NL Cy Young- did Carpenter wrap it up tonight?

[craiger122003]

Lincy is good no doubt honestly its a crapshoot No matter how the vote goes you will have unbelievable stats to back it up and also to argue This year
will be a hard year for the voters I can't remember the last time it was this tight of a race

 

[markakis8]

MLB.tv...it's been a tremendous gift the past 3 years i've had it...

I'm sorry this is a nose-race to the finish. No one is the clear front-runner. It's amazing the Cardinals have two of the three candidates.

Honestly? Who gives a crap if Carpenter has missed 4 or 5 starts? Watching Timmy, Wainwright, and Carpenter pitcher the past two months, it is clear to me that Carpenter is the better of the 3. And the stats are not dramatically afar where Carpenter's absence is a factor.

All three have pitched extremely well and there is no lock. But as of right now it is Carpenter.

That could totally change in a week (to illustrate my point)

Just curious, how have you been watching Lincecum, Wainwright, and Carpenter pitch the past two months?

I've seen every single start of Waino and Carp's, but I haven't been able to watch a single start of Lincecum's.

I go by what I see of Waino and Carp, and to be honest, they're almost exactly the same. Wainwright just seems like more of a workhorse, and able to get out of any trouble he may occur, while Carpenter seems like a stopper who can almost always be relied on to go 7 IP, 2 ER. Lincecum, I honestly do not not know how he looks, but I can go off his stats and highlights, which tell me that he has been unbelievable.

 

[darocker80]

Yes everyone assumes because they got DeRosa/Holliday that they had them all year The Cardinals run support was anemic for the first 85 games

hmm because carpenter is like 11-0 in last 15 starts and wainwright had like 7 wins in a row after the all star break after the trades went down..hmm.

Before the all star break lincecum and cain were the leading candidates by far and both lead the league in wins

 

[darocker80]

Lincy is good no doubt honestly its a crapshoot No matter how the vote goes you will have unbelievable stats to back it up and also to argue This year
will be a hard year for the voters I can't remember the last time it was this tight of a race

give it to the giants, since all they have is pitching haha jk

 

[MacK]

Ah, awesome. Wish I could have jumped in on that when Jeff N. posted it as a free sign up earlier in the season.

MLB.tv...it's been a tremendous gift the past 3 years i've had it...

I'm sorry this is a nose-race to the finish. No one is the clear front-runner. It's amazing the Cardinals have two of the three candidates.

Honestly? Who gives a crap if Carpenter has missed 4 or 5 starts? Watching Timmy, Wainwright, and Carpenter pitcher the past two months, it is clear to me that Carpenter is the better of the 3. And the stats are not dramatically afar where Carpenter's absence is a factor.

All three have pitched extremely well and there is no lock. But as of right now it is Carpenter.

That could totally change in a week (to illustrate my point)

Just curious, how have you been watching Lincecum, Wainwright, and Carpenter pitch the past two months?

I've seen every single start of Waino and Carp's, but I haven't been able to watch a single start of Lincecum's.

I go by what I see of Waino and Carp, and to be honest, they're almost exactly the same. Wainwright just seems like more of a workhorse, and able to get out of any trouble he may occur, while Carpenter seems like a stopper who can almost always be relied on to go 7 IP, 2 ER. Lincecum, I honestly do not not know how he looks, but I can go off his stats and highlights, which tell me that he has been unbelievable.

 

[Super Mario]

I am kind of sad about this, but exstatic at the same time. I am sad because either Wano and Carp will deserve the CY Young award at the end of the season, but they are both going to cancel each other out and let it go to the less deserving 3rd place candidate. Just what happened with Rolen/Edmonds/Pujols in the MV3 years. They stole votes from each other.
But I am very happy because this is a GREAT problem to have. Having the top 2 CY Young candidates as our 1-2 punch is an awesome thing to have.
I want Wano to win it though, because Carp already got his in 05.
But yesterday just further proved that Carp, when healthy, is one of, if not THE best starting pitchers in all of MLB. Had he not had his stint on the DL early in the season, he would have a definitive edge over Wano I believe.
Great time to be a Cardinals fan.

 

[Billy Packer]

Carpenter's performance against the Brewers yesterday was one of the most dominating performances I've seen in a long time. It looked like no-hit stuff and the Brewers were lucky to get one hit against him. He gets my vote.

 

[MOFNY]

It's too bad Haren is on a lousy team. He is still leading in many important categories, but is having a rough second half. Personally, now, I think it's Lincecum's to lose. If Haren had a better record (sigh) he would be right up there as well.

 

[HoustonTeams4Me]

Having the top 2 CY Young candidates as our 1-2 punch is an awesome thing to have.
Great time to be a Cardinals fan.

