Michael Vick?

[RITM]

he is only sorry for being caught, not for what he did.

You are not sure of that, nor is it your right to judge him.

 

[tudorfan]

Fine, as long as this eye-for-an-eye punishment can be extended to other aspects of life. For example, the next time Burge, Moser, or Susor trims a card, we should trim off one of their fingers

IF those guys trim cards are they inflicting physical pain? No, an eye for an eye would be as I stated in my first post. BTW, I hear Susor is going to trial soon for his escapades but again, he didn't torture animals, he allegedly tortured cards. Just a bit of a difference but don't let the facts get in the way

That's interesting. I know of him from the CU boards and I still get spam from him even though I've only bought one card from him years ago. Is it a civil or criminal trial?

 

[HEAVYHITTER]

Hey, What's going on around hur?

 

[JoshHamilton]

Hey, What's going on around hur?

Your quarterback sexually assaults women

 

[HEAVYHITTER]

Hey, What's going on around hur?

Your quarterback sexually assaults women

Really? The only thing there is proof of is 2 superbowl rings, winner or last weeks offensive player of the week and a better QB rating than Peyton Manning this season... Wooof.

 

[RITM]

Why we gotta go picking on Peyton?

 

[Big Mac McGwire]

Vick commited a crime


Vick was tried, convicted, and sentenced.

He then served his time in a standard prison while missing critical time in the life of a NFL football player.


I don't see what the issue is with Vick, now that he has served his time. I'm not saying that I think he's a great person, but I do think he should be allowed to have his occupation back.

I will agree with you on this Leon, it's great to see you over here. Your net54 boards are a wonderful community, and anyone who collects vintage and pre war is missing out if they don't read your forums.

Right on. I love dogs. But they guy did the time and in the process lost all his money. From what i have read because of all the legal fees etc., he is still millions in debt.

In reality he served his time, paid out the ***** in terms of monetary stability. He now has gone back to work. As much as you dislike the guy did pay his debt to society in the eyes of the judge and jury who handed him his sentance.

 

[pigskincardboard]

Vick commited a crime


Vick was tried, convicted, and sentenced.

He then served his time in a standard prison while missing critical time in the life of a NFL football player.


I don't see what the issue is with Vick, now that he has served his time. I'm not saying that I think he's a great person, but I do think he should be allowed to have his occupation back.

I will agree with you on this Leon, it's great to see you over here. Your net54 boards are a wonderful community, and anyone who collects vintage and pre war is missing out if they don't read your forums.

Right on. I love dogs. But they guy did the time and in the process lost all his money. From what i have read because of all the legal fees etc., he is still millions in debt.

In reality he served his time, paid out the ***** in terms of monetary stability. He now has gone back to work. As much as you dislike the guy did pay his debt to society in the eyes of the judge and jury who handed him his sentance.

I'm utterly confused by people's anger over Michael Vick. First, he's a complete and utter sleezeball between the pot, ******, and dogs.

Now, after that, he was found guilty and served his time. What is the problem here? Do you believe the NFL should not allow criminals in its ranks? A lot of jobs do criminal background checks and make sure you're bonded; is that your problem w/ the NFL?

Or are you upset that he didn't serve more time? At which point, I'd ask what do you equate federal inter-state dog-fighting, smuggling, etc crimes with? We all love dogs, but there are many crimes far worse than killing one. I think drunkenly raping a chick is far worse than killing 300 dogs for sport.

What exactly should killing dogs be equated with sentence wise?

I just find it unbelievable that people could mistrust the system so much. The point of prison is to take away stuff that you like (freedom & money) so that you'll realize your mistakes and come out a better person. If you don't think that prison works, how exactly do you suggest rehabilitating anyone?

Guy is a sleezeball. You do not have to like him. If you are upset that so many people are rallying behind an athlete simply because he's a great athlete, that is nothing new. Most people are trash anyways. America loves redemption and resurrection; it's part of the fabric of american society.

 

[IndyManning18]

Do I eat meat? Yes, I love it. I do understand the bit of hypocrisy too. That being said they don't torture family pets. I doubt the cows are made to fight and if they lose they are hung by their feet, upside down in water, until they drown. I guess you are ok with that? No problem, it's America.

