Opinion time re: future products.... FREE AUTOGRAPH PRIZES

[mchenrycards]

(a): should we make another Legends of the Diamond product?
if so, what ss hould minimum grade and years be? Lowering minimum grade allows more pre-war and bigger names.
also, what price point should we shoot for? Knowing that the worst hit is probably 25% of box factory cost.
any other suggestions?????

Yeah I think it might be a good idea.
Lowering grades would indeed help to provide pre-war cards as well as larger names to be included in this product. In terms of pre-war cards, I think there are many tobacco cards that grade a 1 or 2 that have great eye appeal. Lets face it, pulling an authentic Sam Crawford, Johnny Evers or even a Matty would be great especially if it had nice eye appeal and wasnt beat up.

Moving up to Goudey's and Play Balls I can see grades of 3's and 4's again with great eye appeal being out in this product. I used to have a 1934 Goudey Gehrig that would have graded a 2 but had great eye appeal. Pulling something like this from your product would be HUGE for most collectors.

Moving into more modern cards I can see grades of 5's. 6's and even 7's for 1948 and later cards. Price point might be hard to pinpoint on this product but it would depend on what kind of cards you are inserting. I good amount of pre-war would make many stand up and take notice!

(b): should we do another rookie retro????

Sure why not. It seems the first one went over well. Going to the well one more time will not hurt. I think the market can absorb more of this product at the price point you had. The only thing I can see is maybe concentrating more on vintage that modern.

 

[KC37]

I think a Legends set with the tiers that was mentioned would work very well. If there are more pre-war hits, then the same (or slightly lower) price point would be fine - of course, I didn't open any, so take that with what you will.

A second Rookie Retro would probably be dependent on what the chase cards would be - you've already put Strasburg and Heyward Superfractors in there, and with many other high-profile Supers locked in permanent collections, you may not have the draw for a second one.

 

[mgsherm]

(a): should we make another Legends of the Diamond product? Yes you shouldi
f so, what should minimum grade and years be? I would keep anything 1990 and up at 9 minimum, anything 1970-1990 a minimum 7, and anything prior to 1970 minimum 5.
also, what price point should we shoot for? Box Price max $100
any other suggestions????? 4 packs per box 2 cards per pack keep it to fan fovorites and all star caliber palyers

(b): should we do another rookie retro???? Not now, these type of sets should have a 3-5 year gap between realeases in order for a new crop of "rookies" to succeed without oversaturating the market with the same product year after year
if so, please provide suggestions that make this product more appealling- redemptions for player GU items (bats,hats,gloves etc..)
also, what is ideal price point knowing the worst card will be 25% of box factory cost????
any other suggestions????

 

[hofautos]

off topic, but how about doing inserts of ROOKIE BUYBACK AUTOS...those will really add a LOT to your product.
e.g. 1989 griffey buyback autos sell for $1000+

How about making a 1990 leaf frank thomas buyback auto...that would sell the hell out of your product...other examples


1990 Leaf sosa, walker, olerud
1990 griffey and randy johnson (even though not a rc, that card would be COOL).
1992 THOME LEAF (thome has ZERO rare rookies, I would pay big bucks for one of these)
1992 Jeff Kent and Pedro Martinez (they have very few signed cards and a potential hofer and a buyback rookie auto would be great!)



I HOPE YOU READ THIS AND REPLY?!!

 

[TBTwinsFan]

a)

Yes, I think it is an interesting product. Lowering grades is fine as long as we don't get a 1969 PSA 2 or something like that.

b)

I thought RRR was a great product, but there were too many duds. Maybe this time, insert some star RC autos (DNA or JSA) and things like that.

Just my thoughts I guess.

 

[AMAZIN HOF COLLECTOR]

I would like to see another Legends of the Diamond product but with the bigger names (thus lower grades). I would not mind a PSA3 Johhny Evers! I think with the older players, grades matter less. If you pull a Pujols RC PSA 8, your dissapointed as you know there are a ton of 8's, 9's, and even 10's. If you pull a PSA 6 Mays I believe there is less disappointment as grades are tough with the older cards. I hope I am making some sense...

 

[ChasHawk]

(a): should we make another Legends of the Diamond product? Yes you shouldi
f so, what should minimum grade and years be? I would keep anything 1990 and up at 9 minimum, anything 1970-1990 a minimum 7, and anything prior to 1970 minimum 5.
also, what price point should we shoot for? Box Price max $100
any other suggestions????? 4 packs per box 2 cards per pack keep it to fan fovorites and all star caliber palyers

It's a 1 slab per pack/box

 

[gt2590]

I feel a Legends of the Diamond would do well IF the SRP was under $100. I think that is still a "magic" number in the mind of high-end collectors. I haven't run a store in almost 2 years, so that may have changed, but I still think that is something to consider.

