Question for anyone with knowledge of BGS/Law system.

[BGSRCGUY]

Quick story short, I sold a card that was a BGS 9 Mint card. The Slab had damage from shipment from BGS(I noted this in my auction, corner showed some white frosting). The buyer, then attempted to send the card, in the BGS 9 slab, to beckett for fixing. Beckett, then notified the buyer of said card that there was damage to the card inside the sealed slab and that it would not receive the same grade as on the slab, and that the buyer should take this up with the original seller(I have yet to confirm this with beckett, but will likely be calling them on monday). The buyer, now expects me months later to refund him the full purchase price of the card. He is threatening legal action, and has sent me emails claiming that beckett claims it is my fault. I simply told him, that I sold a card in a slab that was graded by Beckett as mint. I told him there was zero possible way that I could open the card and damage it and reseal it.


What is my move here? I don't feel I should refund the guy. Am I legally in the wrong here? He has told me his "lawyer" is going to be contacting me, in which I responded with my contact information so that I can hear the lawyers argument.


Any advice is appreciated.

 

[muchuckwagon]

How much did the buyer pay for the card? Are we talking about $10, $50 or $200....?

You have nothing to worry about.....if months have passed, who is to say the buyer didn't tamper with the slab or it didn't incur addition damage when the buyer shipped it to BGS? Have you seen a recent scan of the slab? If you believe the buyer, issue a refund in the amount that you feel is appropriate from a customer service standpoint and condition of the card.

Otherwise, ignore the buyer and his "lawyer"....wacko buyers tend to stalk sellers for some period of time and eventually fade away.

 

[BGSRCGUY]

How much did the buyer pay for the card? Are we talking about $10, $50 or $200....?

You have nothing to worry about.....if months have passed, who is to say the buyer didn't tamper with the slab or it didn't incur addition damage when the buyer shipped it to BGS? Have you seen a recent scan of the slab? If you believe the buyer, issue a refund in the amount that you feel is appropriate from a customer service standpoint and condition of the card.

Otherwise, ignore the buyer and his "lawyer"....wacko buyers tend to stalk sellers for some period of time and eventually fade away.

It was for 75. And it was on the 1st of Feb. I just asked him if he sent it in the slab or in raw. I still have no clue how bgs says it won't get the same grade unless they damaged it while sealing it, I personally didn't see anything but who knows. I do know it was a strong BGS 9 10 10 9.5 8.5 and .5 away from gem, so maybe hes angry that it didn't bump for him.

 

[muchuckwagon]

It was for 75. And it was on the 1st of Feb. I just asked him if he sent it in the slab or in raw.

That is chump change....only give him a refund if you feel it is the "right" thing to do once you review all the facts. Otherwise, he is just being an internet bully and blowing off steam.....hoping to scare you into refunding his money.

 

[thegreathambino]

email this guy

[email protected]

tell him the story, and see what he says.

 

[G $MONEY$]

any updates on this?

 

[BGSRCGUY]

I ended up refunding him because I thought it best for customer service record.

 

[BGSRCGUY]

New update, I offered the refund to this guy, decided it was best, however now he wants a full refund before he sends the item back. His argument being that I know more about him than he knows about me?

 

[Philip J. Fry]

New update, I offered the refund to this guy, decided it was best, however now he wants a full refund before he sends the item back. His argument being that I know more about him than he knows about me?

Tell him to send the card first before you refund. Or, do half up front then the other half when the card arrives. Who says he won't keep the card after getting a refund?

 

[BGSRCGUY]

New update, I offered the refund to this guy, decided it was best, however now he wants a full refund before he sends the item back. His argument being that I know more about him than he knows about me?

Tell him to send the card first before you refund. Or, do half up front then the other half when the card arrives. Who says he won't keep the card after getting a refund?

I did, he says im confused about my rights as a seller and his rights as a buyer. I asked him to show me any online store that refunds before receiving the item back. He then told me his word is better than mine. I am about fed up with him and thinking of ignoring him, I offered to refund him when I spoke to a friend who is a lawyer who told me there was no chance i was liable. He is now threatening to go to ebay, in which I requested he do so, so they can tell him the exact thing I told him. By the way it has been close to 90 days since auction ended. A long time, which also makes me wonder.

 

[andyduke86]

I highly doubt he has any real legal ground to stand on. Tell him to have his "lawyer" contact you. I mean seriously, who threatens legal actions for a $75 card? You really shouldn't give in to buyers who are basically trying to get something for nothing from you.

 

[BGSRCGUY]

I highly doubt he has any real legal ground to stand on. Tell him to have his "lawyer" contact you. I mean seriously, who threatens legal actions for a $75 card? You really shouldn't give in to buyers who are basically trying to get something for nothing from you.

Yup, Thats my next step to have him contact my friend who indeed is a Lawyer. If he gets any more demanding will go that route.

 

[Card Magnet]

I would be surprised if this buyer would get a lawyer for a $75 card. More than likely, that's just a hollow threat to try and get what he wants. Unless he has a friend or family member who might do it for him for free (or pretend to be a lawyer and just call).

