PEDs, Steroids and the Hall of Fame

[Krom]

That's a pretty black and white statement.

Steroids are and will still be viewed as a negative against a player's record even if ARod does manage to get elected. I'd add that even if ARod does get elected, it certainly won't be on the first ballot.

I disagree and am arguing that the "black and white" issue will fade into total grayness. It is already happening and if you can't see that, you're blind. 5 years ago these threads were 85-90 percent "NO CHEATERS IN THE HALL!!!" What's the vibe now? What will be in 5-10 years when the feigned morality erodes further?

Bonds is a lock for the Hall.

No way Bonds (or Arod) makes the Hall, ever. It doesn't matter what we (these boards) think, it never has. Just look at Shoeless Joe, He performed well in the series but still will forever be denied. Juicers will never make it in for a ton of reasons besides the fact that cheaters are not good role models. One of the major reasons would be Tainted stats.
The other side can argue as much as they want but the would have to change the minds of the voters, not me or any web site. Also the comparison of steroids with things like greenies and such is crazy. There is a huge difference between taking something that is like strong coffee that wears of in a day and something that builds and repairs muscle and helps with endurance and other things.

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

No way Bonds (or Arod) makes the Hall, ever. It doesn't matter what we (these boards) think, it never has. Just look at Shoeless Joe, He performed well in the series but still will forever be denied. Juicers will never make it in for a ton of reasons besides the fact that cheaters are not good role models. One of the major reasons would be Tainted stats.
The other side can argue as much as they want but the would have to change the minds of the voters, not me or any web site. Also the comparison of steroids with things like greenies and such is crazy. There is a huge difference between taking something that is like strong coffee that wears of in a day and something that builds and repairs muscle and helps with endurance and other things.

The criminal difference that is constantly overlooked in cases of comparison is that regardless of Shoeless Joe's performance in the World Series, he was kicked out of baseball. Done. Gone. For good. Therefore he is not eligible for induction until either the HOF changes their rules or that MLB reinstates him posthumously. Same could be said for Rose.

Bonds, ARod, etc. were not only never kicked out of baseball, neither was ever suspended, and neither signed a dotted line accepting that fate.

That is a huge difference.

And to think that Bonds "never" gets into the Hall of Fame would mean one thing...the HOF closes its doors.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

But also don't forget that TJ and Lasik aren't likely to kill you, there is also a strong safety element here. While the safety of the players may or may not be moot depending on your point of view, certain PEDs are illegal because its bad public policy to make them otherwise.

Steriods aren't likely to kill you either. HGH, even less-so. And if MLB were about players "safety", tobacco would be banned in the game as well, as there are greater losses due to tobacco than anything else. So I'm not going to buy the "safety" arguement. I agree that MLB should set some standards to be the role models to prevent kids from stunting their bodies.

But to act like the MLB is actually worried about safety is a smoke-screen at best. They were just reacting to popular opinion, and that popular opinion had MUCH more to do with the "sanctity" of the game.

Hmm. http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/infofacts/steroids-anabolic-androgenic
http://kidshealth.org/kid/stay_healthy/fit/steroids.html

I didn't say they were safe. I said that the whole "safety" arguement is BS. And I noticed you ignored my tobacco point. Hmm.

I don't care about tobacco because people already know about its ills and people use it for non-athletic purposes. Fact is that there are too many bad things to try to regulate, never mind enforce. Its great MLB is attempting to regulate the most serious of them.

The current labor contract has this provision:
"Players, managers and coaches may not use smokeless tobacco products during televised interviews and may not carry them in their uniforms."

 

[RL24]

Great discussion. I love when people bring up that steroids were illegal and against the rules. I don't get that. Everybody in the world knew McGwire and Sosa were on steroids. And when Barry Bonds showed up to spring training with 50 extra pounds of muscle, everybody knew exactly how the transformation took place.

If that stuff was against the rules, why didn't anything happen to them? There was a rule, but no consequence for breaking it? That's not much of a rule, more of a guideline... and if it was so illegal... where were the cops?

Baseball's problem is that the MLBPA has all of the power. When steroids were banned in baseball, the MLBPA fought it and would not allow steroid testing. They continued to fight it until 2003. They agreed that if x% of players failed the test, then testing could begin. Whether it is true or not, the MLBPA was said to have told players when they were going to be testing so that they could cycle off and test clean. Like I said, I do not have proof of that, you can find articles about it if you want to read about it.

I truly do not believe that the MLBPA expected over 100 players to fail because they still did not want testing.

Oh, I know about all of that. I was there! I was just addressing something I read earlier in the thread...

in my opinion I believe anyone using an illegal drug and was caught or confess they should be banned from the hall. Taking steroids or any other substance that is illegal

So I'm wondering... if everybody knew Bonds was on steroids, and they were illegal, how come nobody arrested him? And there really was a flimsy rule in place in baseball about not taking steroids way before 2003, some people point to that as a reason why the juicers should were cheating and should be banished.




I think they should allow HGH and steroids in MLB. It makes the game more exciting! As much as it costs to see a game these days, I don't want to see regular old players out there. There is big money to be made, so the work put into these drugs will be tremendous. These are the drugs that will allow humans to live to be 125. And allow a guy to hit 125 hrs! :lol: It's a win-win!

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

The criminal difference that is constantly overlooked in cases of comparison is that regardless of Shoeless Joe's performance in the World Series, he was kicked out of baseball. Done. Gone. For good. Therefore he is not eligible for induction until either the HOF changes their rules or that MLB reinstates him posthumously. Same could be said for Rose.

Bonds, ARod, etc. were not only never kicked out of baseball, neither was ever suspended, and neither signed a dotted line accepting that fate.

That is a huge difference.

And to think that Bonds "never" gets into the Hall of Fame would mean one thing...the HOF closes its doors.

There's a sign on every clubhouse door proclaiming baseball's absolute number one rule: DO NOT BET ON BASEBALL .

As bad as PEDs are, gambling is worse; players know this. Its very interesting to read about how gambling affected baseball one hundred years ago, puts things into perspective.