be a top-tier pitcher?

Seriously!

Why don't these people see that the Giants are the best team ever and every player on the team is better than everyone else in the Majors??

They are? Never knew that, thanks for that info.

 

[markakis8]

be like timmy, just flat out dominate all year, which he has yet to do. he always above-average and never the best.

He did that in 09 with extremely little run support.

no, no he didnt. ::facepalm::

he was 9th in the NL (not MLB, NL) in WHIP, 8th in WAR for pitchers, 9th in ERA, didn't crack the top 10 in K's, and 10th in H/9..

wasn't close to dominating and definitely wasn't even close to being the best.

 

[GiantsSuperCollector]

The Phillies blew every ones mind with the sneaky signing of Cliff Lee. The mystery team that only seems to exist in agents minds was actually real and made the big splash.

With the signing comes the overreaction. The Phillies are going to be unstoppable and all that. Well it is just talk, remember that they lost Jayson Werth who was a big part of their offense and are looking to shop Joe Blanton now.

Dave Cameron of fangraphs put it together and figured out how good the 2011 Phillies should be. Here is what he came up with. He figured +21 wins for the starting pitching another +4 wins for the bullpen and the following for the lineup:

Carlos Ruiz: +2.5 WAR
Ryan Howard: +3.0 WAR
Chase Utley: +6.0 WAR
Jimmy Rollins: +3.5 WAR
Placido Polanco: +2.5 WAR
Raul Ibanez: +1.5 WAR
Shane Victorino: +3.0 WAR
Domonic Brown: +2.0 WAR

Throw in another win off the bench and you get +25 from the pitchers and +25 for the lineup and when added to the replacement base of 48 wins it is a 98 win team.
Now before you crawl into your hole never to be seen again let's check the Giants.

First up is the pichers:

Tim Lincecum: +6.5 WAR
Matt Cain: +4.5 WAR
Jonathan Sanchez: +3.5 WAR
Madison Bumgarner: +3.5 WAR
Barry Zito: +2 (Very Expensive) WAR
Bullpen (which one of the best in baseball and last year was worth 6.2 WAR) +5 WAR

Now the lineup:

Buster Posey: +5.5 WAR
Aubrey Huff: +3 WAR
Freddy Sanchez: +2 WAR
Pablo Sandoval: +3.5 WAR
Miguel Tejada: +1.5 WAR
Pat Burrell: +1.5 WAR
Andres Torres: +4 WAR
Cody Ross: +2 WAR
Bench: +2 WAR

If you add it all together and you get the same 50 WAR added to the 48 of the replacement level and the Giants have the same potential to get to 98 wins next year too.

The east coast media are salivating over this deal but the National League title will still have to come through San Francisco.

 

[ronfromfresno]

be like timmy, just flat out dominate all year, which he has yet to do. he always above-average and never the best.

He did that in 09 with extremely little run support.

no, no he didnt. ::facepalm::

he was 9th in the NL (not MLB, NL) in WHIP, 8th in WAR for pitchers, 9th in ERA, didn't crack the top 10 in K's, and 10th in H/9..

wasn't close to dominating and definitely wasn't even close to being the best.

What is the comparison to Lee's stats over the same time in his career? Just wondering, Lee can be very average and as you pointed out anyone can and will lose in the post season, 0-2 6+ ERA vs SF for Lee. So I was wondering what the comparison is I think they're pretty even at this point.

 

[Lancemountain]

I was just saying the Cain is better than you give him credit never said he was better. I also stated Lee is overrated, that is true look at his stats.

What do you mean? I'm giving Cain all the credit he deserves! He's a great pitcher - there's no denying that! And he's vastly underrated and under-appreciated - much like Clayton Kershaw.

My point is Cain and Lee are not on the same level. Cliff Lee is a top-tier pitcher. Matt Cain is not (but he could be and he's certainly on the right path).

Just wondering what does Cain need to do to be a top-tier pitcher?

Seriously!

Why don't these people see that the Giants are the best team ever and every player on the team is better than everyone else in the Majors??

They are? Never knew that, thanks for that info.

Don't sell your team short. Stamp your WS ticket NOW~!

