NL ROY

[bigalexx]

im confused as to why people are using Happ being on a better team to hurt him in the voting. if anything, hes been a big contributor to them being a better team, hence his good record and low era.

+1.

 

[Brett Keith]

1 - J.A. Happ
2 - Randy Wells

Wells has nearly 50 more IP than Hanson, slightly lower WHIP, ERA lower by .25(2.90 to 3.15). It's Rookie Of The Year, prospect status has nothing to do with it. I made this same argument when people thought Delmon should have won over Pedroia.

 

[ThoseBackPages]

bleh pitchers.

'Cutch Hitting ROY

 

[Sly]

If being on a great team had anything to do with it, Happ should have 14-15 wins by now.

He's had 4 games where he's gone at least 6 innings and given up 2 runs or less. He has one other game where he went 7 and gave up 3. All of those...No Decisions.

Let's also consider one loss where he went 6 innings and gave up 2 runs. Or his most recent loss where he went 8 and gave up 3...only to get a loss.

How about his overall ERA in his 10 wins? 0.87.

How about his ERA against teams in his division?? 2.70 vs. ATL, 2.50 vs. NYM, 2.79 vs. WA, 1.00 vs. FLA.

Those are not numbers that the team you play with has ANY affect on. If you can pitch against other teams, it does not matter how good your current team is.

Happ's got Hanson covered easily in the ROY award.

I think runner up is a closer race between Hanson, Wells, McCutchen and Coghlan.

 

[EricInCT]

Cutch or Hanson would get my vote at this moment

Am I the only one who sees that cutch isn't the best rookie on his own TEAM ? :?

 

[EricInCT]

If being on a great team had anything to do with it, Happ should have 14-15 wins by now.

He's had 4 games where he's gone at least 6 innings and given up 2 runs or less. He has one other game where he went 7 and gave up 3. All of those...No Decisions.

Let's also consider one loss where he went 6 innings and gave up 2 runs. Or his most recent loss where he went 8 and gave up 3...only to get a loss.

How about his overall ERA in his 10 wins? 0.87.

How about his ERA against teams in his division?? 2.70 vs. ATL, 2.50 vs. NYM, 2.79 vs. WA, 1.00 vs. FLA.

Those are not numbers that the team you play with has ANY affect on. If you can pitch against other teams, it does not matter how good your current team is.

Happ's got Hanson covered easily in the ROY award.

I think runner up is a closer race between Hanson, Wells, McCutchen and Coghlan.

Not even the best rookie on his own team! ::facepalm:: I can't stress that enough.

Garrett Jones would bat .300 with 30 HRs and 30 SBs and run away with this thing if he had more time.

 

[pujolsjunkie]

If being on a great team had anything to do with it, Happ should have 14-15 wins by now.

He's had 4 games where he's gone at least 6 innings and given up 2 runs or less. He has one other game where he went 7 and gave up 3. All of those...No Decisions.

Let's also consider one loss where he went 6 innings and gave up 2 runs. Or his most recent loss where he went 8 and gave up 3...only to get a loss.

How about his overall ERA in his 10 wins? 0.87.

How about his ERA against teams in his division?? 2.70 vs. ATL, 2.50 vs. NYM, 2.79 vs. WA, 1.00 vs. FLA.

Those are not numbers that the team you play with has ANY affect on. If you can pitch against other teams, it does not matter how good your current team is.

Happ's got Hanson covered easily in the ROY award.

I think runner up is a closer race between Hanson, Wells, McCutchen and Coghlan.

Not even the best rookie on his own team! ::facepalm:: I can't stress that enough.

Garrett Jones would bat .300 with 30 HRs and 30 SBs and run away with this thing if he had more time.

So stupid.

 

[EricInCT]

If being on a great team had anything to do with it, Happ should have 14-15 wins by now.

He's had 4 games where he's gone at least 6 innings and given up 2 runs or less. He has one other game where he went 7 and gave up 3. All of those...No Decisions.

Let's also consider one loss where he went 6 innings and gave up 2 runs. Or his most recent loss where he went 8 and gave up 3...only to get a loss.

How about his overall ERA in his 10 wins? 0.87.

