NL Cy Young- did Carpenter wrap it up tonight?

[Thumpersports]

Innings pitched to me rules out Carpenter. Lincecum and Wainwright having been on the mound for their teams nearly 25% more is huge, the impact of their ERA's is thus far greater than Carpenter's.

I disagree; if anything, Carpenter's numbers look better given the slightly fewer IP. Any bad outing would stand out much more with the smaller sample size, which shows he's been lights out in virtually every outing this year. It also makes his record that much more impressive, as a few more games might have given him 19 or 20 wins already in which case he'd be a lock.

A nice hypothetical but I doubt you'll be able to convince too many that a pitcher who has pitched less innings has had more of an impact than one who has pitched more. And 40 innings is really not slight by any measure.

Im convinced.

You can keep saying Lincecum all night long but like I said earlier, if he doesnt get a few more wins and Carpenter does. Its OVER. No 19 or 20 win pitcher will lose to a 14-15 game winner if the other stats are equal.

I see Lincecum was scratched from tonights game, thats not a good start for getting more wins.

 

[darocker80]

Time to analyze...

Here are the three front runners by the numbers:

Carpenter (24 starts): 16-3 (2nd), 2.16 ERA (1st), 129 K (26th), 0.97 WHIP (2nd)

Wainwright (29 starts): 17-7 (1st), 2.68 ERA (4th), 169 K (5th), 1.23 WHIP (16th)

Lincecum (28 starts): 13-5 (7th), 2.34 ERA (2nd), 233 K (1st), 1.02 WHIP (3rd)

Definitely a dead heat down the stretch; I'd still give it to Carpenter because of the Cards success, his comeback, and the fact that his WHIP and ERA are so impressive (provided he finishes strong).

While Dan Haren isn't going to win it this year because of the team he is on. I do believe he is going to take a few votes from these 3 guys. Here are his stats compared to the stats given above:

Haren (28 starts): 13-8 (7th), 2.78 (6th), 188 (4th), 0.95 (1st)

Also when you look at other stats here is how the 4 pitches compare:

Opponent Average
Lincecum - .207 (2nd)
Haren - .213 (3rd)
Carpenter - .219 (6th)
Wainwright - .245 (18th)

Winning Percentage
Carpenter - .842 (1st)
Lincecum - .722 (4th)
Wainwright - .708 (6th)
Haren - .619 (10th)

Walks Allowed
Wainwright - 59 (17th)
Lincecum - 55 (29th)
Haren - 30 (87th)
Carpenter - 30 (87th)

Complete Games
Lincecum - 4 (1st)
Carpenter - 3 (3rd)
Haren - 3 (3rd)
Wainwright - 1 (18th)

Shutouts
Lincecum - 2 (1st)
Carpenter - 1 (2nd)
Haren - 1 (2nd)
Wainwright - 0 (N/A)

Innings Pitched
Lincecum - 200.1 (1st)
Wainwright - 198 (2nd)
Haren - 194 (4th)
Carpenter - 166.2 (24th)

Hits Allowed
Wainwright - 184 (7th)
Haren - 154 (38th)
Lincecum - 150 (40th)
Carpenter - 131 (49th)

Not that any of these stats are weighed heavily when it comes to Cy Young voting but I just wanted to show how close these guys are. I just think Dan Haren's name need to be thrown in here as well but chances are he will finish 4th and mainly due to playing on a bad team with lack of run support.

I already said it once in this thread but I will say it again right now it is Lincecum's to lose.

From those stats lincecum would get first

 

[Daltonb1219]

Stop comparing lincecum an Carp

like i said before Kevin Gregg is going to win the Cy

 

[Super Mario]

Lets just say this Lincecum injury turns out to be a bigger deal than thought, and Carp and Wano keep this up the rest of the season. First ever co-Cy Young Award Winners? That would be pretty boss. Unlikely, but would be awesome.

 

[Sly]

Lets just say this Lincecum injury turns out to be a bigger deal than thought, and Carp and Wano keep this up the rest of the season. First ever co-Cy Young Award Winners? That would be pretty boss. Unlikely, but would be awesome.

Actually wouldn't be the first co-winners...

1969 - Mike Cuellar and Denny McClain win the award.

 

[darocker80]

they say he'll be back in a 2-3 days...aka dodgers series start

 

[Super Mario]

Was that Co in the AL? I thought I had heard it had never been done in the NL before. I should have clarified.

 

[DRav87]

Outside of wins, I don't see where Wainwright even really gives Carpenter or Lincecum a challenge for the Cy Young. I think Wainwright will finish 3 in the voting.

 

[Sly]

Was that Co in the AL? I thought I had heard it had never been done in the NL before. I should have clarified.

In that case, you are correct. Yeah, the Co-Award was the AL...Cuellar with Baltimore and McClain with Detroit.

 

[darocker80]

Outside of wins, I don't see where Wainwright even really gives Carpenter or Lincecum a challenge for the Cy Young. I think Wainwright will finish 3 in the voting.

agreed, def didn't see him having this much success this year. what a year!

 

[Super Mario]

Wano`s success this season doesn`t surprise me one bit. I have known he was this good for a few years. He will win a Cy Young eventually. He has the nastiest curve ball in MLB and has since 2006. He is a bulldog.

 

[markakis8]

Carlos Beltran agrees.

He has the nastiest curve ball in MLB and has since 2006. He is a bulldog.

 

[Sly]

Carlos Beltran agrees.

He has the nastiest curve ball in MLB and has since 2006. He is a bulldog.

And I will NEVER forget where I was and saw that pitch...