Did you have a return policy listed with the card? If he's out of that, then as they saying goes - "Tough ***** said the kitty when the milk went dry".

Although technically PayerPal will say you have no right to a return policy. You must accept returns no questions asked. They ask the buyer to send a confirmation number on the return shipment, and refund when it is delivered. They don't ask you if you have received the actual item back or not. PayPal is dirty like that, and I would love to bash their heads against the wall. So much for "Seller Protection".

BUT if it has been over 45 days (which of course it has), then it's too late for a PayPal claim. See above saying.

Beckett should be the ones to deal with it, but I'm sure they won't. That's also assuming that what he said about BGS was true. There's always the possibility that he damaged the card trying to crack it out of the case or something. Not saying he's lying, just looking at both sides.

 

[BGSRCGUY]

I would be surprised if this buyer would get a lawyer for a $75 card. More than likely, that's just a hollow threat to try and get what he wants. Unless he has a friend or family member who might do it for him for free (or pretend to be a lawyer and just call).

Did you have a return policy listed with the card? If he's out of that, then as they saying goes - "Tough ***** said the kitty when the milk went dry".

Although technically PayerPal will say you have no right to a return policy. You must accept returns no questions asked. They ask the buyer to send a confirmation number on the return shipment, and refund when it is delivered. They don't ask you if you have received the actual item back or not. PayPal is dirty like that, and I would love to bash their heads against the wall. So much for "Seller Protection".

BUT if it has been over 45 days (which of course it has), then it's too late for a PayPal claim. See above saying.

Beckett should be the ones to deal with it, but I'm sure they won't. That's also assuming that what he said about BGS was true. There's always the possibility that he damaged the card trying to crack it out of the case or something. Not saying he's lying, just looking at both sides.

Jeff- thanks for the opinions. I wouldn't mind buying from you=).

I did offer him a refund, he wasn't charged anything as it wasn't reslabbed and they simply told him it wouldn't or might not get a 9. The damage to the case was a simple frosting, if you check a lot of cases this is a common problem, because of the way BGS ship's cards packed tightly together. I just about got fed up when he told me, not asked, but told me I had to refund him first, because my word wasn't as good as his. BTW this is a new ebay user, while I have been around for a while with very good feedback/powerseller status. I still offered to refund him if he ships the card back to me but have not received a response. My friend, who is a lawyer, has already told me if he starts bothering or using the threat of a Lawyer that I can refer him to him. He has assured me I am in no way liable for this mishaps. I did note in my auction that the case was frosted(i did not try to sell it without making a giant note about it).

Card- I only sell graded cards on that account, and thus tell people I do not accept returns because I sell based on what the Third Party has deemed the card. I made a special exception for him. It has been almost 80 days, before he had said anything. He showed me the emails with beckett, he had a conversation with someone not associated with the grading portion of BGS, which was weird but I took it for what its worth(i guess his minor league club has something in the works with BGS so he has a special guy). I didn't ask the guy I go through at BGS if any of this was true, because i had already deemed it right to refund. I just got bothered when he tried to tell me his word was better than mine, and argue that its his right to get a refund before returning merchandise. I have never seen any store, online or brick and mortar, handle refunds this way. Usually they have to send the item back and then a refund is processed.

If there is indeed damage inside the slab, BGS will be hearing from me when I get the card back. How they put the blame on me is a Joke, do they really think I could damage the card inside the plastic case and then the plastic sleeve? I love how they took no responsibility and passed it on to the seller.

 

[BGSRCGUY]

Its ALWAYS your reputation as a seller on the line when on ebay. Whether the persons new or not makes no difference ,,,, always treat them the same as you would treat long time ebayers,,,,,,,,,,not every newbie is really new as people know,,,,,

Just refund the buyer and be done with the whole deal,,,, and drop the "personal" feelings from the discussions,,,,, while a seller may personally feel a buyer is a nutcase, a thief, whatever= that plays NO part in the steps that seller take to get their product back and solve their buyers issues,,,,,,,

Deal with it, absorb the hit, learn from the issues that occurred , and work on getting them fixed properly in the future,,,,,if it means retooling auction descriptions, return policies, grading order receipts--whatever-- just do it,,,, what lazy will get people is money torn their pocket on a regular basis,,,, and who wants that????

Frosting by the way I am familiar with as I do plenty of bulks like you do,,,,, unless its major league == the buyer had a responsibility to ask BEFORE they bid or purchased if a BIN,,,,,,,,,,its why in my auctions there is specific instructions about asking questions BEFORE they even make a move,,,,its also why I was VERY interested to see the auction description / auction setup,,,,,,,,

By the way Jeff-- I stand by what I sell 100% whether I want to or not,,,, unless its over $100 I do not even argue I have my buyers just send it back and refund them product purchase price & return shipping costs,,,,, I may even tell them to keep the card if its $10 & under ,,,, I have been known with certain buyers to require returning the item so I can file a claim,,,, all depends on what was shipped,,,,case by case basis,,,,,,

Selling is not easy,,,, requires a lot of work as you know and no issue is cut and dried,,,,,

Me

I offered a refund, he does not want to send the card back though. Wants a full refund before he does so. I am not saying he is a scam artist, but I am weary refunding a guy the amount before I have my card back. I told him refund would occur same day, he didn't care because his "word" was better than mine.