I'm not okay with that. I love dogs. I remember seeing an undercover video at a chicken slaughter house where the chickens were kicked around and "tortured". Chickens that eventually became chicken nuggets or slapped with the Colonels famous recipe. That was my reference. Maybe it had no value to the conversation. All I know is that Michael Vick lost everything, was convicted for his crimes, paid the time in prison an is now getting a second chance. If he was working in a factory making $9.00 an hour, would that be better for you?

 

[gt2590]

No one has to like it, especially 'cuz of the nature of the crimes,

But the man did 18 months at Federal Prison. He "lost" $20+ million, alot of future endorsements and will never get some people's respect back.

He has said all the correct things about his mistakes and has followed thru on His committments to animal groups, community service, etc. He has been a much better teammate than in Atlanta and has converted over alot of non-believers in the Philly area, and not just with his improved play.

Now, if he does it again all the bets of public opinion are off...

 

[hive17]

Look, Vick is a bad person. He clearly has something wrong with him that would allow him to do that to dogs.

He's playing football again, there's nothing that any of us can do about it. I think it sucks. I also think it's another ********* celebrity cop-out sentence. If this were any other poor schmuck, especially a black guy from the south, he sure as hell wouldn't be back to full speed inside of 2 years post-prison.

I don't get the arguement: "he served his time, if you have an issue, blame the system/NFL/jury/laws/celebrity".

Yeah, that's right, blame these co-horts. But Micheal Vick will ALWAYS be the one to blame for these crimes and the way EVERYTHING went down.

Bottom line, if he never played football again, I wouldn't care. But he is, and some people think it's ******. Who cares?

 

[Anthony K.]

I expressed an opinion of Mike Vick in another thread but a mod deleted it, saying it was the wrong thread. No worries. My apology for that. Maybe it's ok to speak about it here? Personally, I am all for giving folks a second chance......As for Vick he I feel he was only sorry he got caught while torturing the dogs. I think he should be given a second chance right after-

1. He is hung by his feet, with his head in the water, until he drowns- as he did to the dogs.
2. He is electrocuted after each interception- as he did to the dogs...though their mistake was not winning fights and maiming other dogs.
3. He is taken by his feet and swung about, hitting his head on the cement until dead, as he did the dogs.

After those things are done, no worries. Play football all you want. If this gets deleted again, no problem. I just can't let animal abusers off so easy. Otherwise, I am a very forgiving person and almost always let bygones be bygones.

Maybe I am in the minority though and would love to hear other views.

You know, the culture you are born and raised into plays a large part of how you will develop as a person.

Vick was exposed to dog fighting at the ripe old age of 7 years old. Until he was caught, Vick was involved in or knew people involved in dog fighting. Now, you could argue that many people are able to adjust to "normal" life and not be influenced by the culture they grew up in but many, MANY people do not.

I in know way condone what Vick did (I am an animal lover my self), but I understand why he did it. If you think he wasn't taught to treat the animals that way, I'd be willing to bet you are wrong. If you think Vick is not sorry for what he has done, I'd gladly disagree with you there.

Just because YOU don't think he is sorry ONLY for being caught, doesn't mean he isn't sorry for the acts himself. To see the person, ne, the MAN Vick has become from before his incarceration to after his incarceration, you can notice a HUGE difference. He's more grounded, less arrogant. He responds to criticism better, helps with the community (outside of his court assigned community service), has become a very vocal spokesman against the things he did, the crimes he committed and expresses his regret over his actions time and time again.

Murderers get out of prison. Rapists get out of prison. People who look at, make and sell child *********** get out of prison. I put animal abuse well below all three of these, yet you act as if he came to your house and abused and murdered your dog.

Look at Vick for who he is NOW, not for who he WAS.

[/soapbox]

 

[hive17]

Look at Vick for who he is NOW, not for who he WAS.

[/soapbox]

No. I'm not going to. I don't think leon is going to. That's just our opinions. For all the crimes you mentioned that are far worse, there's plenty of people who are never forgiven by people for far less.

If someone cheats on someone, or has an affair, or leaves their family for someone else, that's not worse than killing and maiming dogs. But asking the people who were spurned to get passed it and "look at the person he is now" is never going to get much traction. Since we can all agree that the legal aspect of this has come and gone, we are only left with our personal opinions. I for one, would be happy to see Mike Vick pushing a broom at a Safeway, rather than making millions of dollars. But it ain't going to happen. I've gotten that far.

