Opinion time re: future products.... FREE AUTOGRAPH PRIZES

[Tomlinson21RB]

why would they lower price and put better cards in????? This is just my opinion but if they do either of those it should be Raise price put better cards or lower price and keep the odds and value. Ofcourse we want it cheaper and better odds with better cards but if we want this hobby to last shouldnt we keep the companys on the upside. I dont want to just get a product and know what im getting i want low odds but if worst comes to worst not loose your ass on it just my opinion.

This is the challenge...
We can make cheaper boxes, but worst cards will be worse, i.e. a $100 factory cost box will have hits from $25 to $10,000.
In RRR, at time of packaging, factory cost was $200 .. worst hit was $50ish to best hit $20,000? (stras)...

The bigger and more plentiful the big hits, the more rocky the ride on average boxes...

Most collectors have asked for a smoother ride and and would prefer less huge hits and more even value...

???

BG

The issue I see is the % of the total cost that in just one hit (Strasburg). Is better to have two $5000 hits, 3 $2000 hits, and 4 $1000 hits vs. one $20000 hit? Obviously you need some chase cards, but would the product benefit more from better cost distribution than one monster hit? If 9 people get $1000+ hits instead of duds, it is 8 more happy people than the one person that pulled the strasburg and the 8 that essentially paid for that persons hit.

 

[RITM]

The thing that stood out was that each case had the obvious "hit" box. This is a good thing if you bought an entire case, not so much if you were buying a box in that the dealer could find the hit and sell the rest off. I know the system of balances might sound great but I would think that more collectors would want it set up where there could be more than one hit box per case. If one case has a ton of hits then so be it.

As pointed out the fact that the PSA/BGS slabs could be detected is a factor as well. Try to figure out a way to balance it out.

 

[wickedliquids]

a): should we make another Legends of the Diamond product? Yes
if so, what should minimum grade and years be? PSA 3 or SGC 40 on Pre-War (also keep in mind the players - a Keeler PSA3 is more valuable than a Strange - Also factor in backs; again, a Lennox back is far more valuable than a Piedmont back. PSA 3)

also, what price point should we shoot for? Knowing that the worst hit is probably 25% of box factory cost. Price point should be somewhere in the $50 to $75.

any other suggestions????? Include the rare backs as the "hits?" Would love a chance at a Victory back, Pirate back, or a real CB, Hindu, Lennox back....or make the major hit a Ty Cobb with Ty Cobb back hehehe :mrgreen:

(b): should we do another rookie retro???? Sure, why not.

if so, please provide suggestions that make this product more appealing without regard to price.....More rookie cards of vintage players; PSA 10's or SGC 96's are nice, but you know what? A sharp looking Nolan Ryan or Pete Rose at a 7 or 8 isn't bad.

also, what is ideal price point knowing the worst card will be 25% of box factory cost???? Price point wise, the $200+ price tag met the "risk vs reward" criteria for me and I went with risk and passed. Price point-wise, i suggest $100 to $150, but no more.

 

[daveyou]

(b): should we do another rookie retro???? Hell Yeah
if so, please provide suggestions that make this product more appealing without regard to price.....i honestly liked retro as a break. the only thing would be to add some type of a "case hit" per case and instead of 6 boxes, do 10 boxes per case. i loved the 4-5 sport inclusion as well. yeah, the dupes though per case that we saw out of a 6 box case wasn't too thrilling but if you can make it half bgs and half psa/sgc with at least 30% to 50%+ being autos, i think it can work. checklist is, of course, important and last year's checklist (high end stuff) was very nice! vintage and modern mixture was just perfect. include some slabbed cut autos from upper deck, btw! again, i think retro was a great product and i'll def. be interested in it for 2011
also, what is ideal price point knowing the worst card will be 25% of box factory cost????
any other suggestions????.....price per pack in the 150-200 is good as long as the duds aren't too...dud-y? man, that colby rasmus bgs 8.5....i shutter to think....lol!!

dave

 

[danimal]

(a): should we make another Legends of the Diamond product? Yes - I don't think there should be a minimum grade, for example I have a 1933 Goudey Lou Gehrig PSA 1 and that is a $400-$500 card, so just because something is graded low doesn't mean the card is bad, but maybe putting a minimum grade on the newer vintage would be ok. I would thing $200 would be a good cost [ /b]
if so, what should minimum grade and years be? Lowering minimum grade allows more pre-war and bigger names.
also, what price point should we shoot for? Knowing that the worst hit is probably 25% of box factory cost.
any other suggestions?????

