Ndamukong Suh rightfully so ejected....thoughts..

[Shi Guy]

Meh, not that it's an excuse, but it's not like the guy he "kicked" was entirely innocent either. He clearly let his emotions get the better of him, but is it as bad as people are saying? No. Haynesworth's head stomp is an another level entirely.

 

[hive17]

Meh, it's not like the guy he "kicked" was entirely innocent either.

Yes, he was. He wasn't innocent when they we're tangling on the ground. But he didn't deserve to be kicked while he's on his back on the ground.

The kick/stomp/step was the issue. It's what drew the flag and the ejection.

And what's funny, is that players will now be able to get Suh to overreact in the future by calling him out on it. He clearly is not in control of himself, and all someone has to do is call him a liar, child/boy, or make some other snide remark about it and he'll go off and draw another stupid penalty.

 

[Shi Guy]

Meh, it's not like the guy he "kicked" was entirely innocent either.

Yes, he was. He wasn't innocent when they we're tangling on the ground. But he didn't deserve to be kicked while he's on his back on the ground.

The kick/stomp/step was the issue. It's what drew the flag and the ejection.

And what's funny, is that players will now be able to get Suh to overreact in the future by calling him out on it. He clearly is not in control of himself, and all someone has to do is call him a liar, child/boy, or make some other snide remark about it and he'll go off and draw another stupid penalty.

:?: Yes he was, or no he wasn't? You'll have to clarify for me, as your statement has me confused.

 

[homerun28aa]

How was the offensive lineman at fault? Was it because he didn't let Suh through? Completely agree with the poster above, any player who wants to get in his head now will just try to get under his skin and it'll be incredibly easy. I also agree with sending a message and suspending him for the year. Not only for the hit, for the fact he's literally a pathological liar and Goodell knows that and Goodell knows he was basically making a fool of him when he called that meeting with him.

[quote="Shi Guy":8vx321cg]Meh, it's not like the guy he "kicked" was entirely innocent either.

Yes, he was. He wasn't innocent when they we're tangling on the ground. But he didn't deserve to be kicked while he's on his back on the ground.

The kick/stomp/step was the issue. It's what drew the flag and the ejection.

And what's funny, is that players will now be able to get Suh to overreact in the future by calling him out on it. He clearly is not in control of himself, and all someone has to do is call him a liar, child/boy, or make some other snide remark about it and he'll go off and draw another stupid penalty.

:?: Yes he was, or no he wasn't? You'll have to clarify for me, as your statement has me confused.[/quote:8vx321cg]

 

[hive17]

[quote="Shi Guy":vgz8z1m3]Meh, it's not like the guy he "kicked" was entirely innocent either.

Yes, he was. He wasn't innocent when they we're tangling on the ground. But he didn't deserve to be kicked while he's on his back on the ground.

The kick/stomp/step was the issue. It's what drew the flag and the ejection.

And what's funny, is that players will now be able to get Suh to overreact in the future by calling him out on it. He clearly is not in control of himself, and all someone has to do is call him a liar, child/boy, or make some other snide remark about it and he'll go off and draw another stupid penalty.

:?: Yes he was, or no he wasn't? You'll have to clarify for me, as your statement has me confused.[/quote:vgz8z1m3]

Sorry.

If the incident had stopped before the kick, then you're right: neither guy is completely without responsibility, just two guys rolling around after the play. But after the play, with Dietrich-Smith laying there on his back, (at that point) it's an innocent man getting kicked by an ******* who can't control his ****.

And I don't want to make a big deal out of it and I don't really care what suspension (if any) Suh gets, but I can't stand the people that try to defend it as anything other than a ********* acting out quasi-violently. And I'm not saying you're doing that.

 

[hive17]

Meh, it's not like the guy he "kicked" was entirely innocent either.

Yes, he was. He wasn't innocent when they we're tangling on the ground. But he didn't deserve to be kicked while he's on his back on the ground.

The kick/stomp/step was the issue. It's what drew the flag and the ejection.

And what's funny, is that players will now be able to get Suh to overreact in the future by calling him out on it. He clearly is not in control of himself, and all someone has to do is call him a liar, child/boy, or make some other snide remark about it and he'll go off and draw another stupid penalty.

Marshall Faulk agrees with me apparently

 

[martincp]

As a rugby player through my school years, where stomping/stamping with studded boots happens 20 times+ per game when the ball is in a ruck (and it is quite often very deliberate to slow the opposition down), I and my rugby-playing breathen have always been amazed at the reaction to stamping in the NFL.

I understand that its part of the rules of the games and therefore in light of the rules of the game warrants an ejection/fine but seriously what is the big deal here - was the lineman injured - are players likely to get injured in this circumstance given the helmet/other padded protection?

EDIT - To add I watch every NFL game I can and also a lot of college football - not trying to be antagonistic above - I just don't understand the reaction.

 

[TiajuanaDonkey]

As a rugby player through my school years, where stomping/stamping with studded boots happens 20 times+ per game when the ball is in a ruck (and it is quite often very deliberate to slow the opposition down), I and my rugby-playing breathen have always been amazed at the reaction to stamping in the NFL.