 

[leon]

Here is my last post (most likely) on this issue. Many folks on here, football fans I am sure, think Vick's apologies were sincere. I watched his taped, rehearsed apologies. To me, and this is only my opinion based on what I personally watched, I don't they were sincere and think he is not sorry for what he did, only sorry for getting caught. There are millions of others that feel the way I do too, albeit not on a very good football chat board, as this is. Ya'll are entitled to your opinion just as I am mine. I don't think he is a good role model and I don't think he should be playing football. He did pay a heavy penalty, and I am fine with that.

As far as giving people second chances, I am all for it. As a matter fact for the last 11 yrs (and counting) I have volunteered at the Dallas Salvation Army. I teach life skills to homeless veterans each week and if anyone needs second chances, they do. I was awarded the Dallas Cowboys Community Quarterback award in 2002 and got a certificate of appreciation from the Dallas Cowboys, in 2007, for the same type volunteering. I not only believe in second chances and teach them, I am living one myself...but I don't want to go into that too much. So yes, I believe in second chances. That being said I don't think, with what Vick did, he should be playing pro football. He could do other things to make a living and I wouldn't begrudge him that, but being a role model, no I don't think so. Again, this is all my opinion....I hope I am entitled to that...and no, I am not judging Vick (that has been done by a jury and/or judge), I am only offering my opinion on what I think. That is all. Kind regards and thanks again to Chris, for running a fine board. You guys are always welcome on my chat board, Net54baseball.com....even if we do disagree on this.

 

[PetestillRose]

My friend who lives in Washington DC seems to think Vick should get harsher penalties too. I'm not sayin it's anything but a coincidence...

 

[vwnut13]

My friend who lives in Washington DC seems to think Vick should get harsher penalties too. I'm not sayin it's anything but a coincidence...

My friend in Washington DC seems to think that Vick is the Holiest man to walk the Earth, oh wait, I'm not friends with Obama.

 

[JzWand]

You dont know Vick personally so really who are you to judge whether he is TRULY sorry for what he has done?

I am not saying I your 100% wrong, but your most definitely not 100% right either.

There are FAR worse POS's who have played in the NFL. Christian Peter, Leonard Little, Lawrence Phillips, Vance Johnson, Rae Carruth, the cowboys of the 90's, etc.

I think I read online somewhere that over 20% of the NFL's players have a criminal record.

Christian Peter, a multiple time sex offender, and Leonard Little who signed a $21 million contract AFTER killing a woman while DUI had much more of a negative impact on society than Vick. The difference? Vick is a exponentially better football player than anyone on the list hence all the negative backlash.

Next time, prior to creating a thread on a guy who killed animals, maybe write an essay on the personal impact that people like Little or Peter have on their HUMAN victims and post that here rather than this!

Regards!

PS. I love dogs as well. I have 2 myself. But they are just dogs and 10 million dogs IMO isnt worth the life of a 47 y/o wife and mother of a teenage son that Leonard Little killed

 

[hive17]

You dont know Vick personally so really who are you to judge whether he is TRULY sorry for what he has done?

I am not saying I your 100% wrong, but your most definitely not 100% right either.

There are FAR worse POS's who have played in the NFL. Christian Peter, Leonard Little, Lawrence Phillips, Vance Johnson, Rae Carruth, the cowboys of the 90's, etc.

I think I read online somewhere that over 20% of the NFL's players have a criminal record.

Christian Peter, a multiple time sex offender, and Leonard Little who signed a $21 million contract AFTER killing a woman while DUI had much more of a negative impact on society than Vick. The difference? Vick is a exponentially better football player than anyone on the list hence all the negative backlash.

Next time, prior to creating a thread on a guy who killed animals, maybe write an essay on the personal impact that people like Little or Peter have on their HUMAN victims and post that here rather than this!

Regards!

PS. I love dogs as well. I have 2 myself. But they are just dogs and 10 million dogs IMO isnt worth the life of a 47 y/o wife and mother of a teenage son that Leonard Little killed

How much football did the guys in your example play after what they did?

I don't even think Buress should have been hit with the punishment he was hit with. People aren't happy with the "escape" that Vick got for what he did. Accept it.

And no, Vick ranks right up there with Little, et al. You have to be a TERRIBLE person to do what he did. Raised wrong or otherwise, you're still a HUGE P.O.S.

 

[JzWand]

You dont know Vick personally so really who are you to judge whether he is TRULY sorry for what he has done?

I am not saying I your 100% wrong, but your most definitely not 100% right either.