Also, since Slabbed autos would be the same weight, etc. as graded cards, they could be inserted randomly instead. Do some research, and I'm sure the members here could help, and find out who hasn't many certified or cut autos yet from the other companies, and do their autos. For instance, and I'm no expert, but ***** Leaguers, famous announcers, guys like that shouldn't be too hard to find. It might not even be that cost heavy, just more background-checking time.

I think the "lottery"-style chance of a High grade Vintage super card or "tough" auto for $100 would be just enticing enough to peak collectors' interest and their business.

Hope that helps...

 

[Guest]

BG,

You're missing a huge oppurtunity in my opinion as I told you in Baltimore.

1948 Leaf. Multi-sport with Ali. It's a simple design, easy to transfer photos to the artwork. Goes back to some of the iconic sets in the hobby.

There's so much you could do. Insert buybacks of '48 Leaf football, boxing, and baseball.

Cuts of players who were in '48 Leaf ... DiMaggio, Rizzuto, Musial, Jackie Robinson, Bobby Layne, Sid Luckman, Sammy Baugh, etc. etc.

It would blow everything else you've done to smithereens.

 

[Leaf]

why would they lower price and put better cards in????? This is just my opinion but if they do either of those it should be Raise price put better cards or lower price and keep the odds and value. Ofcourse we want it cheaper and better odds with better cards but if we want this hobby to last shouldnt we keep the companys on the upside. I dont want to just get a product and know what im getting i want low odds but if worst comes to worst not loose your ass on it just my opinion.

This is the challenge...
We can make cheaper boxes, but worst cards will be worse, i.e. a $100 factory cost box will have hits from $25 to $10,000.
In RRR, at time of packaging, factory cost was $200 .. worst hit was $50ish to best hit $20,000? (stras)...

The bigger and more plentiful the big hits, the more rocky the ride on average boxes...

Most collectors have asked for a smoother ride and and would prefer less huge hits and more even value...

???

BG

 

[Leaf]

BG,

You're missing a huge oppurtunity in my opinion as I told you in Baltimore.

1948 Leaf. Multi-sport with Ali. It's a simple design, easy to transfer photos to the artwork. Goes back to some of the iconic sets in the hobby.

There's so much you could do. Insert buybacks of '48 Leaf football, boxing, and baseball.

Cuts of players who were in '48 Leaf ... DiMaggio, Rizzuto, Musial, Jackie Robinson, Bobby Layne, Sid Luckman, Sammy Baugh, etc. etc.

It would blow everything else you've done to smithereens.

We are 100% doing somethihng like this... we are in discussions with MLBPA on a topic I am not free to dsicuss, but should have a clear picture in 15 days or so.... BG

 

[Russ S.]

A&B and keep it as is.

Thanks for the contest.

 

[mudflap02]

Rookie Retro was a neat product, but one of the big reasons I didn't buy any is that I only collect baseball. I generally open product hoping to get cards to keep, so just knowing that there were other sports in there made it a little too risky.

Legends of the Diamond was neat, but I agree with people saying that the minimum grades need to be as high as possible. If the cost is about the same, I would rather have a PSA 10 rookie of a minor star as opposed to a PSA 6 rookie of a more popular player.

 

[mudflap02]

BG,

You're missing a huge oppurtunity in my opinion as I told you in Baltimore.

1948 Leaf. Multi-sport with Ali. It's a simple design, easy to transfer photos to the artwork. Goes back to some of the iconic sets in the hobby.

There's so much you could do. Insert buybacks of '48 Leaf football, boxing, and baseball.

Cuts of players who were in '48 Leaf ... DiMaggio, Rizzuto, Musial, Jackie Robinson, Bobby Layne, Sid Luckman, Sammy Baugh, etc. etc.

It would blow everything else you've done to smithereens.

We are 100% doing somethihng like this... we are in discussions with MLBPA on a topic I am not free to dsicuss, but should have a clear picture in 15 days or so.... BG

I love your posts Brian. Is there ever a time at Leaf HQ where there isn't some sort of super secret project or lawsuit going on, details to follow shortly? Do you guys ever leave early on Fridays? I'm picturing a lot of noise and paper flying up in the air, with press conferences thrice daily.

 

[and JUSTICE for all]

I haven't been in the hobby for a while, but at the same time I think that helps, because some of the stuff mentioned is what drove me out.

I would do a Legends of the Diamond set, but I wouldn't do the rookie one. Leave the rookies to bowman, which has always and always will be top dog in that aspect of collecting. Instead, you could incorporate them INTO the LotD set. Why not have FUTURE LotD's in your set, and have graded rc's of guys like Strasburg, Heyward, Posey, etc. You could also do a graded subset of rc's of the past like ichiro, pujols, etc. Obviously, you wouldn't have to have all big dollar cards, but try not to water it down too much. You could do guys from the early 90's too. Obviously, most of that stuff isn't worth a ton... so that could help even out the price while still providing once star players. As for the grades, for modern stuff I wouldn't go below a 9. Nobody wants to pull a modern card that isn't even mint. Obviously for the older stuff, you can go lower. I'd say around a 4 or a 5. I also feel like the box should be n the 100-125 range. I feel like, for most people anyway, if they were willing to pay 100, they would probably pay 125 and that would allow you to increase the quality of the product.

