RRR Rant

[justinmandawg]

Where the hell does this sense of entitlement come from for people busting Razor Rookie Retro? The amount of people pissed off because they didn't make their money back is sickening. Aside from 2010 Bowman with the Heyward and Stras show me one product that has the ROI that RRR boast.
Ranting bitchfest over.

Not that I disagree with your point but there are several products that have a positive ROI every year if you break multiple cases.

Not every year. Maybe most years but 2008 bc says no.

 

[insdeck09]

while i agree with everyone on here...and the fact that RRR is new type of product, which i give razor all credit for...there is 1 glaring misconception...not everyone is pay $1200 per case (blowout cards pricing)...some people are going to a brick and mortar store and paying a lot more...i have friend that owns a store...he gets from a distributor instead of direct..which is 7% more...then he has to add taxes which in NJ is another 7% and then his profit...in the end?? case pricing is now $1600+

i did one case thru him and while i was told i got good value, about 1000....@1600 per case, that's a tough break...still better then other cases though...and i'm not complaining...i just wish everyone would understand that not everyone is breaking blowout cases...and while breaking is a gamble...no one like to lose...i think that is why you see all the complaining....

Not to argue w/ you but: He could have purchased direct from Razor for the 1200 if he had called them or emailed before it sold out. Also he doesn't have to pay taxes, his customers pay taxes. A business never pays taxes it's their customers that do when the pricing is made w/ the idea that the do pay the sales tax. So he could have easily paid 1200 w/ no tax on the purchase and only charged your state's sales tax.

i guess you're aren't too familiar with a card store as a business...ordering direct means prepaying months and months in advance...and while some people think it's glorious...affording having that type of money tied up for that long is tough business decision, especially during the summer months when things are slow....so while direct is saving 7% from a distributor such as sports images etc...it's tough to keep that money tied up....also everything is regulated on how much you can order...and then you HAVE to go to a distributor, which means you are paying more as well...so now he's 7% above blowout, then he has to charge sales tax which is 7% in NJ, because at the end of the year he has to pay tax on the money that came into the store...and he has to add profit...keeping in mind he has a lot more overhead then blowout...ex. rent, electric, etc....that's the cost of owning a store....he has a ton of breakers coming in and paying those prices for the wax....i was simply pointing out that it's not 1200 a case for everyone....trust me, you have no idea what goes into owning a card store...it's tough, and most don't last...and you don't make a lot of money, so floating direct order prepays is not as easy as you think or say....

 

[justinmandawg]

while i agree with everyone on here...and the fact that RRR is new type of product, which i give razor all credit for...there is 1 glaring misconception...not everyone is pay $1200 per case (blowout cards pricing)...some people are going to a brick and mortar store and paying a lot more...i have friend that owns a store...he gets from a distributor instead of direct..which is 7% more...then he has to add taxes which in NJ is another 7% and then his profit...in the end?? case pricing is now $1600+

i did one case thru him and while i was told i got good value, about 1000....@1600 per case, that's a tough break...still better then other cases though...and i'm not complaining...i just wish everyone would understand that not everyone is breaking blowout cases...and while breaking is a gamble...no one like to lose...i think that is why you see all the complaining....

Not to argue w/ you but: He could have purchased direct from Razor for the 1200 if he had called them or emailed before it sold out. Also he doesn't have to pay taxes, his customers pay taxes. A business never pays taxes it's their customers that do when the pricing is made w/ the idea that the do pay the sales tax. So he could have easily paid 1200 w/ no tax on the purchase and only charged your state's sales tax.

i guess you're aren't too familiar with a card store as a business...ordering direct means prepaying months and months in advance...and while some people think it's glorious...affording having that type of money tied up for that long is tough business decision, especially during the summer months when things are slow....so while direct is saving 7% from a distributor such as sports images etc...it's tough to keep that money tied up....also everything is regulated on how much you can order...and then you HAVE to go to a distributor, which means you are paying more as well...so now he's 7% above blowout, then he has to charge sales tax which is 7% in NJ, because at the end of the year he has to pay tax on the money that came into the store...and he has to add profit...keeping in mind he has a lot more overhead then blowout...ex. rent, electric, etc....that's the cost of owning a store....he has a ton of breakers coming in and paying those prices for the wax....i was simply pointing out that it's not 1200 a case for everyone....trust me, you have no idea what goes into owning a card store...it's tough, and most don't last...and you don't make a lot of money, so floating direct order prepays is not as easy as you think or say....