There are FAR worse POS's who have played in the NFL. Christian Peter, Leonard Little, Lawrence Phillips, Vance Johnson, Rae Carruth, the cowboys of the 90's, etc.

I think I read online somewhere that over 20% of the NFL's players have a criminal record.

Christian Peter, a multiple time sex offender, and Leonard Little who signed a $21 million contract AFTER killing a woman while DUI had much more of a negative impact on society than Vick. The difference? Vick is a exponentially better football player than anyone on the list hence all the negative backlash.

Next time, prior to creating a thread on a guy who killed animals, maybe write an essay on the personal impact that people like Little or Peter have on their HUMAN victims and post that here rather than this!

Regards!

PS. I love dogs as well. I have 2 myself. But they are just dogs and 10 million dogs IMO isnt worth the life of a 47 y/o wife and mother of a teenage son that Leonard Little killed

How much football did the guys in your example play after what they did?

I don't even think Buress should have been hit with the punishment he was hit with. People aren't happy with the "escape" that Vick got for what he did. Accept it.

And no, Vick ranks right up there with Little, et al. You have to be a TERRIBLE person to do what he did. Raised wrong or otherwise, you're still a HUGE P.O.S.

You asked how much Football did the guys on my list play after there legal issues. Well heres the best breakdown to show that Vick is receiving no special treatment that hasnt been given to others:

Leonard Little
After leaving a birthday party in 1998, Little crashed into and killed Susan Gutweiler in St. Louis, Missouri. When tested, his blood alcohol level measured 0.19 percent, a level in excess of the statutory level of intoxication (0.08) in the state of Missouri. Little received four years probation and 1,000 hours of community service.

On January 18, 2003, with charges dating back to 1999, Little was charged with communicating threats and making harassing calls according to the Charlotte-Mecklenburg police department. Little's attorney, Scott Rosenblum, said the charges were filed after Little and his former girlfriend ended their relationship. Rosenblum added, "We don't think this case is going anywhere. It was groundless from the beginning".

On April 24, 2004, he was arrested again for DWI after being stopped by The Ladue Police Department for driving 78 in a 55 miles per hour zone on Interstate 64. At the time he had red eyes, smelled of alcohol and failed three roadside sobriety tests. He later admitted drinking alcohol to the police.After being convicted of misdemeanor speeding but acquitted of DWI, Little was sentenced to two years' probation on May 6, 2005.

On March 4, 2002, Little signed a five-year $17.5 million contract.
In Week 11 of the 2006 season, Little signed a 3-year $19.5 million contract extension that included a $6.1 million signing bonus

So basically after killing the woman, he went on to play 12 more years and make over $35 million despite having another DUI incident and at least one other run in with the law!

Christian Peter

While at Nebraska, Peter had eight run-ins with the law for various offenses such as threatening a parking attendant while his vehicle was being towed, trespassing, public urination, refusing to comply with police, minor in possession of alcohol, failure to appear in court, and allegedly grabbing a woman by the throat. He was convicted four times.
Most infamously, he was alleged to have ***** Kathy Redmond, a freshman from Littleton, Colorado; two times in two days—the second with two of his teammates watching. Redmond didn't report it to police until after her freshman year. Redmond's parents confronted various Nebraska coaches about it, but Peter was never charged or disciplined.
In 1993, Peter sexually assaulted Melissa DeMuth in his dorm room, and also groped Natalie Kuijvenhoven (a former Miss Nebraska) in a crowded bar and told her how she loved it in an obscenity-laced tirade. He was convicted and sentenced to 18 months probation, and was suspended for a 1993 exhibition game.
Peter was drafted by the New England Patriots in the fifth round of the 1996 NFL Draft. Only a month before the draft, he notched his eighth conviction in seven years, this time for grabbing a woman by the throat in a Kearney, Nebraska bar. The pick set off a firestorm of criticism from the Boston area press, Patriots fans and women's groups. After learning more about Peter's violent history, the Patriots relinquished the rights to Christian only a week after the draft. The team said that Christian's behavior was "incompatible with our organization's standards of acceptable conduct." According to The Boston Globe, Myra Kraft, the wife of Patriots owner Robert Kraft, personally demanded that the team cut all ties with Peter.

Kudos to the Patriots for dropping him, but even after everything came to a surface, the guy was still able to have a 6 year NFL career.