I understand that its part of the rules of the games and therefore in light of the rules of the game warrants an ejection/fine but seriously what is the big deal here - was the lineman injured - are players likely to get injured in this circumstance given the helmet/other padded protection?

EDIT - To add I watch every NFL game I can and also a lot of college football - not trying to be antagonistic above - I just don't understand the reaction.

Rugby is the last of a dying bread....the last real "man" sport IMO...football is becoming "pussified" so it's really hard to compare the 2 sports...but I still don't think a guy should be kicked while he's on the ground.

 

[notjomommasclint]

He plays violently!!! This was common place a decade or two back. I got no beef with a fine and vacation but comparing this to Albert haynesworth stepping on a dudes head is a stretch.

Tom he is that good. He's that strong, that fast, that determined, and draws double to triple teams play after play. He is the reason vandenbosch and fairely get their pressure. While his stats are off from last year it's only because he draws attention. Aside from today and the preseason hit on Dalton what are the other dirty hits? And don't say the cutler shove from last year that was weak!

He needs to realize teams will bait him and he must control himself. The success of his team depends on him staying mentally engaged in foozeball

He's good he isn't THAT good. I wouldn't compare him to the elite of the elite lineman in the league yet. If you're arguing he isn't a dirty player then good luck with that one. What about the hit with Delhomme? Guess that one was just a commonplace hit. Oh, and what about what he said after the game, he lost his balance and shoved his head into the ground and stepped on the guy to keep his balance, do you think that's the truth?

i would compare him to the elite. as a matter of fact i would say that with the attention he gets from the o line and the media he is probably the most feared interior linemen in the league.

what he said after the game? who cares what he said? he could have said orange, apple, bat boy, pasta salad. it doesnt make him kicking the guy right. however this is a mountain made from a mole hill. they are haynesworth this haynesworth that... haynesworth cleted a helmetless player if i remember right... which a reverse camel stomp is far far far from. to me its just taking the bait and running with the line. its the biggest story in the nfl today. why? there were 3 games yesterday and one stomp! there was also a packer ejected yesterday for punching someone in the face how dirty was he? what did he say after the game? it doesnt matter because he isnt the talent suh is and the punch spoke for him. just like suhs kick spoke for him. as far as shoving the guys head into the ground? non issue they were still engaged. last i remember its still tackle football where violence is expected.

you named me one play... so the list is...

1. body slam of delhomme
2. body slam of dalton
3. kick of packer linemen

didnt dick butkus make a hall of fame career doing this?

 

[Viking4Alpha]

i would compare him to the elite. as a matter of fact i would say that with the attention he gets from the o line and the media he is probably the most feared interior linemen in the league.

what he said after the game? who cares what he said? he could have said orange, apple, bat boy, pasta salad. it doesnt make him kicking the guy right. however this is a mountain made from a mole hill. they are haynesworth this haynesworth that... haynesworth cleted a helmetless player if i remember right... which a reverse camel stomp is far far far from. to me its just taking the bait and running with the line. its the biggest story in the nfl today. why? there were 3 games yesterday and one stomp! there was also a packer ejected yesterday for punching someone in the face how dirty was he? what did he say after the game? it doesnt matter because he isnt the talent suh is and the punch spoke for him. just like suhs kick spoke for him. as far as shoving the guys head into the ground? non issue they were still engaged. last i remember its still tackle football where violence is expected.

you named me one play... so the list is...

1. body slam of delhomme
2. body slam of dalton
3. kick of packer linemen

didnt dick butkus make a hall of fame career doing this?

/thread, well said.

 

[hive17]

i would compare him to the elite. as a matter of fact i would say that with the attention he gets from the o line and the media he is probably the most feared interior linemen in the league.

what he said after the game? who cares what he said? he could have said orange, apple, bat boy, pasta salad. it doesnt make him kicking the guy right. however this is a mountain made from a mole hill. they are haynesworth this haynesworth that... haynesworth cleted a helmetless player if i remember right... which a reverse camel stomp is far far far from. to me its just taking the bait and running with the line. its the biggest story in the nfl today. why? there were 3 games yesterday and one stomp! there was also a packer ejected yesterday for punching someone in the face how dirty was he? what did he say after the game? it doesnt matter because he isnt the talent suh is and the punch spoke for him. just like suhs kick spoke for him. as far as shoving the guys head into the ground? non issue they were still engaged. last i remember its still tackle football where violence is expected.

you named me one play... so the list is...

1. body slam of delhomme
2. body slam of dalton
3. kick of packer linemen

didnt dick butkus make a hall of fame career doing this?

/thread, well said.

I agree with Clint. The only problem I have is that he somehow thinks he's absolved of what he clearly did. 1) you can't tell me he didn't kick a guy out of frustration, the only one that thinks that is him, leading to 2) he comes off like a massive ***** for trying to lie his way out of it like a child.

For a guy that wants to be feared and intimidating, in that press conference, he sure came off like a scared child trying to talk his way out of an ass-whipping from mom.