How about his ERA against teams in his division?? 2.70 vs. ATL, 2.50 vs. NYM, 2.79 vs. WA, 1.00 vs. FLA.

Those are not numbers that the team you play with has ANY affect on. If you can pitch against other teams, it does not matter how good your current team is.

Happ's got Hanson covered easily in the ROY award.

I think runner up is a closer race between Hanson, Wells, McCutchen and Coghlan.

Not even the best rookie on his own team! ::facepalm:: I can't stress that enough.

Garrett Jones would bat .300 with 30 HRs and 30 SBs and run away with this thing if he had more time.

So stupid.

LOL, thanks for the meaningless input ::facepalm:: I come to expect nothing less however

 

[Sly]

Cutch or Hanson would get my vote at this moment

Am I the only one who sees that cutch isn't the best rookie on his own TEAM ? :?

I can only assume you mean Jones...

...while Jones has better power numbers, but as an overall player, I think McCutchen is the better rookie on the team. Jones' RISP numbers are not impressive (.140 vs. .352 for Cutch).

It's hard to compare when Jones has 100 less at-bats, but I think McCutchen's made a bigger impact.

And if you're wanting to project out...look at their 162 game projections/averages...McCutchen has better numbers than Jones except homers.

 

[Sly]

If being on a great team had anything to do with it, Happ should have 14-15 wins by now.

He's had 4 games where he's gone at least 6 innings and given up 2 runs or less. He has one other game where he went 7 and gave up 3. All of those...No Decisions.

Let's also consider one loss where he went 6 innings and gave up 2 runs. Or his most recent loss where he went 8 and gave up 3...only to get a loss.

How about his overall ERA in his 10 wins? 0.87.

How about his ERA against teams in his division?? 2.70 vs. ATL, 2.50 vs. NYM, 2.79 vs. WA, 1.00 vs. FLA.

Those are not numbers that the team you play with has ANY affect on. If you can pitch against other teams, it does not matter how good your current team is.

Happ's got Hanson covered easily in the ROY award.

I think runner up is a closer race between Hanson, Wells, McCutchen and Coghlan.

Not even the best rookie on his own team! ::facepalm:: I can't stress that enough.

Garrett Jones would bat .300 with 30 HRs and 30 SBs and run away with this thing if he had more time.

Let me also add...this is a "Right Now" award, not a "What If" award...

It doesn't matter what Jones COULD do, it's a matter of what both are doing RIGHT NOW.

 

[EricInCT]

Cutch or Hanson would get my vote at this moment

Am I the only one who sees that cutch isn't the best rookie on his own TEAM ? :?

I can only assume you mean Jones...

...while Jones has better power numbers, but as an overall player, I think McCutchen is the better rookie on the team. Jones' RISP numbers are not impressive (.140 vs. .352 for Cutch).

It's hard to compare when Jones has 100 less at-bats, but I think McCutchen's made a bigger impact.

And if you're wanting to project out...look at their 162 game projections/averages...McCutchen has better numbers than Jones except homers.

I can't believe we are evening discussing this: Ok, let's see....

1) So now the rookie of the year is factored into who has made a bigger impact? If that was the case Hanson would be the runaway favorite, his team would be 7 back in the wild card race easily.

2) 600 at bats. Jones would smack 54 home runs at his present pace. Cutch would smack 22. don't need to go ANY farther. That alone would win the ROY going away. If you want to compare averages? Jones is better. Stolen Bases? 30 for cutch, 27 for Jones. Walks, RBIs? Advantage Jones.

Hello? Oh wait, Cutch has the bigger impact ::facepalm::

 

[mrwhitesox30]

1 - J.A. Happ
2 - Randy Wells

Wells has nearly 50 more IP than Hanson, slightly lower WHIP, ERA lower by .25(2.90 to 3.15). It's Rookie Of The Year, prospect status has nothing to do with it. I made this same argument when people thought Delmon should have won over Pedroia.

This is almost exactly what I was going to put. Wells would have a lot more wins if the Cubs ever scored when he pitched. I would still vote for Happ, though.