Brandon Marshall

According to Orlando-Orange County public records (case 48-2004-MM-012392-O), on Halloween 2004, while a student at UCF, Marshall was arrested in Orlando on charges of assault on a law enforcement officer, refusal to obey, disorderly conduct and resisting an officer.

On January 1, 2007, Marshall was present at "The Shelter," a nightclub in Denver, Colorado, along with teammates Javon Walker and Darrent Williams. The trio was attending a birthday party held for and by Denver Nuggets forward Kenyon Martin. As the players were leaving the club in a limousine, Williams was fatally shot in the neck after an unknown assailant opened fire on the vehicle. Willie Clark was later charged with the murder.Walker has stated in interviews that the shooter was likely a nightclub patron whose motive was retaliation after being involved in an altercation with Marshall's cousin earlier that night.

On March 26, 2007, Marshall was arrested in the Highlands Ranch suburb of Denver on suspicion of domestic violence after his girlfriend reported that following a domestic dispute, Marshall prevented a taxi she was in from leaving his house. Charges from the incident were later dismissed on May 25, 2007, after Marshall completed anger management counseling.

In the early morning of October 22, 2007, Marshall was arrested in the Denver-Aurora metropolitan area at the intersection of 14th and Blake St. for driving under the influence of alcohol.A trial was scheduled for September 16, but Marshall instead agreed to a plea bargain four days earlier; he pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of driving while ability impaired. He was sentenced to one-year probation and 24 hours of community service.

On June 12, 2008, Marshall was ticketed for an illegal lane change, then found to be without his license and proof of insurance. The case was eventually dropped as part of a plea bargain for the October 22, 2007 driving incident involving alcohol.

According to an article published in the Rocky Mountain News on July 28, 2008, Douglas County deputies fielded "about 11" calls to Marshall's home since January 2006. The article stated that one call resulted in Marshall being arrested (the March 26, 2007 domestic dispute), and some did not involve him at all.

A September 17, 2008 article on CompleteColorado.com stated that the solicitor's office in Fulton County, Georgia filed misdemeanor battery charges on September 10 for an alleged incident on March 4, 2008, in Atlanta, Georgia. Marshall was booked on March 6, then released the next day after posting a $1,000 cash bond. The case was assigned to Judge John Mather in Georgia state court. On August 14, 2009, a jury in Atlanta found Marshall not guilty.

On March 1, 2009, Marshall was arrested in Atlanta for disorderly conduct after allegedly being involved in a fight with his fiancee, Michi Nogami-Campbell. Marshall was released on a $300 bond. The charges were dropped the following day.

On April 14, 2010, Marshall was traded from the Denver Broncos to the Miami Dolphins for a second round pick in the 2010 NFL Draft and a second round pick in the 2011 NFL Draft.On the same day, the Dolphins and Marshall agreed to a four-year, $47.5 million extension.

The list goes on.
I saw a site once where they put together a pretty damn good team consisting only of players who have had legal troubles!
Either way, yes what he did sucks and I still think he has a long way to go. BUT given the previous precendent set by the NFL and its teams of giving players chance after chance, I dont think hes receiving any special treatment (nor should he) and I do believe that he should be allowed to make a living once serving his time!

 

[hive17]

The list goes on.
I saw a site once where they put together a pretty damn good team consisting only of players who have had legal troubles!
Either way, yes what he did sucks and I still think he has a long way to go. BUT given the previous precendent set by the NFL and its teams of giving players chance after chance, I dont think hes receiving any special treatment (nor should he) and I do believe that he should be allowed to make a living once serving his time!

I think we can both then agree that the NFL has a bit of a ****** up mentality then. You stated that the guys in your list were "FAR worse POS's", and I disagree to the degree that Vick ranks right up there with the rest you mentioned.

It's my own personal opinion on dog fighting and animal torture that leads me to these feelings. There is no "grey" area for me. He has to be a psychopath, clinically, to do the things he did.

Look, I'd sign a petition letting the NFL know they are jacked up, but I'm not going to actually DO anything about it (what could I do, besides have an opinion). All I can do is say Micheal Vick is a piece of human garbage everytime his name comes up. You'll notice that at no time have I made any sort of arguement with points and/or counterpoints for reasons that Vick shouldn't be playing in the NFL. I just think it's ****** up. I honestly can't even wish him a serious injury when he's playing, like some do; that stuff's not funny, and it could happen to anyone at any moment.

But if he gets turf toe and has to leave the game forever, then you know God is a dog lover!