Lincecum is on the Giants not the Cardinals, thus the Cards do not have the "top 2" Cy Young candidates (they have 2 in the top 3 though).

 

[Wes]

I'm surprised strikeouts haven't been mentioned as a factor in this debate. 100 extra strikeouts for Lincecum is sure to steal some votes, just as the three or four extra wins for the Cardinals' pitchers will.

 

[darocker80]

I'm surprised strikeouts haven't been mentioned as a factor in this debate. 100 extra strikeouts for Lincecum is sure to steal some votes, just as the three or four extra wins for the Cardinals' pitchers will.

Is anyone even at 200Ks yet in the MLB besides him?

 

[braden]

I'm surprised strikeouts haven't been mentioned as a factor in this debate. 100 extra strikeouts for Lincecum is sure to steal some votes, just as the three or four extra wins for the Cardinals' pitchers will.

Is anyone even at 200Ks yet in the MLB besides him?

Uh, yeah. Verlander's only 11 back. Grienke and Lester are over 200, as well. And Vazquez is at 199.

 

[markakis8]

greinke

I'm surprised strikeouts haven't been mentioned as a factor in this debate. 100 extra strikeouts for Lincecum is sure to steal some votes, just as the three or four extra wins for the Cardinals' pitchers will.

Is anyone even at 200Ks yet in the MLB besides him?

 

[darocker80]

oh ok, i haven't check in a while and i remember was lincecum was the only one.

greinke and felix are teh al guys?

 

[DRav87]

Time to analyze...

Here are the three front runners by the numbers:

Carpenter (24 starts): 16-3 (2nd), 2.16 ERA (1st), 129 K (26th), 0.97 WHIP (2nd)

Wainwright (29 starts): 17-7 (1st), 2.68 ERA (4th), 169 K (5th), 1.23 WHIP (16th)

Lincecum (28 starts): 13-5 (7th), 2.34 ERA (2nd), 233 K (1st), 1.02 WHIP (3rd)

Definitely a dead heat down the stretch; I'd still give it to Carpenter because of the Cards success, his comeback, and the fact that his WHIP and ERA are so impressive (provided he finishes strong).

While Dan Haren isn't going to win it this year because of the team he is on. I do believe he is going to take a few votes from these 3 guys. Here are his stats compared to the stats given above:

Haren (28 starts): 13-8 (7th), 2.78 (6th), 188 (4th), 0.95 (1st)

Also when you look at other stats here is how the 4 pitches compare:

Opponent Average
Lincecum - .207 (2nd)
Haren - .213 (3rd)
Carpenter - .219 (6th)
Wainwright - .245 (18th)

Winning Percentage
Carpenter - .842 (1st)
Lincecum - .722 (4th)
Wainwright - .708 (6th)
Haren - .619 (10th)

Walks Allowed
Wainwright - 59 (17th)
Lincecum - 55 (29th)
Haren - 30 (87th)
Carpenter - 30 (87th)

Complete Games
Lincecum - 4 (1st)
Carpenter - 3 (3rd)
Haren - 3 (3rd)
Wainwright - 1 (18th)

Shutouts
Lincecum - 2 (1st)
Carpenter - 1 (2nd)
Haren - 1 (2nd)
Wainwright - 0 (N/A)

Innings Pitched
Lincecum - 200.1 (1st)
Wainwright - 198 (2nd)
Haren - 194 (4th)
Carpenter - 166.2 (24th)

Hits Allowed
Wainwright - 184 (7th)
Haren - 154 (38th)
Lincecum - 150 (40th)
Carpenter - 131 (49th)

Not that any of these stats are weighed heavily when it comes to Cy Young voting but I just wanted to show how close these guys are. I just think Dan Haren's name need to be thrown in here as well but chances are he will finish 4th and mainly due to playing on a bad team with lack of run support.

I already said it once in this thread but I will say it again right now it is Lincecum's to lose.

 

[Wes]

Time to analyze...

Here are the three front runners by the numbers:

Carpenter (24 starts): 16-3 (2nd), 2.16 ERA (1st), 129 K (26th), 0.97 WHIP (2nd)

Wainwright (29 starts): 17-7 (1st), 2.68 ERA (4th), 169 K (5th), 1.23 WHIP (16th)

Lincecum (28 starts): 13-5 (7th), 2.34 ERA (2nd), 233 K (1st), 1.02 WHIP (3rd)

Definitely a dead heat down the stretch; I'd still give it to Carpenter because of the Cards success, his comeback, and the fact that his WHIP and ERA are so impressive (provided he finishes strong).