Can someone explain where all the Coghlan for ROY love is coming from? I haven't seen any Marlins games this year, so all I see are the stats, which I know are sometimes misleading. McCutchen and Jones both have more impressive stats than Coghlan.

 

[Sly]

Cutch or Hanson would get my vote at this moment

Am I the only one who sees that cutch isn't the best rookie on his own TEAM ? :?

I can only assume you mean Jones...

...while Jones has better power numbers, but as an overall player, I think McCutchen is the better rookie on the team. Jones' RISP numbers are not impressive (.140 vs. .352 for Cutch).

It's hard to compare when Jones has 100 less at-bats, but I think McCutchen's made a bigger impact.

And if you're wanting to project out...look at their 162 game projections/averages...McCutchen has better numbers than Jones except homers.

I can't believe we are evening discussing this: Ok, let's see....

1) So now the rookie of the year is factored into who has made a bigger impact? If that was the case Hanson would be the runaway favorite, his team would be 7 back in the wild card race easily.

2) 600 at bats. Jones would smack 54 home runs at his present pace. Cutch would smack 22. don't need to go ANY farther. That alone would win the ROY going away. If you want to compare averages? Jones is better. Stolen Bases? 30 for cutch, 27 for Jones. Walks, RBIs? Advantage Jones.

Hello? Oh wait, Cutch has the bigger impact ::facepalm::

So I guess basically what you're saying is that HR's and RBI's are all that matters in baseball?? Jones pace means NOTHING when it comes to the ROY Award. It is a "RIGHT NOW" award, not a "WHAT IF." And last I checked, this thread was about the NL ROY.

McCutchen has been around longer and has been making an impact on the team longer THIS SEASON.

Again, the RISP numbers for Jones are atrocious. Regarding RBI's, McCutchen is a lead-off hitter, he's not going to drive in a lot (nor hit for power). His job is to get on base (which he does), steal bases (which he does).

In the long run, Jones MAY BE the better player, but at this point in time, McCutchen has put up the better numbers on the team in regards to the ROY award, which is what this thread is about. All because McCutchen has been in the majors longer this year. Very, very, VERY seldomly would a player win an award for only half a seasons worth of stats.

 

[ThoseBackPages]

If being on a great team had anything to do with it, Happ should have 14-15 wins by now.

He's had 4 games where he's gone at least 6 innings and given up 2 runs or less. He has one other game where he went 7 and gave up 3. All of those...No Decisions.

Let's also consider one loss where he went 6 innings and gave up 2 runs. Or his most recent loss where he went 8 and gave up 3...only to get a loss.

How about his overall ERA in his 10 wins? 0.87.

How about his ERA against teams in his division?? 2.70 vs. ATL, 2.50 vs. NYM, 2.79 vs. WA, 1.00 vs. FLA.

Those are not numbers that the team you play with has ANY affect on. If you can pitch against other teams, it does not matter how good your current team is.

Happ's got Hanson covered easily in the ROY award.

I think runner up is a closer race between Hanson, Wells, McCutchen and Coghlan.

Not even the best rookie on his own team! ::facepalm:: I can't stress that enough.

Garrett Jones would bat .300 with 30 HRs and 30 SBs and run away with this thing if he had more time.

hes also 28 years old

 

[Brett Keith]

Garrett Jones has been great this year, but it's still a pretty small sample size, so talking about pace and projections over a whole season isn't a good idea. He's only played two months worth of baseball and here are the monthly breakdowns...

July - .310/.361/.700

AB - 100
H - 31
2B - 7
3B - 1
HR - 10
BB - 8
K - 17

August - .274/.358/.509

AB - 106
H - 29
2B - 7
3B - 0
HR - 6
BB - 14
K - 30

His numbers have dropped significantly in AVG and especially SLG, and his K's have gone up drastically. He's managed to keep his OBP about the same by upping his BB%. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd guess that based on his history, the August Garrett Jones is closer to who he really is, which is still a good player, but not what he would project out to be over a full season, the numbers are skewed because of the sample size.