All the former player analysts I've heard see it that way too. Just own up to it. Either say "sorry, I shouldn't have done that," or come off like a BAMF and say "yeah, I kicked him and put his head into the ground; he'll know who not to screw with next time!" Anything else makes him look like a retard.

 

[Y4NK335]

i would compare him to the elite. as a matter of fact i would say that with the attention he gets from the o line and the media he is probably the most feared interior linemen in the league.

what he said after the game? who cares what he said? he could have said orange, apple, bat boy, pasta salad. it doesnt make him kicking the guy right. however this is a mountain made from a mole hill. they are haynesworth this haynesworth that... haynesworth cleted a helmetless player if i remember right... which a reverse camel stomp is far far far from. to me its just taking the bait and running with the line. its the biggest story in the nfl today. why? there were 3 games yesterday and one stomp! there was also a packer ejected yesterday for punching someone in the face how dirty was he? what did he say after the game? it doesnt matter because he isnt the talent suh is and the punch spoke for him. just like suhs kick spoke for him. as far as shoving the guys head into the ground? non issue they were still engaged. last i remember its still tackle football where violence is expected.

you named me one play... so the list is...

1. body slam of delhomme
2. body slam of dalton
3. kick of packer linemen

didnt dick butkus make a hall of fame career doing this?

/thread, well said.

I agree with Clint. The only problem I have is that he somehow thinks he's absolved of what he clearly did. 1) you can't tell me he didn't kick a guy out of frustration, the only one that thinks that is him, leading to 2) he comes off like a massive ***** for trying to lie his way out of it like a child.

For a guy that wants to be feared and intimidating, in that press conference, he sure came off like a scared child trying to talk his way out of an ass-whipping from Roger Goodell

All the former player analysts I've heard see it that way too. Just own up to it. Either say "sorry, I shouldn't have done that," or come off like a BAMF and say "yeah, I kicked him and put his head into the ground; he'll know who not to screw with next time!" Anything else makes him look like a retard.

Fixed.

He was trying to downplay the kick to avoid serious penalty from Goodell.

I also agree with Clint 100%. This guy isn't just good, he's great. Almost every single team in the league would pounce on the opportunity to have him over their current DT.

 

[homerun28aa]

Look I'm not arguing he isn't in the conversation for the best interior lineman in the NFL today. My issue is that he obviously isn't a HOF player YET nor is he one of the greats YET, he's still young and he's been impressive so far but he doesn't have the seniority yet his ego isn't founded on a solid career it's founded on a solid season. Don't compare him to Butkus yet, that's a joke this guy is in his second year. If you don't think Suh has had an incredibly dirty career for just playing a year and a half then you haven't been watching enough football. I'm not saying stomping on a guy is an incredibly dangerous play or something, I'm saying out of principle that's blatent disrespect and there's no place for that. Why do guys get a 15 yard penalty when they taunt the opponent by giving them the ball after a play or touchdown? There's no place for that there just isn't. It isn't rugby and guess why maybe 2% of people in the US can name a rugby player but nearly everyone can name a bunch of football players. I don't think anyone is saying the stomping was something that seriously injured the lineman but you don't show your opponent disrespect like that when you've been in the league for only one full year. He isn't acting like a guy whose got anything to prove yet he's acting like a spoiled bitch who should have the organization he's on wipe his ass for him. Look at Ray Lewis, one of the best and most tenacious defensive players of all time he brings so much anger out onto the field but he plays with a ton of respect for his team and his opponent. And when he did do stuff he didn't back down from it and make a 6 year old lie up. Bottom line basketball, soccer, football, baseball, tennis, bowling, cricket any sport you don't disrespect your opponent your organization your fans and yourself like that.

i would compare him to the elite. as a matter of fact i would say that with the attention he gets from the o line and the media he is probably the most feared interior linemen in the league.

what he said after the game? who cares what he said? he could have said orange, apple, bat boy, pasta salad. it doesnt make him kicking the guy right. however this is a mountain made from a mole hill. they are haynesworth this haynesworth that... haynesworth cleted a helmetless player if i remember right... which a reverse camel stomp is far far far from. to me its just taking the bait and running with the line. its the biggest story in the nfl today. why? there were 3 games yesterday and one stomp! there was also a packer ejected yesterday for punching someone in the face how dirty was he? what did he say after the game? it doesnt matter because he isnt the talent suh is and the punch spoke for him. just like suhs kick spoke for him. as far as shoving the guys head into the ground? non issue they were still engaged. last i remember its still tackle football where violence is expected.

you named me one play... so the list is...

1. body slam of delhomme
2. body slam of dalton
3. kick of packer linemen

didnt dick butkus make a hall of fame career doing this?

/thread, well said.

I agree with Clint. The only problem I have is that he somehow thinks he's absolved of what he clearly did. 1) you can't tell me he didn't kick a guy out of frustration, the only one that thinks that is him, leading to 2) he comes off like a massive ***** for trying to lie his way out of it like a child.

For a guy that wants to be feared and intimidating, in that press conference, he sure came off like a scared child trying to talk his way out of an ass-whipping from Roger Goodell

All the former player analysts I've heard see it that way too. Just own up to it. Either say "sorry, I shouldn't have done that," or come off like a BAMF and say "yeah, I kicked him and put his head into the ground; he'll know who not to screw with next time!" Anything else makes him look like a retard.

