Player Profile: Sadaharu Oh (Greatest Player of All-Time?)

[uniquebaseballcards]

Technically:
"Oh is the son of a Chinese father and a Japanese mother and was born in , Tokyo, Japan. He had Japanese citizenship when he was born because Taiwan, his father's home, was part of the Empire of Japan. After the end of World War II, control of Taiwan was given to the Republic of China . Taiwanese people were converted from Japanese citizenship to ROC citizenship. Until January of 1985 the children of a Japanese father inherited Japanese citizenship, but if the father was not Japanese, the child was not Japanese. This changed on January 1 1985. This was a big problem for Oh as a youth: he speaks and has lived in Japan all his life. He and his three daughters hold Republic of China passports."

This is relevant IMO because it is generally well-known how much importance the Japanese place on citizenship. Didn't mean to take away/digress from the rest of the story.

Oh was Chinese. He was born in Japan but he was born a Chinese citizen.

Now, to try to address some of the points brought up. "Oh isn't great because his defense wasn't solid."

On what are you basing this? Back it up with numbers.

"Oh doesn't deserve to even be in this conversation."

Why not? Realize that Oh put up these impressive numbers in much shorter Japanese League seasons.

"Oh could have played in the US and chose not to."

This is dubious at best. Name ten Oriental players from 1959-1980 in the MLB. The problem is that Orientals were greatly discriminated against in America until WELL after the end of the Vietnam War.

Holding the league against Oh is unfair. He had little choice in the matter. Sure, it is possible he would have come here and sucked. It is equally possible that he could have come here and been legendary. Discounting facts because of conjecture is just a little strange.

My whole point is that there are great players that deserve to be in this conversation that we never even consider.

 

[justinmandawg]

A rug is Oriental.

A person is Asian.

 

[Therion]

A rug is Oriental.

A person is Asian.

Excuse me. I forgot to consult with the Politically Correct Terminology Dictionary before making responses. Hopefully I won't fail your high standards in the future.

Thanks for contributing something valuable to the discussion.

 

[soccerman034]

Great read as always Therion. Can I make a suggestion on your next player spotlight? Oscar Charleston. The dude is consider my many knowledgeable baseball historians as one of the top 10 players to ever play the game, and yet, he is hardly ever recognized.

 

[subject to change]

Just to expand on a couple of my earlier points, I don't discount that Oh's achievements are undoubtedly the best among Japanese baseball, and certainly present statistical benchmarks that will likely never be reached. He is certainly among the legends of the game, and may be one of the greatest power hitters of all time.

With that said, we largely base our analysis and comparison of players and teams from various eras, rightly or wrongly, upon statistical data. Based upon numbers alone, Oh's achievements are mind blowing, namely his career HR total and the HR/AB number you cited. We will never have the opportunity to see how a Babe Ruth would perform against modern day pitching, or how Walter Johnson's fastball would match up against modern day hitters, so we turn to statistical data to make these comparisons. Obviously some people, like Bill James, have made a career out of breaking down and analyzing this data. In looking at this data, we must keep in mind various evolutions in the game and traits of various periods. Deadball era numbers are viewed differently from liveball era numbers, just as 80's numbers are being viewed differently from the 'chicks dig the longball' era of the 90/00's. Similarly, we must view the level of competition and talent in the NBL within the context of the overall development of Japanese baseball. During Oh's first season in the NBL, the league was only 9 years old, and presumably at a lower overall rate of development and talent than are currently seen in the league.

A quick google search turned up these two links appear to be pretty interesting and worthwhile reads concerning Oh's numbers relative to MLB during the same period.
http://baseballguru.com/jalbright/analysisjalbright13.html
http://baseballguru.com/jalbright/analysisjalbright14.html

The second link in particular offers some very interesting translations of Oh's numbers into MLB equivalent statistics. Going by these statistics, Oh is a lock for the HOF, but seems to fall short of being in the discussion of 'greatest player of all time.' Of course, as you said, we will never know for sure how a Satchel Paige, Oh, or Josh Gibson would have performed had they been allowed to play in the majors, making the entire discussion incredibly subjective. But that's what makes it so fun to debate, isn't it? :lol: Keep up the great writing Therion!

 

[jarcar]

Awesome read and I love reading the different opinions of people and the debate.

In my opinion Oh has to be considered an all time great. Was he the greatest ever? I don't think so, but he has to be in the discussion just like Gibson, they were the best ever in their respective leagues.

 

[Therion]

Awesome read and I love reading the different opinions of people and the debate.

In my opinion Oh has to be considered an all time great. Was he the greatest ever? I don't think so, but he has to be in the discussion just like Gibson, they were the best ever in their respective leagues.

And now that this has been up for almost a day I will admit that I do not truly believe Oh to be the greatest player ever. But your last sentence was what I was wanting people to realize.

Thanks to everyone that actually contributed something. (So pretty much everyone except one toolbox with a grudge against me)

subject to change, great post. I don't disagree with much in it.

Thank you all for the great conversation on Oh. I hope future profiles will garner as much debate.