No more gold in the cards, just the love of the game

[cgilmo]

http://www.boston.com/yourtown/waltham/ ... _the_game/

Lester Goverman sees something very different these days in the people who come to his Framingham trading card shop. Investors have all but disappeared.

"There's no investors in this," said Goverman, 65, the owner of Framingham Sports Cards on Edgell Road. "I sell everything as a hobby. I will never tell anyone something's going to go up in value."

Given the obvious tilt of this board, I am sure many will disagree. Reading the article, it was funny to me that they took the opinion of one shop owner and stretched it across a world wide hobby.

Today, shop owners and others in the industry say the investors have all but gone, but the hobbyists and collectors - people who buy trading cards purely for fun and enjoyment - have been making a comeback.

Although I am not purely an investor, I do regularly buy cards as short term micro investments. I am sure many people are in the same boat.

 

[DaleMurphyCollector]

Seems like a well researched article.

 

[ChasHawk]

I am a dyed in the wool collector, but the fact that hobby store owners don't know there are still plenty of investors out there baffles me. These guys must not seel a lot of BC & Razor. What's the over/under for their price on a box of 08 BDP. $90?

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Good read. So many investors have left because its become too much work to make reasonable profit and/or have already lost their shirts!

Cards will always be for the regular or "little" guy.

 

[jbone17]

A Fair price for BDP over 70 is not fair lol.

 

[MOFNY]

Even though the prospectors comprise a large number here, I'm sure it's relatively obscure outside of the MBs. I was talking to co-workers about it, and they had absolutely no idea of the landscape. It was a lot of fun imparting wisdom.

 

[All The Hype]

This may be true in the 'real world', but I feel like on the internet, it seems that there are more prospectors and investors than ever before. I might be slightly biased here simply because this is the main forum that I choose to visit, but this isn't the only one that is home to investors.

I think the bottom line that makes baseball cards so cool and fun is the fact that they are worth something. They are valuable and generally hold that value, and also have the chance to go up in value. It IS an investment, even if the person knows that they are never going to sell their cards. It just makes it fun knowing that at any time, any card could shoot way up in value if a player was to hit 4 homers in a game or toss a no-hitter...even if you don't intend to sell.

 

[MOFNY]

This may be true in the 'real world', but I feel like on the internet, it seems that there are more prospectors and investors than ever before. I might be slightly biased here simply because this is the main forum that I choose to visit, but this isn't the only one that is home to investors.

I think the bottom line that makes baseball cards so cool and fun is the fact that they are worth something. They are valuable and generally hold that value, and also have the chance to go up in value. It IS an investment, even if the person knows that they are never going to sell their cards. It just makes it fun knowing that at any time, any card could shoot way up in value if a player was to hit 4 homers in a game or toss a no-hitter...even if you don't intend to sell.

In the real world I'm sure people only assume the Griffey RC or the Mantle found in the attic will bring in a profit. How many people outside of the prospect circle know that prospect RCs move dramatically in value? Hell how many people first learn of prospects when they appear on Sportscenter for the first time. I wonder when 'prospecting' will enter the popular lexicon just as rookie card has.

 

[flightposite]

That's pretty funny as I see it the exact opposite way.

 

[Craig - 21hawk]

That's pretty funny as I see it the exact opposite way.

You see everything the opposite way. That's why you buy high, sell low!



Craig

 

[flightposite]

That's pretty funny as I see it the exact opposite way.

You see everything the opposite way. That's why you buy high, sell low!



Craig

Hey now, i've been dominating for quite awhile now.

 

[AndruwHRJones]

http://www.boston.com/yourtown/waltham/articles/2009/03/08/no_more_gold_in_the_cards_just_the_love_of_the_game/

Lester Goverman sees something very different these days in the people who come to his Framingham trading card shop. Investors have all but disappeared.

"There's no investors in this," said Goverman, 65, the owner of Framingham Sports Cards on Edgell Road. "I sell everything as a hobby. I will never tell anyone something's going to go up in value."

I find it funny that this shop owner says this. I have been to his shop a number of times to buy supplies. He sells Bowman Chrome and some of the other prospector type products in hobby boxes and packs. However he doesn't seem to bust any of the product to sell singles or anything. His display cases are filled with vintage and rookies from 5 plus years ago. The shop mainly seems to be geared towards memorabilia and supplies. My guess is the hobby has passed this owner by and he is out of the loop. Just my opinion.

 

[Craig - 21hawk]

That's pretty funny as I see it the exact opposite way.

You see everything the opposite way. That's why you buy high, sell low!



Craig

Hey now, i've been dominating for quite awhile now.

Craig

 

[baseballguy350]

Nice to see that article has got some "national" attention with Chris picking it up!

Neil is the owner that I always deal with in Wayland, right on 27. Great guy, great shop.

 

[cgilmo]

Nice to see that article has got some "national" attention with Chris picking it up!

Neil is the owner that I always deal with in Wayland, right on 27. Great guy, great shop.

Chris Olds saw it before me.

I linked to it from the beckett blog.

 

[rainmanesq]

I think shop owners’ pov is a bit skewed. I spend thousands/month on cards (sometimes 10s of 1000s), but on average, 0/month is spent in shops, so yes, I suppose I fit into the ‘lack of investors in local shops,’ but does that mean I’ve stopped investing (in modern + vintage cards)? Not at all.

Why did I stop frequenting shops?

