My 2013 HOF Ballot

[D-Lite]

Runs is a team stat, plain and simple. If I'm even a little bit wrong about this, please enlighten me.

RBIs are a team stat. Can't score runs if you don't get on base, especially getting doubles, going 1st to 3rd on singles, and stealing bases to get into that important "scoring position".

 

[Gwynn545]

Anderson had 50 HR in 1996, Hank had 47 in 1971

If you want to have an intelligent discussion about this, please don't be ridiculous and compare this to Brady Anderson and Hank Aaron or any similar argument. Use some facts and actual statistics to support your argument and we can move on.

I used stats!

 

[PadresFan86]

Runs is a team stat, plain and simple. If I'm even a little bit wrong about this, please enlighten me.

This is also my opinion. This is like saying Mariano Rivera was better than Trevor Hoffman solely based on saves. Some players play on better teams...

 

[Ghumbs]

RBIs are a team stat. Can't score runs if you don't get on base, especially getting doubles, going 1st to 3rd on singles, and stealing bases to get into that important "scoring position".

If only there was some other way of measuring getting on base, hitting doubles, and stealing bases ::facepalm::

 

[elmalo]

This is also my opinion. This is like saying Mariano Rivera was better than Trevor Hoffman solely based on saves. Some players play on better teams...

You could look at the stats though and see that Rivera beats Hoffman in every statistical category.

 

[PadresFan86]

You could look at the stats though and see that Rivera beats Hoffman in every statistical category.

I guess you missed the main point of my statement you quoted. I said "solely based on saves".

 

[elmalo]

At least look at the stats...Not sure if numbers and letters are hard for you, but look at the stats, awards, accolades...They are not even close the same player. Yes, for a few years, Raines was good. Would you compare Brady Anderson to Hank Aaron?
Anderson had 50 HR in 1996, Hank had 47 in 1971...Anderson and Aaron were basically the same player... Don't even tell me that's a ridiculous comparison, because that is exactly what you people are doing when you compare Gwynn and Raines.:benson:

No, you wouldnt. You would look at the body of work. And, I gotta say, Raines holds his own when compared to Gwynn.

 

[Gwynn545]

No, you wouldnt. You would look at the body of work. And, I gotta say, Raines holds his own when compared to Gwynn.

And once again, you make zero sense... You say it, but there are no facts to back it up. Here's a fact, though: Raines was good for 5 years, Gwynn was good for 20. The only way you can compare the two are if you also compare Brady Anderson to Hank Aaron...

 

[elmalo]

I guess you missed the main point of my statement you quoted. I said "solely based on saves".

You're right, I did miss it. I read it quickly. My apologies.

 

[elmalo]

And once again, you make zero sense... You say it, but there are no facts to back it up. Here's a fact, though: Raines was good for 5 years, Gwynn was good for 20. The only way you can compare the two are if you also compare Brady Anderson to Hank Aaron...

Well, that is just false. Im not a huge sabermetrics guy, but if you look at their WAR, by position players Raines finished in the top ten 7 times and Gwynn 5 times. Offensive WAR top 10's Raines has 5 and Gwynn has 6. Besides the hits and the batting average for Gwynn and the stolen bases for Raines the numbers are pretty similar. So it isnt really at al like comparing Anderson to Aaron, bc Aarons career numbers dwarf those of Andersons. And if Gwynn was so much better for so much longer than why are there numbers so similar? I'd throw Minnie Minoso in with those 2 as well.

 

[PadresFan86]

How are Raines numbers so similiar to Gwynn's?

Gwynn's lifetime batting average is .44 better and has 536 more hits.

 

[D-Lite]

How are Raines numbers so similiar to Gwynn's?

Gwynn's lifetime batting average is .44 better and has 536 more hits.

Having a discussion on this with you two Gwynn guys is pointless. You keep referencing once stat that no one argues with yet just have your fingers jammed in your ears with regards to everything else.

 

[PadresFan86]

Having a discussion on this with you two Gwynn guys is pointless. You keep referencing once stat that no one argues with yet just have your fingers jammed in your ears with regards to everything else.

We argue the most significant stats while you argue stats that are less important.

Theres a reason why Gwynn is a first ballot hall of famer and why Raines can't even make it in.

Sent from my HUAWEI-M920 using Sports Cards by Freedom Card Board.com

 

[KnuckleballNation]

Raines did give Randy Johnson his nickname Big Unit. Wikipedia'd it. I'd say that's Hall worthy. .

 

[MansGame]

Raines stole so many bases while hitting the crack rock... HOF worthy for sure

 

[elmalo]

We argue the most significant stats while you argue stats that are less important.

Theres a reason why Gwynn is a first ballot hall of famer and why Raines can't even make it in.

Sent from my HUAWEI-M920 using Sports Cards by Freedom Card Board.com

Gwynn only beats Raines in 2 significant stats. Im really not sure what you are looking at if you look at their stats and dont see similarities.