Why pay 7% to blowout when he can get it direct and pay the week of release? I've ordered hundreds of cases and know how it's done. Set aside the sales tax as people pay it and don't spend it, problem solved. His cost could be 1200 but he's apparently he'd rather pay more.

Of course I have no idea what I'm talking about. Your understanding of business is overwhelming. Everything doesn't need an ellipsis. Do you do that to be smug?

 

[brouthercard]

why aren't there any topps sterling rants every year?

$225 for one pack usually yielding about $40 worth of cards.

I'll take RRR every day over topps sterling. oh, and triple threads as well, which can be nasty - $180 a pack for $30 worth of cards.

At least with RRR you get a recognizable rookie card, not a sticker auto of over-done mlb vets with multiple parallels and false scarcity.

 

[morgoth]

IMO the biggest thing about this product on these boards is the inclusion of vintage or lets say pre bowman chrome auto era cards.

For this crowd it seems BG would have been much better served inserting more Orange and Gold autos of prospects or stars than going out and buying 50s thru 70s HOF rcs.

One guy pulls a PSA 6 Clemente RC and is wondering how good a pull that was from a $250 pack????? People questioning the value of say a OJ Simpson PSA 9 RC (its worth about 3X the pack price it was pulled out of) just shows that vintage isn't what people were expecting or wanting out of this product.

It seems if they would have pulled a Heyward Gold Chrome Auto or Gold Stanton auto people would have been doing cartwheels vs say a Mike Schmidt or Lou Brock RC.

I think if they do include vintage in a second round, make it more limited and elite grade cards so that when someone gets one there is no question on if its worth anything.

 

[justinmandawg]

IMO the biggest thing about this product on these boards is the inclusion of vintage or lets say pre bowman chrome auto era cards.

For this crowd it seems BG would have been much better served inserting more Orange and Gold autos of prospects or stars than going out and buying 50s thru 70s HOF rcs.

One guy pulls a PSA 6 Clemente RC and is wondering how good a pull that was from a $250 pack????? People questioning the value of say a OJ Simpson PSA 9 RC (its worth about 3X the pack price it was pulled out of) just shows that vintage isn't what people were expecting or wanting out of this product.

It seems if they would have pulled a Heyward Gold Chrome Auto or Gold Stanton auto people would have been doing cartwheels vs say a Mike Schmidt or Lou Brock RC.

I think if they do include vintage in a second round, make it more limited and elite grade cards so that when someone gets one there is no question on if its worth anything.

I agree but the guys that were opening then w/ that kind of question aren't much more than gamblers, no offense to them. Some people are only into one sport. I'd love to have a vintage only version. Even w/ the chance at cards like high grade commons in tough sets would be awesome.

 

[Sean_C]

There are rants about Topps Sterling, Ultimate Collection, and just about every other high end product out there. People marvel over the big hits, and complain about the junk. It's just what happens.

why aren't there any topps sterling rants every year?

$225 for one pack usually yielding about $40 worth of cards.

I'll take RRR every day over topps sterling. oh, and triple threads as well, which can be nasty - $180 a pack for $30 worth of cards.

At least with RRR you get a recognizable rookie card, not a sticker auto of over-done mlb vets with multiple parallels and false scarcity.

 

[darocker80]

I also like how some people are still bitchin when they've pulled card(s) over 400 per. All wax is a gamble, its fact. And people are still butthurt. I think RRR is way better than any UD product asides from sweet spot

 

[Crash Davis]

I also like how some people are still bitchin when they've pulled card(s) over 400 per. All wax is a gamble, its fact. And people are still butthurt. I think RRR is way better than any UD product asides from sweet spot

The problem is that Brian Gray paraded this product around these parts as if it was going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, and while the concept is great (though far from original), the fact is that he has overused the Return on Investment (ROI) acronym far too much.

So, when people get 60-70% of the wholesale purchase price back on their breaks, but paid retail price, which slides that ROI down to 50%, they feel cheated. Why?