 

[Card Magnet]

Its ALWAYS your reputation as a seller on the line when on ebay. Whether the persons new or not makes no difference ,,,, always treat them the same as you would treat long time ebayers,,,,,,,,,,not every newbie is really new as people know,,,,,

Just refund the buyer and be done with the whole deal,,,, and drop the "personal" feelings from the discussions,,,,, while a seller may personally feel a buyer is a nutcase, a thief, whatever= that plays NO part in the steps that seller take to get their product back and solve their buyers issues,,,,,,,

Deal with it, absorb the hit, learn from the issues that occurred , and work on getting them fixed properly in the future,,,,,if it means retooling auction descriptions, return policies, grading order receipts--whatever-- just do it,,,, what lazy will get people is money torn their pocket on a regular basis,,,, and who wants that????

Frosting by the way I am familiar with as I do plenty of bulks like you do,,,,, unless its major league == the buyer had a responsibility to ask BEFORE they bid or purchased if a BIN,,,,,,,,,,its why in my auctions there is specific instructions about asking questions BEFORE they even make a move,,,,its also why I was VERY interested to see the auction description / auction setup,,,,,,,,

By the way Jeff-- I stand by what I sell 100% whether I want to or not,,,, unless its over $100 I do not even argue I have my buyers just send it back and refund them product purchase price & return shipping costs,,,,, I may even tell them to keep the card if its $10 & under ,,,, I have been known with certain buyers to require returning the item so I can file a claim,,,, all depends on what was shipped,,,,case by case basis,,,,,,

Selling is not easy,,,, requires a lot of work as you know and no issue is cut and dried,,,,,

Me

I offered a refund, he does not want to send the card back though. Wants a full refund before he does so. I am not saying he is a scam artist, but I am weary refunding a guy the amount before I have my card back. I told him refund would occur same day, he didn't care because his "word" was better than mine.

In no way should the buyer ever get a refund before sending something back in my opinion.

By the way - the buyer can't put a negative on your eBay anymore, correct?

 

[BGSRCGUY]

Its ALWAYS your reputation as a seller on the line when on ebay. Whether the persons new or not makes no difference ,,,, always treat them the same as you would treat long time ebayers,,,,,,,,,,not every newbie is really new as people know,,,,,

Just refund the buyer and be done with the whole deal,,,, and drop the "personal" feelings from the discussions,,,,, while a seller may personally feel a buyer is a nutcase, a thief, whatever= that plays NO part in the steps that seller take to get their product back and solve their buyers issues,,,,,,,

Deal with it, absorb the hit, learn from the issues that occurred , and work on getting them fixed properly in the future,,,,,if it means retooling auction descriptions, return policies, grading order receipts--whatever-- just do it,,,, what lazy will get people is money torn their pocket on a regular basis,,,, and who wants that????

Frosting by the way I am familiar with as I do plenty of bulks like you do,,,,, unless its major league == the buyer had a responsibility to ask BEFORE they bid or purchased if a BIN,,,,,,,,,,its why in my auctions there is specific instructions about asking questions BEFORE they even make a move,,,,its also why I was VERY interested to see the auction description / auction setup,,,,,,,,

By the way Jeff-- I stand by what I sell 100% whether I want to or not,,,, unless its over $100 I do not even argue I have my buyers just send it back and refund them product purchase price & return shipping costs,,,,, I may even tell them to keep the card if its $10 & under ,,,, I have been known with certain buyers to require returning the item so I can file a claim,,,, all depends on what was shipped,,,,case by case basis,,,,,,

Selling is not easy,,,, requires a lot of work as you know and no issue is cut and dried,,,,,

Me

I offered a refund, he does not want to send the card back though. Wants a full refund before he does so. I am not saying he is a scam artist, but I am weary refunding a guy the amount before I have my card back. I told him refund would occur same day, he didn't care because his "word" was better than mine.

In no way should the buyer ever get a refund before sending something back in my opinion.

By the way - the buyer can't put a negative on your eBay anymore, correct?

I am not sure on the negative. I told him refund would happen day I get my card back but he still won't budge.

 

[dfr52]

it seems like you have done everything right. I wonder if the buyer has other reasons for not sending first.

 

[Philip J. Fry]

It's like getting a refund at a walk-in store. You don't go to the service counter without the merchandise you're returning to get a refund, so why do buyers think getting a refund online is any different?

I forgot to add, when you buy from Amazon or Wal-Mart online, they make you return the merchandise before issuing a refund. It's just common sense!

 

[BGSRCGUY]

He sent card back, I ended up refunding him. Thanks to Jeff, for offering to deal with this guy. He eventually realized that you cannot simply expect a refund without merchandise being returned.