 

[ChasHawk]

Rookie Retro was a neat product, but one of the big reasons I didn't buy any is that I only collect baseball. I generally open product hoping to get cards to keep, so just knowing that there were other sports in there made it a little too risky.

Legends of the Diamond was neat, but I agree with people saying that the minimum grades need to be as high as possible. If the cost is about the same, I would rather have a PSA 10 rookie of a minor star as opposed to a PSA 6 rookie of a more popular player.

LotD was not about rookies, it's about legends.

Wouldn't you want the minimum grade lowered for certain years so that more pre-war cards could be included?

 

[mudflap02]

Rookie Retro was a neat product, but one of the big reasons I didn't buy any is that I only collect baseball. I generally open product hoping to get cards to keep, so just knowing that there were other sports in there made it a little too risky.

Legends of the Diamond was neat, but I agree with people saying that the minimum grades need to be as high as possible. If the cost is about the same, I would rather have a PSA 10 rookie of a minor star as opposed to a PSA 6 rookie of a more popular player.

LotD was not about rookies, it's about legends.

Wouldn't you want the minimum grade lowered for certain years so that more pre-war cards could be included?

My mistake. I agree with the people who suggested tiered pricing. $100 a pack is definitely big number for a lot of collectors. How about 3 tiers of Legends, one at $50 SRP, one at $100 SRP, and one at $250 SRP. The reward would be proportional wth the risk. Also agree 100% with putting a label with the sport on the outside of the pack if you're going to have more than one sport.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

I am struggling with some recent emails I have received from consumers. Over the last 6 months, we have received well over 100 emails/calls requesting we do a Legends of the Diamond product (like Razor did) and maybe another 100 or so calls/emails asking us to do another rookie retro (like Razor did).

I had pretty much decided NOT to do any more of these products, however, now Distributors and dealers are asking for more products like this.

So, I am struggling with what to do. I learned some good lessons before about making these products less feast or famine, but want your feedback:

(a): should we make another Legends of the Diamond product?
if so, what should minimum grade and years be? Lowering minimum grade allows more pre-war and bigger names.
also, what price point should we shoot for? Knowing that the worst hit is probably 25% of box factory cost.
any other suggestions?????

(b): should we do another rookie retro????
if so, please provide suggestions that make this product more appealing without regard to price.....
also, what is ideal price point knowing the worst card will be 25% of box factory cost????
any other suggestions????

PLEASE keep comments constructive. I am not sold on the idea of doing either of these again, but want feedback from those who bought before or might buy them with changes.....
Regardless, no need to comment if you have never been or cannot foresee yourself buying these sorts of products under any condition...

BG

P.S.- 3 RANDOM POSTERS WILL GET AUTOGRAPHED PRIZES FOR PARTICIPATION....

BRian, I have not read the previous pages, so I apologize if there is duplication.

As for Rookie Retro, the concept in and of itself was fine. I liked the fact that you had a 60% or so ROI across the board. That being said, the downside of the product was the predictable "hit". Since you hand packed them, you had one pack per box that was the good one, and the rest, not so much. I would rather see you randomize them across the board -- if that means that one case that costs $1200 winds up with $8-10k worth of cards in it, and other cases wind up with $300.... that's the way it goes.

A few ideas are to use PSA?DNA certiifed RCs, so you get an auto RC... and perhaps more vintage stuff, so there's a more stable price coming out of the packs (the Strasburg hit when the stuff was being packaged surely didn't help).

Obviously, for rookie retro, you need another set of cards. I'm not sure what your options are other than prospects. Perhaps a shared licensing with ITG and just make base cards of a small group of players.


I think doing RRR again is a no brainer. Gave people a lot of chances to get something nice, and it was a LOT of fun.

I don't do auto-cuts, so I really don't have any insight there. Good luck.

 

[jbhofmann]

Just combine a.) and b.)

Do a two card pack.
1. PSA/DNA or JSA certified auto
2. PSA, BGS, or SGC graded RC

When you crack the master box a clue reveals what is inside similar to what Topps Sterling has done.

 

[goldenegg1]

I would love to see another Rookie Retro Product.
I would do it by sport though, and gauging by the hits from the last product I would do 50% of the entire run baseball, 25% Football, 15% Hockey, and 10% Basketball. I would make the packaging like the Sterling, you open the pack, and then you know what sport you have.
For example, if I open a pack and I see Basketball, I would be more apt to sell it knowing that the chances of getting a Jordan rookie is pretty good, since only 15% of the product is Basketball. Not sure if I make any sense here.