It's not due to a sense of entitlement - it's because the owner of the company all but guaranteed that the product would be much better than it has turned out to be.

He's on these boards responding to most complaints about case breaks, by proving the approximate eBay values of each card pulled. He follows by saying - not the best break, not the worst break - almost as frequently.

He also said that he hand-collated each case, and yet people are getting duplicate cards in some cases and poor returns as compared to Gray's stated ROI, on others.

If he had just stuck to the script and released the checklist and perhaps provided a brief commentary once (and once only) and refrained from responding to each and every gripe on a public forum, perhaps the backlash would be less.

Sometimes it's a blessing that Gray is so accessible but more times than not it's a curse.

I happen to think that the checklist is pretty good; however, the price-point is so high because he purchased some really nice cards. He took a gamble on a good portion of the checklist as there is virtual fluctuation on most newer cards in the product, especially on the Stephen Strasburg stuff. He undoubtedly paid twice to three times what those cards are currently selling for now to get them in this product. Is that his fault? Nope but he's unfairly being crucified for it.

While I do feel that some of you are being unfair towards Gray, I must admit that he has brought a lot of this upon himself by being way to accessible and overpromising.

And the irony of this whole product is that the actual cards his company (or former company...it's fast becoming the P Diddy of cards or is it Diddy Dirty Money or Puffy ... err...I dunno) produced are virtually an afterthought while the cards he repackaged for the most part are those of the companies whom he considers, or considered at one point, to be competitors - Topps, Donruss (Panini), Upper Deck.

Would this product work again? Perhaps, but it would have to be at a much lower price point and there would have to be much more transparency.

 

[justinmandawg]

I also like how some people are still bitchin when they've pulled card(s) over 400 per. All wax is a gamble, its fact. And people are still butthurt. I think RRR is way better than any UD product asides from sweet spot

The problem is that Brian Gray paraded this product around these parts as if it was going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, and while the concept is great (though far from original), the fact is that he has overused the Return on Investment (ROI) acronym far too much.

So, when people get 60-70% of the wholesale purchase price back on their breaks, but paid retail price, which slides that ROI down to 50%, they feel cheated. Why?

It's not due to a sense of entitlement - it's because the owner of the company all but guaranteed that the product would be much better than it has turned out to be.

He's on these boards responding to most complaints about case breaks, by proving the approximate eBay values of each card pulled. He follows by saying - not the best break, not the worst break - almost as frequently.

He also said that he hand-collated each case, and yet people are getting duplicate cards in some cases and poor returns as compared to Gray's stated ROI, on others.

If he had just stuck to the script and released the checklist and perhaps provided a brief commentary once (and once only) and refrained from responding to each and every gripe on a public forum, perhaps the backlash would be less.

Sometimes it's a blessing that Gray is so accessible but more times than not it's a curse.

I happen to think that the checklist is pretty good; however, the price-point is so high because he purchased some really nice cards. He took a gamble on a good portion of the checklist as there is virtual fluctuation on most newer cards in the product, especially on the Stephen Strasburg stuff. He undoubtedly paid twice to three times what those cards are currently selling for now to get them in this product. Is that his fault? Nope but he's unfairly being crucified for it.

While I do feel that some of you are being unfair towards Gray, I must admit that he has brought a lot of this upon himself by being way to accessible and overpromising.

And the irony of this whole product is that the actual cards his company (or former company...it's fast becoming the P Diddy of cards or is it Diddy Dirty Money or Puffy ... err...I dunno) produced are virtually an afterthought while the cards he repackaged for the most part are those of the companies whom he considers, or considered at one point, to be competitors - Topps, Donruss (Panini), Upper Deck.

Would this product work again? Perhaps, but it would have to be at a much lower price point and there would have to be much more transparency.

Topps is no more transparent than Razor. People can get their cases direct from Razor / Leaf simply by emailing or making a phone call.

 

[Crash Davis]

I also like how some people are still bitchin when they've pulled card(s) over 400 per. All wax is a gamble, its fact. And people are still butthurt. I think RRR is way better than any UD product asides from sweet spot

The problem is that Brian Gray paraded this product around these parts as if it was going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, and while the concept is great (though far from original), the fact is that he has overused the Return on Investment (ROI) acronym far too much.