(b): should we do another rookie retro???? Yes, I really liked it, as was mentioned earlier I was not a fan of the way last years were packed out where each case would have 1 good card and then 5 $50 cards. If you pulled the big hit in the 1st box what was the point in opening the rest since we all knew each box after the big hit was a $150 loser, so something like hot cases would be fun. If you are going to put Leaf cards in as fillers have a bigger checklist, I have 20 Tanner Shepards autos right now. And maybe sprinkling in some Retired autos or a base set serial numbered to 99
if so, please provide suggestions that make this product more appealing without regard to price.....
also, what is ideal price point knowing the worst card will be 25% of box factory cost????
any other suggestions????

 

[Leaf]

BG,

You're missing a huge oppurtunity in my opinion as I told you in Baltimore.

1948 Leaf. Multi-sport with Ali. It's a simple design, easy to transfer photos to the artwork. Goes back to some of the iconic sets in the hobby.

There's so much you could do. Insert buybacks of '48 Leaf football, boxing, and baseball.

Cuts of players who were in '48 Leaf ... DiMaggio, Rizzuto, Musial, Jackie Robinson, Bobby Layne, Sid Luckman, Sammy Baugh, etc. etc.

It would blow everything else you've done to smithereens.

We are 100% doing somethihng like this... we are in discussions with MLBPA on a topic I am not free to dsicuss, but should have a clear picture in 15 days or so.... BG

I love your posts Brian. Is there ever a time at Leaf HQ where there isn't some sort of super secret project or lawsuit going on, details to follow shortly? Do you guys ever leave early on Fridays? I'm picturing a lot of noise and paper flying up in the air, with press conferences thrice daily.

LOL... I can say we have made MLBPA an offer to avoid what will be lengthy litigation.
They have a deadline rapidly approaching, hopefully for the hobby's sake, they show good rasoning in their next step.
BG

 

[dano7]

I'd love to see the Legends of the Diamond come out. Pre-war grade 5 and tobacco cards at grade 3.
DANNY

 

[pootshwan]

(a): should we make another Legends of the Diamond product? Yes
if so, what should minimum grade and years be? Lowering minimum grade allows more pre-war and bigger names. Minimum grade for cards before 1980 should be a 3, after 1981-1993 should be NM-MT 8. 1994-present should be no less than a Mint 9
also, what price point should we shoot for? Knowing that the worst hit is probably 25% of box factory cost. $180


(b): should we do another rookie retro???? No

 

[hofautos]

BG,
Are you avoiding my post or did you miss it?

how about doing inserts of ROOKIE BUYBACK AUTOS...those will really add a LOT to your product.
e.g. 1989 griffey buyback autos sell for $1000+

How about making a 1990 leaf frank thomas buyback auto...that would sell the hell out of your product...other examples


1990 Leaf sosa, walker, olerud
1990 griffey and randy johnson (even though not a rc, that card would be COOL).
1992 THOME LEAF (thome has ZERO rare rookies, I would pay big bucks for one of these)
1992 Jeff Kent and Pedro Martinez (they have very few signed cards and a potential hofer and a buyback rookie auto would be great!)



I HOPE YOU READ THIS AND REPLY?!!

 

[Tedw9]

I am struggling with some recent emails I have received from consumers. Over the last 6 months, we have received well over 100 emails/calls requesting we do a Legends of the Diamond product (like Razor did) and maybe another 100 or so calls/emails asking us to do another rookie retro (like Razor did).