Fixed.

He was trying to downplay the kick to avoid serious penalty from Goodell.

I also agree with Clint 100%. This guy isn't just good, he's great. Almost every single team in the league would pounce on the opportunity to have him over their current DT.

 

[notjomommasclint]

Look I'm not arguing he isn't in the conversation for the best interior lineman in the NFL today. My issue is that he obviously isn't a HOF player YET nor is he one of the greats YET, he's still young and he's been impressive so far but he doesn't have the seniority yet his ego isn't founded on a solid career it's founded on a solid season. Don't compare him to Butkus yet, that's a joke this guy is in his second year. If you don't think Suh has had an incredibly dirty career for just playing a year and a half then you haven't been watching enough football. I'm not saying stomping on a guy is an incredibly dangerous play or something, I'm saying out of principle that's blatent disrespect and there's no place for that. Why do guys get a 15 yard penalty when they taunt the opponent by giving them the ball after a play or touchdown? There's no place for that there just isn't. It isn't rugby and guess why maybe 2% of people in the US can name a rugby player but nearly everyone can name a bunch of football players. I don't think anyone is saying the stomping was something that seriously injured the lineman but you don't show your opponent disrespect like that when you've been in the league for only one full year. He isn't acting like a guy whose got anything to prove yet he's acting like a spoiled bitch who should have the organization he's on wipe his ass for him. Look at Ray Lewis, one of the best and most tenacious defensive players of all time he brings so much anger out onto the field but he plays with a ton of respect for his team and his opponent. And when he did do stuff he didn't back down from it and make a 6 year old lie up. Bottom line basketball, soccer, football, baseball, tennis, bowling, cricket any sport you don't disrespect your opponent your organization your fans and yourself like that.

i would compare him to the elite. as a matter of fact i would say that with the attention he gets from the o line and the media he is probably the most feared interior linemen in the league.

what he said after the game? who cares what he said? he could have said orange, apple, bat boy, pasta salad. it doesnt make him kicking the guy right. however this is a mountain made from a mole hill. they are haynesworth this haynesworth that... haynesworth cleted a helmetless player if i remember right... which a reverse camel stomp is far far far from. to me its just taking the bait and running with the line. its the biggest story in the nfl today. why? there were 3 games yesterday and one stomp! there was also a packer ejected yesterday for punching someone in the face how dirty was he? what did he say after the game? it doesnt matter because he isnt the talent suh is and the punch spoke for him. just like suhs kick spoke for him. as far as shoving the guys head into the ground? non issue they were still engaged. last i remember its still tackle football where violence is expected.

you named me one play... so the list is...

1. body slam of delhomme
2. body slam of dalton
3. kick of packer linemen

didnt dick butkus make a hall of fame career doing this?

/thread, well said.

I agree with Clint. The only problem I have is that he somehow thinks he's absolved of what he clearly did. 1) you can't tell me he didn't kick a guy out of frustration, the only one that thinks that is him, leading to 2) he comes off like a massive ***** for trying to lie his way out of it like a child.

For a guy that wants to be feared and intimidating, in that press conference, he sure came off like a scared child trying to talk his way out of an ass-whipping from Roger Goodell

All the former player analysts I've heard see it that way too. Just own up to it. Either say "sorry, I shouldn't have done that," or come off like a BAMF and say "yeah, I kicked him and put his head into the ground; he'll know who not to screw with next time!" Anything else makes him look like a retard.

Fixed.

He was trying to downplay the kick to avoid serious penalty from Goodell.

I also agree with Clint 100%. This guy isn't just good, he's great. Almost every single team in the league would pounce on the opportunity to have him over their current DT.

im not comparing him to butkus. im saying the game has changed from a mans sport where clothesline tackles and head hunting was the norm to a fluffly little dont touch the qb and wr finesse game. i dont think he is in the hall of fame either... but i do think he is a force on the inside. i think that he rents just as much space inside the man lined up across from him as a player in the league for 8 years. once he lines up across from a center or guard that rookie years in the league crap is out the window. its man vs man. in suhs case its man vs man, man... should he show respect by putting on a fancy little belt when he scores? or throwing touchdowns when your team is up by 21? no because showing respect has nothing to do with it. its about winning your battle each play! the packer lineman got in his head and made what ended up being a great play for the team. suh did exactly the opposite of that. suh cost his team 4 points! plus the plays he could have made later on!

ive watched suh play for the last 5 years. i would build my defense around him... he is a bigger ray ray lewis. he plays with heart, cant be stopped attitude, and there are no good intentions about him... and there shouldnt be. he plays professional football. he shouldnt have to go out there and two hand tag players because he is too violent. maybe next game he can hold a cake and punch party and exchange cooking secrets. he stomped a dude he needs to pay the fine do the time and come back using his head to avoid these situations. what about the packer punch? that showed a blatant disrespect for the opponent. but no one cares because he isnt suh. if jack tatum or ronnie lott or mike harden or jack lambert played today they would be outcast and dirty bastards... and i would still love to watch them play!