So, when people get 60-70% of the wholesale purchase price back on their breaks, but paid retail price, which slides that ROI down to 50%, they feel cheated. Why?

It's not due to a sense of entitlement - it's because the owner of the company all but guaranteed that the product would be much better than it has turned out to be.

He's on these boards responding to most complaints about case breaks, by proving the approximate eBay values of each card pulled. He follows by saying - not the best break, not the worst break - almost as frequently.

He also said that he hand-collated each case, and yet people are getting duplicate cards in some cases and poor returns as compared to Gray's stated ROI, on others.

If he had just stuck to the script and released the checklist and perhaps provided a brief commentary once (and once only) and refrained from responding to each and every gripe on a public forum, perhaps the backlash would be less.

Sometimes it's a blessing that Gray is so accessible but more times than not it's a curse.

I happen to think that the checklist is pretty good; however, the price-point is so high because he purchased some really nice cards. He took a gamble on a good portion of the checklist as there is virtual fluctuation on most newer cards in the product, especially on the Stephen Strasburg stuff. He undoubtedly paid twice to three times what those cards are currently selling for now to get them in this product. Is that his fault? Nope but he's unfairly being crucified for it.

While I do feel that some of you are being unfair towards Gray, I must admit that he has brought a lot of this upon himself by being way to accessible and overpromising.

And the irony of this whole product is that the actual cards his company (or former company...it's fast becoming the P Diddy of cards or is it Diddy Dirty Money or Puffy ... err...I dunno) produced are virtually an afterthought while the cards he repackaged for the most part are those of the companies whom he considers, or considered at one point, to be competitors - Topps, Donruss (Panini), Upper Deck.

Would this product work again? Perhaps, but it would have to be at a much lower price point and there would have to be much more transparency.

Topps is no more transparent than Razor. People can get their cases direct from Razor / Leaf simply by emailing or making a phone call.

Sure they are. They release print runs of the cards they include, and serial-number all cards in products that cost $250 per pack.

That's more transparent in the context of my statement.

 

[justinmandawg]

[quote="Crash Davis":1q6thot5]

I also like how some people are still bitchin when they've pulled card(s) over 400 per. All wax is a gamble, its fact. And people are still butthurt. I think RRR is way better than any UD product asides from sweet spot

The problem is that Brian Gray paraded this product around these parts as if it was going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, and while the concept is great (though far from original), the fact is that he has overused the Return on Investment (ROI) acronym far too much.

So, when people get 60-70% of the wholesale purchase price back on their breaks, but paid retail price, which slides that ROI down to 50%, they feel cheated. Why?

It's not due to a sense of entitlement - it's because the owner of the company all but guaranteed that the product would be much better than it has turned out to be.

He's on these boards responding to most complaints about case breaks, by proving the approximate eBay values of each card pulled. He follows by saying - not the best break, not the worst break - almost as frequently.

He also said that he hand-collated each case, and yet people are getting duplicate cards in some cases and poor returns as compared to Gray's stated ROI, on others.

If he had just stuck to the script and released the checklist and perhaps provided a brief commentary once (and once only) and refrained from responding to each and every gripe on a public forum, perhaps the backlash would be less.

Sometimes it's a blessing that Gray is so accessible but more times than not it's a curse.

I happen to think that the checklist is pretty good; however, the price-point is so high because he purchased some really nice cards. He took a gamble on a good portion of the checklist as there is virtual fluctuation on most newer cards in the product, especially on the Stephen Strasburg stuff. He undoubtedly paid twice to three times what those cards are currently selling for now to get them in this product. Is that his fault? Nope but he's unfairly being crucified for it.

While I do feel that some of you are being unfair towards Gray, I must admit that he has brought a lot of this upon himself by being way to accessible and overpromising.

And the irony of this whole product is that the actual cards his company (or former company...it's fast becoming the P Diddy of cards or is it Diddy Dirty Money or Puffy ... err...I dunno) produced are virtually an afterthought while the cards he repackaged for the most part are those of the companies whom he considers, or considered at one point, to be competitors - Topps, Donruss (Panini), Upper Deck.

Would this product work again? Perhaps, but it would have to be at a much lower price point and there would have to be much more transparency.

Topps is no more transparent than Razor. People can get their cases direct from Razor / Leaf simply by emailing or making a phone call.