While Dan Haren isn't going to win it this year because of the team he is on. I do believe he is going to take a few votes from these 3 guys. Here are his stats compared to the stats given above:

Haren (28 starts): 13-8 (7th), 2.78 (6th), 188 (4th), 0.95 (1st)

Also when you look at other stats here is how the 4 pitches compare:

Opponent Average
Lincecum - .207 (2nd)
Haren - .213 (3rd)
Carpenter - .219 (6th)
Wainwright - .245 (18th)

Winning Percentage
Carpenter - .842 (1st)
Lincecum - .722 (4th)
Wainwright - .708 (6th)
Haren - .619 (10th)

Walks Allowed
Wainwright - 59 (17th)
Lincecum - 55 (29th)
Haren - 30 (87th)
Carpenter - 30 (87th)

Complete Games
Lincecum - 4 (1st)
Carpenter - 3 (3rd)
Haren - 3 (3rd)
Wainwright - 1 (18th)

Shutouts
Lincecum - 2 (1st)
Carpenter - 1 (2nd)
Haren - 1 (2nd)
Wainwright - 0 (N/A)

Innings Pitched
Lincecum - 200.1 (1st)
Wainwright - 198 (2nd)
Haren - 194 (4th)
Carpenter - 166.2 (24th)

Hits Allowed
Wainwright - 184 (7th)
Haren - 154 (38th)
Lincecum - 150 (40th)
Carpenter - 131 (49th)

Not that any of these stats are weighed heavily when it comes to Cy Young voting but I just wanted to show how close these guys are. I just think Dan Haren's name need to be thrown in here as well but chances are he will finish 4th and mainly due to playing on a bad team with lack of run support.

I already said it once in this thread but I will say it again right now it is Lincecum's to lose.

Innings pitched to me rules out Carpenter. Lincecum and Wainwright having been on the mound for their teams nearly 25% more is huge, the impact of their ERA's is thus far greater than Carpenter's.

 

[JEA2880]

Innings pitched to me rules out Carpenter. Lincecum and Wainwright having been on the mound for their teams nearly 25% more is huge, the impact of their ERA's is thus far greater than Carpenter's.

I disagree; if anything, Carpenter's numbers look better given the slightly fewer IP. Any bad outing would stand out much more with the smaller sample size, which shows he's been lights out in virtually every outing this year. It also makes his record that much more impressive, as a few more games might have given him 19 or 20 wins already in which case he'd be a lock.

 

[Wes]

Innings pitched to me rules out Carpenter. Lincecum and Wainwright having been on the mound for their teams nearly 25% more is huge, the impact of their ERA's is thus far greater than Carpenter's.

I disagree; if anything, Carpenter's numbers look better given the slightly fewer IP. Any bad outing would stand out much more with the smaller sample size, which shows he's been lights out in virtually every outing this year. It also makes his record that much more impressive, as a few more games might have given him 19 or 20 wins already in which case he'd be a lock.

A nice hypothetical but I doubt you'll be able to convince too many that a pitcher who has pitched less innings has had more of an impact than one who has pitched more. And 40 innings is really not slight by any measure.

 

[scotty21690]

This is what looked like last year, lincecum had great numbers, but the wins were iffy. He then had a hot streak and Brandon Webb ballooned his ERA (to over 3).

Anything can happen, and its neck and neck...and neck.

Giants better have not used up all their runs today.

And i can't believe lincecum has 8 starts where has given up 2 ER or less and didn't get the win...

Also how many innings CG does each pitche rhave. For some reason voters love the Shut outs, innings, cg and Ks

KERSHAW.

[13]

 

[Sly]

Innings pitched to me rules out Carpenter. Lincecum and Wainwright having been on the mound for their teams nearly 25% more is huge, the impact of their ERA's is thus far greater than Carpenter's.

I disagree; if anything, Carpenter's numbers look better given the slightly fewer IP. Any bad outing would stand out much more with the smaller sample size, which shows he's been lights out in virtually every outing this year. It also makes his record that much more impressive, as a few more games might have given him 19 or 20 wins already in which case he'd be a lock.

First, the difference in IP with Lincecum vs. Carpenter is not "slightly fewer". You're talking 34 IP, which assume minimum 7 IP per game, that is FIVE LESS starts.

And record means NOTHING. I mean, Lincecum has seven starts where he's given up 2 or less earned runs and gotten a no decision or a loss (Carpenter has 3).

And then you make it sound that Carpenter's numbers blow away Lincecum's...when they don't. Other than wins, Lincecum matches up just as good as Carpenter:

Carpenter vs. Lincecum:
2.16 vs. 2.34 ERA
0.97 vs. 1.02 WHIP
.219 vs. .207 BAA
7.07 vs. 6.74 H/9IP
1.62 vs. 2.50 BB/9IP
7.00 vs. 10.46 K/9IP

When numbers match up this closely, you're a fool to not think that a pitcher missing 5 starts won't be factored into voting.