 

[hive17]

Look I'm not arguing he isn't in the conversation for the best interior lineman in the NFL today. My issue is that he obviously isn't a HOF player YET nor is he one of the greats YET, he's still young and he's been impressive so far but he doesn't have the seniority yet his ego isn't founded on a solid career it's founded on a solid season. Don't compare him to Butkus yet, that's a joke this guy is in his second year. If you don't think Suh has had an incredibly dirty career for just playing a year and a half then you haven't been watching enough football. I'm not saying stomping on a guy is an incredibly dangerous play or something, I'm saying out of principle that's blatent disrespect and there's no place for that. Why do guys get a 15 yard penalty when they taunt the opponent by giving them the ball after a play or touchdown? There's no place for that there just isn't. It isn't rugby and guess why maybe 2% of people in the US can name a rugby player but nearly everyone can name a bunch of football players. I don't think anyone is saying the stomping was something that seriously injured the lineman but you don't show your opponent disrespect like that when you've been in the league for only one full year. He isn't acting like a guy whose got anything to prove yet he's acting like a spoiled bitch who should have the organization he's on wipe his ass for him. Look at Ray Lewis, one of the best and most tenacious defensive players of all time he brings so much anger out onto the field but he plays with a ton of respect for his team and his opponent. And when he did do stuff he didn't back down from it and make a 6 year old lie up. Bottom line basketball, soccer, football, baseball, tennis, bowling, cricket any sport you don't disrespect your opponent your organization your fans and yourself like that.

[quote="notjomommasclint":1zqfa4bs]i would compare him to the elite. as a matter of fact i would say that with the attention he gets from the o line and the media he is probably the most feared interior linemen in the league.

what he said after the game? who cares what he said? he could have said orange, apple, bat boy, pasta salad. it doesnt make him kicking the guy right. however this is a mountain made from a mole hill. they are haynesworth this haynesworth that... haynesworth cleted a helmetless player if i remember right... which a reverse camel stomp is far far far from. to me its just taking the bait and running with the line. its the biggest story in the nfl today. why? there were 3 games yesterday and one stomp! there was also a packer ejected yesterday for punching someone in the face how dirty was he? what did he say after the game? it doesnt matter because he isnt the talent suh is and the punch spoke for him. just like suhs kick spoke for him. as far as shoving the guys head into the ground? non issue they were still engaged. last i remember its still tackle football where violence is expected.

you named me one play... so the list is...

1. body slam of delhomme
2. body slam of dalton
3. kick of packer linemen

didnt dick butkus make a hall of fame career doing this?

/thread, well said.

I agree with Clint. The only problem I have is that he somehow thinks he's absolved of what he clearly did. 1) you can't tell me he didn't kick a guy out of frustration, the only one that thinks that is him, leading to 2) he comes off like a massive ***** for trying to lie his way out of it like a child.

For a guy that wants to be feared and intimidating, in that press conference, he sure came off like a scared child trying to talk his way out of an ass-whipping from Roger Goodell

All the former player analysts I've heard see it that way too. Just own up to it. Either say "sorry, I shouldn't have done that," or come off like a BAMF and say "yeah, I kicked him and put his head into the ground; he'll know who not to screw with next time!" Anything else makes him look like a retard.

Fixed.

He was trying to downplay the kick to avoid serious penalty from Goodell.

I also agree with Clint 100%. This guy isn't just good, he's great. Almost every single team in the league would pounce on the opportunity to have him over their current DT.

im not comparing him to butkus. im saying the game has changed from a mans sport where clothesline tackles and head hunting was the norm to a fluffly little dont touch the qb and wr finesse game. i dont think he is in the hall of fame either... but i do think he is a force on the inside. i think that he rents just as much space inside the man lined up across from him as a player in the league for 8 years. once he lines up across from a center or guard that rookie years in the league crap is out the window. its man vs man. in suhs case its man vs man, man... should he show respect by putting on a fancy little belt when he scores? or throwing touchdowns when your team is up by 21? no because showing respect has nothing to do with it. its about winning your battle each play! the packer lineman got in his head and made what ended up being a great play for the team. suh did exactly the opposite of that. suh cost his team 4 points! plus the plays he could have made later on!

ive watched suh play for the last 5 years. i would build my defense around him... he is a bigger ray ray lewis. he plays with heart, cant be stopped attitude, and there are no good intentions about him... and there shouldnt be. he plays professional football. he shouldnt have to go out there and two hand tag players because he is too violent. maybe next game he can hold a cake and punch party and exchange cooking secrets. he stomped a dude he needs to pay the fine do the time and come back using his head to avoid these situations. what about the packer punch? that showed a blatant disrespect for the opponent. but no one cares because he isnt suh. if jack tatum or ronnie lott or mike harden or jack lambert played today they would be outcast and dirty bastards... and i would still love to watch them play![/quote:1zqfa4bs]

People can keep bringing up the Packer gunner (Pat Lee) who was tangling with another player who was doing the same thing, but it has no relavance to this arguement. The gunner stuff is some of the most entertaining parts of football. Guys throw punches all the time and get to put hands in people's faces with no reprecussions. I don't think anyone should ever be ejected after a kick-off for jamming people and tussling during the play. It's dumb. There are litterally NO rules on those interactions; they should just simply be allowed to fight during it.