I had pretty much decided NOT to do any more of these products, however, now Distributors and dealers are asking for more products like this.

So, I am struggling with what to do. I learned some good lessons before about making these products less feast or famine, but want your feedback:

(a): should we make another Legends of the Diamond product?
if so, what should minimum grade and years be? Lowering minimum grade allows more pre-war and bigger names.
also, what price point should we shoot for? Knowing that the worst hit is probably 25% of box factory cost.
any other suggestions?????

Yes you should, Legends boxes always sell well. As far as a minimum grade, don't have one, but keep it reasonable depending on the year. Put in big hits, but don't put in a PSA 1 1968 Hank Aaron. But I know I would be over the moon to pull a legit vintage Babe Ruth Goudey, even if it was a PSA 1. Like someone else said, do a tier theme, bronze, silver and gold. And I really like the idea of inserting vintage graded packs randomly. I would think a $100-150 range should sell ok. You want to keep it at a point where MOST collectors can afford it, don't price it only for the high rollers. I don't buy much newer product, but in that range, I would probably take a chance on a box just for the thrill.

(b): should we do another rookie retro????
if so, please provide suggestions that make this product more appealing without regard to price.....
also, what is ideal price point knowing the worst card will be 25% of box factory cost????
any other suggestions????

You could throw a curve ball with this product by having inserted autographed/slabbed rookies. Maybe even a few vintage signed rookies with one BIG fish out there, say a Mantle or Mays. I'm actually not crazy about the rookie retro myself, there are plenty of packs left out there to be opened with those rookies in them. Price range? I would say $75-100 a box would be about right.

 

[wickedliquids]

I forgot to add a suggestion and reading some of the replies jarred my memory; I know this would be limited due to availability, but what about themed years as well that could yield an un-opened pack from that year? How awesome would that be? You open a box of razor, the theme is 1969, you get a graded card and a chance at an un-opened Topps pack from the same year?

If you put in 1988 Topps, I'm buying a case! ::facepalm::

In all seriousness, I thought it would be pimp to bust a box and the theme is 1910 - you probably couldn't put in old cigarette packs, but maybe a mock box and it has 3 mid grade raw T206's, T215's, T205's, or some E series...now that would be pretty darn cool. I'd probably faint if I pulled a mock box of Hindu or Lenox

 

[James52411]

Both products seem pretty solid to me and should be brought back at similar price points. Smoothing out the value per case makes sense too.

Legends of the Game should include tobacco cards dating back to the 19th century. If low grades are necessary then so be it. Most people I know love hitting old pre-WWI cards in a pack and aren't too concerned with condition. People aren't going to complain about a low grade copy of a tobacco card so long as it has strong value.

You might also consider including a PSA, BGS, or SGC graded card of a classic Leaf issue in each pack. It would eliminate the pack searching issue and build on your company's name in each pack. Make sure that there is at least one $75+ Leaf graded card in each case, since you don't want people thinking that all the old Leaf cards are a bunch of junk. If you don't want to do the 2 cards per case, then at least make sure each case has a reasonably high value Leaf hit. Don't go cheap on the Leaf hits, as you want people to be jazzed or at least reasonably happy whenever they hit a Leaf card.

 

[emarc27]

If there is demand for another Legends on the Diamond then it should definitely be made. The minimum grade should depend on the era the card is from. Naturally, pre-war cards should have a lower minimum grade than modern cards. Personally, I don't know much about pre war cards being graded so I can't suggest what would be a good minimum grade, but for more modern stuff, maybe 8.5+. Just a suggestion. Also I see $75-$125 as a good price range.

Also a definite YES to rookie retro. The only real way to make this more appealing would be to simply get a large amount of good cards as opposed to having one or two chase cards (like the Strasbourg 1/1 for example) and having the other cards be far below the price of a box.