...standing just inside the Harley Davidson cafe in Las Vegas...and my jaw dropped and how Beltran's knees buckled under that curveball. NASTY!!!!

 

[DRav87]

Carlos Beltran agrees.

He has the nastiest curve ball in MLB and has since 2006. He is a bulldog.

And I will NEVER forget where I was and saw that pitch...

...standing just inside the Harley Davidson cafe in Las Vegas...and my jaw dropped and how Beltran's knees buckled under that curveball. NASTY!!!!

Yeah I was watching it with my brother who is a HUGE Cardinals fan and I just couldn't believe it. He made Carlos Beltran look foolish.

 

[markakis8]

wow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4RpnGVC1BQ

Carlos Beltran agrees.

[quote="Sam Banks":2quzzqmi]He has the nastiest curve ball in MLB and has since 2006. He is a bulldog.

And I will NEVER forget where I was and saw that pitch...

...standing just inside the Harley Davidson cafe in Las Vegas...and my jaw dropped and how Beltran's knees buckled under that curveball. NASTY!!!!

Yeah I was watching it with my brother who is a HUGE Cardinals fan and I just couldn't believe it. He made Carlos Beltran look foolish.[/quote:2quzzqmi]

 

[JEA2880]

It's ridiculous how much bias is coming through this thread. We have Sam Banks and his Cardinals fans touting Carpenter while the Giants fans, led by darocker, are lauding Lincecum. It's pretty entertaining.

As an unbiased observer (Mets fan), I still like Carpenter. No one has mentioned that Carpenter's Cardinals are likely to finish with the best record in the NL, while the Giants will be playing until the last week of the season for their playoff lives. Whether you like it or not, team is a factor, and I think the 16-3 mark (.842 winning percentage) will prove to be especially impressive to voters. While I agree that a pitcher's W and L total is an overrated statistic, history has shown that the voters don't. I still deem him the current front runner, as I think the combination of the team he is on with the impressiveness of the record trumps the strikeout difference.

However, a lot can change in the next few weeks.

 

[Super Mario]

I am actually touting Wainwright for the award thank you very much,


I was laying in my living room floor watching the 06 NLCS nervous as **** when Beltran came up. FCB member mikieward10 was there, as well as another friend. Beltran comes up with the bases loaded, 2 outs, bottom 9, Mikie looks at me and says "I ******* hate you dude!" because I had been saying Beltran would hit a walk off homer to end the Cards season in the NLCS. My hands we dreanched with sweat. Beltran K`s rather foolishly to end the game. We all jump up and are going bat **** crazy. Me and Mikie go for a two handed over the head high 5 and my hands were so wet I slipped and hit him right in the nose very hard. Was hilarious. What a great night. That was bigger than the World Series for me honestly.

 

[JacobAlastra]

Thats cute.

I am actually touting Wainwright for the award thank you very much,


I was laying in my living room floor watching the 06 NLCS nervous as shat when Beltran came up. FCB member mikieward10 was there, as well as another friend. Beltran comes up with the bases loaded, 2 outs, bottom 9, Mikie looks at me and says "I fracking hate you dude!" because I had been saying Beltran would hit a walk off homer to end the Cards season in the NLCS. My hands we dreanched with sweat. Beltran K`s rather foolishly to end the game. We all jump up and are going bat shat crazy. Me and Mikie go for a two handed over the head high 5 and my hands were so wet I slipped and hit him right in the nose very hard. Was hilarious. What a great night. That was bigger than the World Series for me honestly.

 

[Sly]

It's ridiculous how much bias is coming through this thread. We have Sam Banks and his Cardinals fans touting Carpenter while the Giants fans, led by darocker, are lauding Lincecum. It's pretty entertaining.

As an unbiased observer (Mets fan), I still like Carpenter. No one has mentioned that Carpenter's Cardinals are likely to finish with the best record in the NL, while the Giants will be playing until the last week of the season for their playoff lives. Whether you like it or not, team is a factor, and I think the 16-3 mark (.842 winning percentage) will prove to be especially impressive to voters. While I agree that a pitcher's W and L total is an overrated statistic, history has shown that the voters don't. I still deem him the current front runner, as I think the combination of the team he is on with the impressiveness of the record trumps the strikeout difference.

However, a lot can change in the next few weeks.

Actually, I'm a Mariners fan, and have no bias towards any NL team.

And no, when it comes to the Cy Young, team is NOT a factor. In fact, two of the last three NL Cy Young winners were on fairly bad teams (sub-.500 - Lincecum in '08 and Webb in '06).

The Giants are in the midst of a Wild Card race, how is that any different than than the Cardinals in a playoff race. And how can you say that Carpenter has helped his team all year long, when he's missed 5 or so starts?? That's almost a FULL MONTH of playing time. And that WILL come into play.

 

[Anthony K.]

I am actually touting Wainwright for the award thank you very much,


I was laying in my living room floor watching the 06 NLCS nervous as **** when Beltran came up. FCB member mikieward10 was there, as well as another friend. Beltran comes up with the bases loaded, 2 outs, bottom 9, Mikie looks at me and says "I ******* hate you dude!" because I had been saying Beltran would hit a walk off homer to end the Cards season in the NLCS. My hands we dreanched with sweat. Beltran K`s rather foolishly to end the game. We all jump up and are going bat **** crazy. Me and Mikie go for a two handed over the head high 5 and my hands were so wet I slipped and hit him right in the nose very hard. Was hilarious. What a great night. That was bigger than the World Series for me honestly.

That was also the single greatest night in the HISTORY of the BMB.