Again, the problem with Suh (and it's unique to ONLY what he did in that game), was that the play was over, he should have been disengaging, and he took a cheap shot like a little bitch. Then he tried to lie about it like a punk.

 

[homerun28aa]

I agree and disagree with you. My point was that he isn't any of those guys you mentioned they are HOF players he is in his second year he has a TON left to prove. But back to the main argument I agree with you that the game has become soft. Best example a week or two weeks ago Pittsburgh Baltimore forget the guys involved but on the last drive a Baltimore WR caught the ball in a reasonable amount of space and the Steelers DB leveled him and stopped the guy from making the catch because he was clearly going to have possession until the Steeler put in an ideally timed hit. 5 years ago that would have been an absolutely outstanding play but today that's 15 yards unnecessary roughness on a WR. WR shouldn't get the amount of protection they get today, I'd say QB's should get helmet to helmet protection because it was getting to the point of way too many concussions for QB's before that rule, but nonetheless now I think they have too much protection as well, but at least they deserve some. Back to Suh, the guy who posted under you nailed it. It was after the play, how could you defend someone engaging himself in action like that AFTER the play? Me and you are on the same page I love the violence and hard hitting and tenacity during the play and if Suh bought those qualities you're talking about and used them DURING the game itself instead of in the middle of plays it would be more beneficial to himself and his teammates.

And again like I said before, I wouldn't be so frustrated if he said hey I let my emotions get the best of me I got blocked the lineman got in my head I need to control my anger. But he made up COMPLETE AND UTTER ********. Not a single person none of the Suh fans truly believe he tripped and tried to balance on the Packer by smashing his head into the ground and stepping on him. He called a meeting with Goodell to feed him total garbage that he needs to learn the rules better and what's expected of him and then he goes out and does that and just makes up a little 7 year old lie up. He really isn't proving himself as much of a man by doing that...

Look I'm not arguing he isn't in the conversation for the best interior lineman in the NFL today. My issue is that he obviously isn't a HOF player YET nor is he one of the greats YET, he's still young and he's been impressive so far but he doesn't have the seniority yet his ego isn't founded on a solid career it's founded on a solid season. Don't compare him to Butkus yet, that's a joke this guy is in his second year. If you don't think Suh has had an incredibly dirty career for just playing a year and a half then you haven't been watching enough football. I'm not saying stomping on a guy is an incredibly dangerous play or something, I'm saying out of principle that's blatent disrespect and there's no place for that. Why do guys get a 15 yard penalty when they taunt the opponent by giving them the ball after a play or touchdown? There's no place for that there just isn't. It isn't rugby and guess why maybe 2% of people in the US can name a rugby player but nearly everyone can name a bunch of football players. I don't think anyone is saying the stomping was something that seriously injured the lineman but you don't show your opponent disrespect like that when you've been in the league for only one full year. He isn't acting like a guy whose got anything to prove yet he's acting like a spoiled bitch who should have the organization he's on wipe his ass for him. Look at Ray Lewis, one of the best and most tenacious defensive players of all time he brings so much anger out onto the field but he plays with a ton of respect for his team and his opponent. And when he did do stuff he didn't back down from it and make a 6 year old lie up. Bottom line basketball, soccer, football, baseball, tennis, bowling, cricket any sport you don't disrespect your opponent your organization your fans and yourself like that.

[quote="notjomommasclint":u4gpveeg]i would compare him to the elite. as a matter of fact i would say that with the attention he gets from the o line and the media he is probably the most feared interior linemen in the league.

what he said after the game? who cares what he said? he could have said orange, apple, bat boy, pasta salad. it doesnt make him kicking the guy right. however this is a mountain made from a mole hill. they are haynesworth this haynesworth that... haynesworth cleted a helmetless player if i remember right... which a reverse camel stomp is far far far from. to me its just taking the bait and running with the line. its the biggest story in the nfl today. why? there were 3 games yesterday and one stomp! there was also a packer ejected yesterday for punching someone in the face how dirty was he? what did he say after the game? it doesnt matter because he isnt the talent suh is and the punch spoke for him. just like suhs kick spoke for him. as far as shoving the guys head into the ground? non issue they were still engaged. last i remember its still tackle football where violence is expected.

you named me one play... so the list is...

1. body slam of delhomme
2. body slam of dalton
3. kick of packer linemen

didnt dick butkus make a hall of fame career doing this?

/thread, well said.

I agree with Clint. The only problem I have is that he somehow thinks he's absolved of what he clearly did. 1) you can't tell me he didn't kick a guy out of frustration, the only one that thinks that is him, leading to 2) he comes off like a massive ***** for trying to lie his way out of it like a child.