 

[Leaf]

BG,
Are you avoiding my post or did you miss it?

how about doing inserts of ROOKIE BUYBACK AUTOS...those will really add a LOT to your product.
e.g. 1989 griffey buyback autos sell for $1000+

How about making a 1990 leaf frank thomas buyback auto...that would sell the hell out of your product...other examples


1990 Leaf sosa, walker, olerud
1990 griffey and randy johnson (even though not a rc, that card would be COOL).
1992 THOME LEAF (thome has ZERO rare rookies, I would pay big bucks for one of these)
1992 Jeff Kent and Pedro Martinez (they have very few signed cards and a potential hofer and a buyback rookie auto would be great!)



I HOPE YOU READ THIS AND REPLY?!!

No.. didnt miss it... just been swamped....

I am VERY onboard with this...
Thinking about execution... BG

 

[hive17]

I thought Retro Rookies was a GREAT product. I often wondered why it had to be ONLY rookies in the graded cards. I mean, beside that being the name of the product. There are plenty of great cards out there that I wouldn't mind as "filler" with awesome PSA grades or something. 1991 Topps Desert Storm varients come to mind. 1993 Topps Finest refractors is another good one. Donruss Crusades?

Actually, I think I just talked myself into a better idea: why not have a "Retro Inserts" release. Some of the greatest inserts and chase cards either graded or encapsulated. You'd get some hum-dingers in the Crusades and Finest refractors, but you could also get some classic GU or auto insert sets graded as well.

At that point, you could probably keep the price point the saem, or take it down a notch without the inclusion of the really expensive vintage.

 

[jbhofmann]

Leaf Rookie Retro featuring a Leaf Satchel Paige RC :!:

 

[Johnny B]

(a): should we make another Legends of the Diamond product? Yes, I thought it was a nice product.
if so, what should minimum grade and years be? Lowering minimum grade allows more pre-war and bigger names. I would be willing to accept lower grade cards of pre-war, even as low as 4's, if the player selection was good.
also, what price point should we shoot for? Knowing that the worst hit is probably 25% of box factory cost.
any other suggestions????? Anywhere under $200. Autographed pre-war would be sweet.

(b): should we do another rookie retro???? I didn't open any of this, but some people seem to really like this. I'd rather see another Legends of the Diamond.
if so, please provide suggestions that make this product more appealing without regard to price..... More vintage

 

[BunchOBull]

Legends of the Diamond is a definite yes...I support any product that gives buyers a legitimate shot at nice vintage material.

The Rookie Retro set with a Leaf Signature Edition insert set is a huge opportunity though. Like Mike said, an auto buyback style set would be highly received. I would like to see the buybacks stamped as such though. A nice foil "Retro Signings" stamp, much the way Donruss had "Recollection." Only Leaf cards though...

While the Thomas is obvious, in terms of modern offerings, Maddux would be a huge addition as well.

 

[hofautos]

BG,
Are you avoiding my post or did you miss it?

how about doing inserts of ROOKIE BUYBACK AUTOS...those will really add a LOT to your product.
e.g. 1989 griffey buyback autos sell for $1000+

How about making a 1990 leaf frank thomas buyback auto...that would sell the hell out of your product...other examples


1990 Leaf sosa, walker, olerud
1990 griffey and randy johnson (even though not a rc, that card would be COOL).
1992 THOME LEAF (thome has ZERO rare rookies, I would pay big bucks for one of these)
1992 Jeff Kent and Pedro Martinez (they have very few signed cards and a potential hofer and a buyback rookie auto would be great!)



I HOPE YOU READ THIS AND REPLY?!!

No.. didnt miss it... just been swamped....

I am VERY onboard with this...
Thinking about execution... BG

cool...add a 1987 Leaf Maddux buyback auto as well...that should prove really popular!

 

[jlyles]

I'm not sure on the Legends of the Diamond as I didn't open any, but I really really think Rookie Retro should be brought back. The only thing, though, is that how much different can you really make the product? You already did it once, wouldn't a second series be extremely similar to the first (if you're getting the types of cards that everyone liked from the first)? I think the price on those were a little high, but I didn't pull a huge card like others did. I really liked the product.