A. They rarely ever have cases until 1-2 weeks AFTER release- first to list gets the most $ generally, so if I wait for them, I’m already behind my competitors. When they do get cases in, it’s usually 1-2 and they want to open them + sell single boxes to customers.

B. Their box/case prices are atrocious- $90+/box for BC? Um, ok, direct cost is 47-51, ebay/other suppliers’ cost is just a little more, so yeah, I’ll pay a shop 2x more for a box.

C. Lack of selection- prospect wise + otherwise

D. Lack of fair prices- $50+ for a jersey that gets maybe $5 (if that) on eBay? Thanks, but no.

E. Shops let favored customers pack search- or worse yet, shops do it themselves. Same w/case searching. Yeah, I really want that 1 color ‘patch’ of who knows who that is while you keep ALWAYS getting the lucky/rare multicolored Kobe, MJ, etc. patch autos.

Yes, I realize shops have more overhead than joe, internet seller, but seriously, most shops’ pricing is WAY out of wack + there’s simply NO motivation (beyond ‘supporting local small biz’) to go there. I’m all for supporting local businesses, but when I bust 10-25+ cases of chrome, the economic realities (e.g., pay 500 or so/case v. the 900 or so/case from my card shop) just don’t make it feasible to spend any real amount of $ w/my shops.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

I think shop owners’ pov is a bit skewed. I spend thousands/month on cards (sometimes 10s of 1000s), but on average, 0/month is spent in shops, so yes, I suppose I fit into the ‘lack of investors in local shops,’ but does that mean I’ve stopped investing (in modern + vintage cards)? Not at all.

Why did I stop frequenting shops?

A. They rarely ever have cases until 1-2 weeks AFTER release- first to list gets the most $ generally, so if I wait for them, I’m already behind my competitors. When they do get cases in, it’s usually 1-2 and they want to open them + sell single boxes to customers.

B. Their box/case prices are atrocious- $90+/box for BC? Um, ok, direct cost is 47-51, ebay/other suppliers’ cost is just a little more, so yeah, I’ll pay a shop 2x more for a box.

C. Lack of selection- prospect wise + otherwise

D. Lack of fair prices- $50+ for a jersey that gets maybe $5 (if that) on eBay? Thanks, but no.

E. Shops let favored customers pack search- or worse yet, shops do it themselves. Same w/case searching. Yeah, I really want that 1 color ‘patch’ of who knows who that is while you keep ALWAYS getting the lucky/rare multicolored Kobe, MJ, etc. patch autos.

Yes, I realize shops have more overhead than joe, internet seller, but seriously, most shops’ pricing is WAY out of wack + there’s simply NO motivation (beyond ‘supporting local small biz’) to go there. I’m all for supporting local businesses, but when I bust 10-25+ cases of chrome, the economic realities (e.g., pay 500 or so/case v. the 900 or so/case from my card shop) just don’t make it feasible to spend any real amount of $ w/my shops.

This is exactly right. Investors don't buy from hobby shops, because it would be a bad investment.

 

[JVC]

I've been to all 3 of the card shops mentioned in the article within the past 3 months. Not one of the three deals in anything that most people would consider "investment worthy" today. They carry their fair share of stuff geared towards the local crowd, mid range wax, some vintage and a whole lotta jersey cards, cheap autos, etc. It's no surprise that they don't have investors coming through the door anymore. The days of people buying 1986 Bonds RC's as investments are over.

In Lester's case, I can see why he isn't keeping up to date with the most current products; he's selling his shop within the next year or so and will be retiring.

 

[cgilmo]

I think shop owners’ pov is a bit skewed. I spend thousands/month on cards (sometimes 10s of 1000s), but on average, 0/month is spent in shops, so yes, I suppose I fit into the ‘lack of investors in local shops,’ but does that mean I’ve stopped investing (in modern + vintage cards)? Not at all.

Why did I stop frequenting shops?

A. They rarely ever have cases until 1-2 weeks AFTER release- first to list gets the most $ generally, so if I wait for them, I’m already behind my competitors. When they do get cases in, it’s usually 1-2 and they want to open them + sell single boxes to customers.

B. Their box/case prices are atrocious- $90+/box for BC? Um, ok, direct cost is 47-51, ebay/other suppliers’ cost is just a little more, so yeah, I’ll pay a shop 2x more for a box.

C. Lack of selection- prospect wise + otherwise

D. Lack of fair prices- $50+ for a jersey that gets maybe $5 (if that) on eBay? Thanks, but no.

E. Shops let favored customers pack search- or worse yet, shops do it themselves. Same w/case searching. Yeah, I really want that 1 color ‘patch’ of who knows who that is while you keep ALWAYS getting the lucky/rare multicolored Kobe, MJ, etc. patch autos.

Yes, I realize shops have more overhead than joe, internet seller, but seriously, most shops’ pricing is WAY out of wack + there’s simply NO motivation (beyond ‘supporting local small biz’) to go there. I’m all for supporting local businesses, but when I bust 10-25+ cases of chrome, the economic realities (e.g., pay 500 or so/case v. the 900 or so/case from my card shop) just don’t make it feasible to spend any real amount of $ w/my shops.

This is exactly right. Investors don't buy from hobby shops, because it would be a bad investment.

Agree, although I do open some product at my local hobby shop. Sometimes I just wanna bust something without having to wait to get it. Although, I have never opened anything with delusions of "making my money back".

 

[jeremy]

back in the day ppl used to buy cases of 91 donruss as investments

now they buy like 2 boxes of bow chrome and a few singles

the shop owner is like oh well thats prob just for that dudes collecton