For a guy that wants to be feared and intimidating, in that press conference, he sure came off like a scared child trying to talk his way out of an ass-whipping from Roger Goodell

All the former player analysts I've heard see it that way too. Just own up to it. Either say "sorry, I shouldn't have done that," or come off like a BAMF and say "yeah, I kicked him and put his head into the ground; he'll know who not to screw with next time!" Anything else makes him look like a retard.

Fixed.

He was trying to downplay the kick to avoid serious penalty from Goodell.

I also agree with Clint 100%. This guy isn't just good, he's great. Almost every single team in the league would pounce on the opportunity to have him over their current DT.

im not comparing him to butkus. im saying the game has changed from a mans sport where clothesline tackles and head hunting was the norm to a fluffly little dont touch the qb and wr finesse game. i dont think he is in the hall of fame either... but i do think he is a force on the inside. i think that he rents just as much space inside the man lined up across from him as a player in the league for 8 years. once he lines up across from a center or guard that rookie years in the league crap is out the window. its man vs man. in suhs case its man vs man, man... should he show respect by putting on a fancy little belt when he scores? or throwing touchdowns when your team is up by 21? no because showing respect has nothing to do with it. its about winning your battle each play! the packer lineman got in his head and made what ended up being a great play for the team. suh did exactly the opposite of that. suh cost his team 4 points! plus the plays he could have made later on!

ive watched suh play for the last 5 years. i would build my defense around him... he is a bigger ray ray lewis. he plays with heart, cant be stopped attitude, and there are no good intentions about him... and there shouldnt be. he plays professional football. he shouldnt have to go out there and two hand tag players because he is too violent. maybe next game he can hold a cake and punch party and exchange cooking secrets. he stomped a dude he needs to pay the fine do the time and come back using his head to avoid these situations. what about the packer punch? that showed a blatant disrespect for the opponent. but no one cares because he isnt suh. if jack tatum or ronnie lott or mike harden or jack lambert played today they would be outcast and dirty bastards... and i would still love to watch them play![/quote:u4gpveeg]

 

[Crewfan82]

Look I'm not arguing he isn't in the conversation for the best interior lineman in the NFL today. My issue is that he obviously isn't a HOF player YET nor is he one of the greats YET, he's still young and he's been impressive so far but he doesn't have the seniority yet his ego isn't founded on a solid career it's founded on a solid season. Don't compare him to Butkus yet, that's a joke this guy is in his second year. If you don't think Suh has had an incredibly dirty career for just playing a year and a half then you haven't been watching enough football. I'm not saying stomping on a guy is an incredibly dangerous play or something, I'm saying out of principle that's blatent disrespect and there's no place for that. Why do guys get a 15 yard penalty when they taunt the opponent by giving them the ball after a play or touchdown? There's no place for that there just isn't. It isn't rugby and guess why maybe 2% of people in the US can name a rugby player but nearly everyone can name a bunch of football players. I don't think anyone is saying the stomping was something that seriously injured the lineman but you don't show your opponent disrespect like that when you've been in the league for only one full year. He isn't acting like a guy whose got anything to prove yet he's acting like a spoiled bitch who should have the organization he's on wipe his ass for him. Look at Ray Lewis, one of the best and most tenacious defensive players of all time he brings so much anger out onto the field but he plays with a ton of respect for his team and his opponent. And when he did do stuff he didn't back down from it and make a 6 year old lie up. Bottom line basketball, soccer, football, baseball, tennis, bowling, cricket any sport you don't disrespect your opponent your organization your fans and yourself like that.

[quote="Viking4Alpha":bupdpizb][quote="notjomommasclint":bupdpizb]i would compare him to the elite. as a matter of fact i would say that with the attention he gets from the o line and the media he is probably the most feared interior linemen in the league.

what he said after the game? who cares what he said? he could have said orange, apple, bat boy, pasta salad. it doesnt make him kicking the guy right. however this is a mountain made from a mole hill. they are haynesworth this haynesworth that... haynesworth cleted a helmetless player if i remember right... which a reverse camel stomp is far far far from. to me its just taking the bait and running with the line. its the biggest story in the nfl today. why? there were 3 games yesterday and one stomp! there was also a packer ejected yesterday for punching someone in the face how dirty was he? what did he say after the game? it doesnt matter because he isnt the talent suh is and the punch spoke for him. just like suhs kick spoke for him. as far as shoving the guys head into the ground? non issue they were still engaged. last i remember its still tackle football where violence is expected.

you named me one play... so the list is...

1. body slam of delhomme
2. body slam of dalton
3. kick of packer linemen

didnt dick butkus make a hall of fame career doing this?

/thread, well said.

I agree with Clint. The only problem I have is that he somehow thinks he's absolved of what he clearly did. 1) you can't tell me he didn't kick a guy out of frustration, the only one that thinks that is him, leading to 2) he comes off like a massive ***** for trying to lie his way out of it like a child.

For a guy that wants to be feared and intimidating, in that press conference, he sure came off like a scared child trying to talk his way out of an ass-whipping from Roger Goodell

All the former player analysts I've heard see it that way too. Just own up to it. Either say "sorry, I shouldn't have done that," or come off like a BAMF and say "yeah, I kicked him and put his head into the ground; he'll know who not to screw with next time!" Anything else makes him look like a retard.