 

[FromKoufaxtoEdwin]

Happ probably should win the award, but this will also most likely be his best season in the bigs. He really doesnt do any one thing particularly well (i.e strikeouts, ground balls, K-BB ratio), and his luck numbers really do tell the story. His BABIP is a ridiculously low .249 and will have to normalize eventually. He actually has the lowest BABIP of any starter in the major leagues this year. His left on base percentage is an enormously high 86%. Amazingly, he is also in first place in that category. Now, one might think that maybe Happ is so good that players make poor contact against him and that he "bears" down with runners on base. The truth is that no pitcher in the history of modern baseball has been able to maintain a BABIP under .270 and a LOB% of over 85%. It just doesnt happen. His fielding independent numbers are decent, with a FIP of 4.27 and a tRA of 4.83. He should be a decent mid to back-end rotation guy in the future, but he also might experience a regression season similar to Armando Galaragga (whose "great" season last year was driven mostly by luck, and this year the luck is not on his side).

 

[Lancemountain]

What bothers me about happ is he has 2 wins in relief and will have played on a team that has close to 100 wins.


His ERA better finish light years ahead of the competition to garner my vote.

So a worthless statistic like a win that occurred when the guy had no choice but to pitch in relief would affect your vote. Glad we don't have to worry about you actually having a vote.

:lol:

 

[EricInCT]

Garrett Jones has been great this year, but it's still a pretty small sample size, so talking about pace and projections over a whole season isn't a good idea. He's only played two months worth of baseball and here are the monthly breakdowns...

July - .310/.361/.700

AB - 100
H - 31
2B - 7
3B - 1
HR - 10
BB - 8
K - 17

August - .274/.358/.509

AB - 106
H - 29
2B - 7
3B - 0
HR - 6
BB - 14
K - 30

His numbers have dropped significantly in AVG and especially SLG, and his K's have gone up drastically. He's managed to keep his OBP about the same by upping his BB%. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd guess that based on his history, the August Garrett Jones is closer to who he really is, which is still a good player, but not what he would project out to be over a full season, the numbers are skewed because of the sample size.

Great analysis. However, since he has already 2 HRs and 3 RBIs two days into the month I guess that means nothing?

18 HRs is too small of a sample.....this guy is going to steal the ROY award from a pitcher......oh wait I forget Cutch has more impact :lol: :lol:

 

[Topnotchsy]

Happ probably should win the award, but this will also most likely be his best season in the bigs. He really doesnt do any one thing particularly well (i.e strikeouts, ground balls, K-BB ratio), and his luck numbers really do tell the story. His BABIP is a ridiculously low .249 and will have to normalize eventually. He actually has the lowest BABIP of any starter in the major leagues this year. His left on base percentage is an enormously high 86%. Amazingly, he is also in first place in that category. Now, one might think that maybe Happ is so good that players make poor contact against him and that he "bears" down with runners on base. The truth is that no pitcher in the history of modern baseball has been able to maintain a BABIP under .270 and a LOB% of over 85%. It just doesnt happen. His fielding independent numbers are decent, with a FIP of 4.27 and a tRA of 4.83. He should be a decent mid to back-end rotation guy in the future, but he also might experience a regression season similar to Armando Galaragga (whose "great" season last year was driven mostly by luck, and this year the luck is not on his side).

Great stuff!!

 

[Sly]

Garrett Jones has been great this year, but it's still a pretty small sample size, so talking about pace and projections over a whole season isn't a good idea. He's only played two months worth of baseball and here are the monthly breakdowns...

July - .310/.361/.700

AB - 100
H - 31
2B - 7
3B - 1
HR - 10
BB - 8
K - 17

August - .274/.358/.509

AB - 106
H - 29
2B - 7
3B - 0
HR - 6
BB - 14
K - 30

His numbers have dropped significantly in AVG and especially SLG, and his K's have gone up drastically. He's managed to keep his OBP about the same by upping his BB%. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd guess that based on his history, the August Garrett Jones is closer to who he really is, which is still a good player, but not what he would project out to be over a full season, the numbers are skewed because of the sample size.

Great analysis. However, since he has already 2 HRs and 3 RBIs two days into the month I guess that means nothing?

18 HRs is too small of a sample.....this guy is going to steal the ROY award from a pitcher......oh wait I forget Cutch has more impact :lol: :lol:

I will bet you he doesn't finish higher than 4th...