 

[darocker80]

I think Oswalt is on the decline and Sanchez on the incline, thus my decision...in which I still would prefer Oswalt.

Oswalt is getting older and was on a decline of his career. Who knows if he can repeat last season. Sanchez I feel has matured and finally has figured out his tools to succeed. That splitter/change has done wonders.

The Phillies are going to win by a large margin in the NL East and most likely will end up in the NLCS, possibly WS. Anything can happen so you cannot write anything down on paper (including my Giants in the post season again).

Remember that 08 season (i believe) and the Detroit Tigers. The tigers got Miguel Cabrera, Pudge Rodriguez, Edgar Renteria (after a Silver slugger season), Magglio Ordonez, etc etc etc and they fell way short of the post season.

Like I said earlier the phillies are going to have a lot of success and am eager to see how my Giants match up to them.

 

[GiantsSuperCollector]

I think Oswalt is on the decline and Sanchez on the incline, thus my decision...in which I still would prefer Oswalt.

Oswalt is getting older and was on a decline of his career. Who knows if he can repeat last season. Sanchez I feel has matured and finally has figured out his tools to succeed. That splitter/change has done wonders.

Yes that is true, Sanchez's success will depend on his mentality. My other post showed that the Giants are in a position to do just as well as the Phillies without Brandon Belt, let's see how he does and if he can make a Posey impact.

 

[padremurph]

Phillies>Giants in 2011. Plain and simple.

 

[elmalo]

Phillies>Giants in 2011. Plain and simple.

This is why they play the games.

 

[elmalo]

The Phillies blew every ones mind with the sneaky signing of Cliff Lee. The mystery team that only seems to exist in agents minds was actually real and made the big splash.

With the signing comes the overreaction. The Phillies are going to be unstoppable and all that. Well it is just talk, remember that they lost Jayson Werth who was a big part of their offense and are looking to shop Joe Blanton now.

Dave Cameron of fangraphs put it together and figured out how good the 2011 Phillies should be. Here is what he came up with. He figured +21 wins for the starting pitching another +4 wins for the bullpen and the following for the lineup:

Carlos Ruiz: +2.5 WAR
Ryan Howard: +3.0 WAR
Chase Utley: +6.0 WAR
Jimmy Rollins: +3.5 WAR
Placido Polanco: +2.5 WAR
Raul Ibanez: +1.5 WAR
Shane Victorino: +3.0 WAR
Domonic Brown: +2.0 WAR

Throw in another win off the bench and you get +25 from the pitchers and +25 for the lineup and when added to the replacement base of 48 wins it is a 98 win team.
Now before you crawl into your hole never to be seen again let's check the Giants.

First up is the pichers:

Tim Lincecum: +6.5 WAR
Matt Cain: +4.5 WAR
Jonathan Sanchez: +3.5 WAR
Madison Bumgarner: +3.5 WAR
Barry Zito: +2 (Very Expensive) WAR
Bullpen (which one of the best in baseball and last year was worth 6.2 WAR) +5 WAR

Now the lineup:

Buster Posey: +5.5 WAR
Aubrey Huff: +3 WAR
Freddy Sanchez: +2 WAR
Pablo Sandoval: +3.5 WAR
Miguel Tejada: +1.5 WAR
Pat Burrell: +1.5 WAR
Andres Torres: +4 WAR
Cody Ross: +2 WAR
Bench: +2 WAR

If you add it all together and you get the same 50 WAR added to the 48 of the replacement level and the Giants have the same potential to get to 98 wins next year too.

The east coast media are salivating over this deal but the National League title will still have to come through San Francisco.

That would be great if WAR meant anything.

 

[nosterbor]

:lol:



Who knew Giants fans would be so obnoxious?

they are turning into Yankees fans part 2!

 

[Bob Loblaw]

:lol:



Who knew Giants fans would be so obnoxious?

they are turning into Yankees fans part 2!

I don't remember being tihs obnoxious in December of 2008.

You won the World Series. Celebrate it. Buy lots of SF WS swag for Xmas. Enjoy it. Don't put others down.

See ya next year.