Fixed.

He was trying to downplay the kick to avoid serious penalty from Goodell.

I also agree with Clint 100%. This guy isn't just good, he's great. Almost every single team in the league would pounce on the opportunity to have him over their current DT.

im not comparing him to butkus. im saying the game has changed from a mans sport where clothesline tackles and head hunting was the norm to a fluffly little dont touch the qb and wr finesse game. i dont think he is in the hall of fame either... but i do think he is a force on the inside. i think that he rents just as much space inside the man lined up across from him as a player in the league for 8 years. once he lines up across from a center or guard that rookie years in the league crap is out the window. its man vs man. in suhs case its man vs man, man... should he show respect by putting on a fancy little belt when he scores? or throwing touchdowns when your team is up by 21? no because showing respect has nothing to do with it. its about winning your battle each play! the packer lineman got in his head and made what ended up being a great play for the team. suh did exactly the opposite of that. suh cost his team 4 points! plus the plays he could have made later on!

ive watched suh play for the last 5 years. i would build my defense around him... he is a bigger ray ray lewis. he plays with heart, cant be stopped attitude, and there are no good intentions about him... and there shouldnt be. he plays professional football. he shouldnt have to go out there and two hand tag players because he is too violent. maybe next game he can hold a cake and punch party and exchange cooking secrets. he stomped a dude he needs to pay the fine do the time and come back using his head to avoid these situations. what about the packer punch? that showed a blatant disrespect for the opponent. but no one cares because he isnt suh. if jack tatum or ronnie lott or mike harden or jack lambert played today they would be outcast and dirty bastards... and i would still love to watch them play![/quote:bupdpizb]

People can keep bringing up the Packer gunner (Pat Lee) who was tangling with another player who was doing the same thing, but it has no relavance to this arguement. The gunner stuff is some of the most entertaining parts of football. Guys throw punches all the time and get to put hands in people's faces with no reprecussions. I don't think anyone should ever be ejected after a kick-off for jamming people and tussling during the play. It's dumb. There are litterally NO rules on those interactions; they should just simply be allowed to fight during it.

Again, the problem with Suh (and it's unique to ONLY what he did in that game), was that the play was over, he should have been disengaging, and he took a cheap shot like a little bitch. Then he tried to lie about it like a punk.[/quote:bupdpizb]


Completely agree with Hive here. I honestly don't really have a huge issue with the head pushing and the stomp. It was cheap, but it happens all the time and doesn't get this much attention. A couple weeks ago a Viking DL kicked TJ Lang (Packer OL) in the junk after the play was over, and only got a personal foul from it.

My issue is the fact that Suh tried to lie about and tried to use God to justify his actions. If you are so BA and that is how you play own it and move on. The man upstairs knows you are a huge *****....

 

[notjomommasclint]

I only bring up the packer throwing the punch because it is the same lack of respect that suh showed. if respect is the argument that fits directly into it. to me football should be 60+ minutes of violence followed by fellowship. what happens on the field is happening during a ramped up emotional time. some of the stories you read about what happens at the bottom of piles is far from socially acceptable behavior. thats just my point dont call a dude dirty because he has a few plays where he displays brutual aggression in a brutally aggressive game. dirty to me is a chop block on a linebacker, a clip on a stationary player, going under the facemask, going in low on a qb repeatedly. fighting has been and always will be part of the game...

the nfl tries to penalize hard hits now but when i was a kid i had a nice nfl vcr catalog of most violent hits i have ever seen.

 

[hive17]

I only bring up the packer throwing the punch because it is the same lack of respect that suh showed. if respect is the argument that fits directly into it. to me football should be 60+ minutes of violence followed by fellowship. what happens on the field is happening during a ramped up emotional time. some of the stories you read about what happens at the bottom of piles is far from socially acceptable behavior. thats just my point dont call a dude dirty because he has a few plays where he displays brutual aggression in a brutally aggressive game. dirty to me is a chop block on a linebacker, a clip on a stationary player, going under the facemask, going in low on a qb repeatedly. fighting has been and always will be part of the game...

the nfl tries to penalize hard hits now but when i was a kid i had a nice nfl vcr catalog of most violent hits i have ever seen.

What if I point out that the 60 minutes is only counted during the whistle and the stomp occured after the whistle? By your arguement Clint (and i'm only poking fun), the opposing defense should be able to run and jack someone up while they are standing in a huddle or while they are on the sidelines talking to the coach. Now, that might be funny, but it isn't the game as we know it.

 

[notjomommasclint]

What if I point out that the 60 minutes is only counted during the whistle and the stomp occured after the whistle? By your arguement Clint (and i'm only poking fun), the opposing defense should be able to run and jack someone up while they are standing in a huddle or while they are on the sidelines talking to the coach. Now, that might be funny, but it isn't the game as we know it.

You are 1,000% right. What suh did deserves punishment!!! And I won't disagree with that. I will disagree with the amount of attention it got and the way it was blown up like a Macy's day balloon. I'm a dolphins fan so I am all for players jacking folk up between plays since my team cannot do it during the play!