Sure they are. They release print runs of the cards they include, and serial-number all cards in products that cost $250 per pack.

That's more transparent in the context of my statement.[/quote:1q6thot5]

We have print run on topps sterling? All the cards are serial numbered, yes, but is there a checklist to show us there are 15 cards /10 that are essentially the same card?

Even at 50% ROI, it beats the piss out of Sterling on ROI when you bust a case of each.

 

[Crash Davis]

[quote="Crash Davis":2fg9f942]

I also like how some people are still bitchin when they've pulled card(s) over 400 per. All wax is a gamble, its fact. And people are still butthurt. I think RRR is way better than any UD product asides from sweet spot

The problem is that Brian Gray paraded this product around these parts as if it was going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, and while the concept is great (though far from original), the fact is that he has overused the Return on Investment (ROI) acronym far too much.

So, when people get 60-70% of the wholesale purchase price back on their breaks, but paid retail price, which slides that ROI down to 50%, they feel cheated. Why?

It's not due to a sense of entitlement - it's because the owner of the company all but guaranteed that the product would be much better than it has turned out to be.

He's on these boards responding to most complaints about case breaks, by proving the approximate eBay values of each card pulled. He follows by saying - not the best break, not the worst break - almost as frequently.

He also said that he hand-collated each case, and yet people are getting duplicate cards in some cases and poor returns as compared to Gray's stated ROI, on others.

If he had just stuck to the script and released the checklist and perhaps provided a brief commentary once (and once only) and refrained from responding to each and every gripe on a public forum, perhaps the backlash would be less.

Sometimes it's a blessing that Gray is so accessible but more times than not it's a curse.

I happen to think that the checklist is pretty good; however, the price-point is so high because he purchased some really nice cards. He took a gamble on a good portion of the checklist as there is virtual fluctuation on most newer cards in the product, especially on the Stephen Strasburg stuff. He undoubtedly paid twice to three times what those cards are currently selling for now to get them in this product. Is that his fault? Nope but he's unfairly being crucified for it.

While I do feel that some of you are being unfair towards Gray, I must admit that he has brought a lot of this upon himself by being way to accessible and overpromising.

And the irony of this whole product is that the actual cards his company (or former company...it's fast becoming the P Diddy of cards or is it Diddy Dirty Money or Puffy ... err...I dunno) produced are virtually an afterthought while the cards he repackaged for the most part are those of the companies whom he considers, or considered at one point, to be competitors - Topps, Donruss (Panini), Upper Deck.

Would this product work again? Perhaps, but it would have to be at a much lower price point and there would have to be much more transparency.

Topps is no more transparent than Razor. People can get their cases direct from Razor / Leaf simply by emailing or making a phone call.

Sure they are. They release print runs of the cards they include, and serial-number all cards in products that cost $250 per pack.

That's more transparent in the context of my statement.

We have print run on topps sterling? All the cards are serial numbered, yes, but is there a checklist to show us there are 15 cards /10 that are essentially the same card?

Even at 50% ROI, it beats the piss out of Sterling on ROI when you bust a case of each.[/quote:2fg9f942]

I totally agree; Topps Sterling is terrible. So is Triple Threads.

But this whole ROI concept is idiotic. NOBODY IS INVESTING MONEY IN A BOX OF STERLING OR THREADS OR RRR! If they are, then they have no concept of investments whatsoever.

They could just go out and take the $1,500.00 that they would spend on a case of RRR and buy a nice Roberto Clemente rookie or a Sandy Koufax rookie or a Pete Rose rookie, etc.

No, people are GAMBLING when they buy a box or case of Sterling, Threads or RRR!

That's my real issue. One lawsuit against Brian Gray and his Razor company (or former company) for stated ROI on this product consistently not being met and he won't throw around that idiotic acronym anymore.

When you go to Vegas or Atlantic City, and throw down $300 on black, is that considered an investment?! NO!

So buying a box of RRR (or Sterling or Threads or National Treasures) any different? NO! You don't see Topps or Panini or Upper Deck or In the Game throwing around ROI.

That's my point. That's why people are justified in their complaints.

People hang on Brian's every word.

 

[matchpenalty]

I just hope BG with Leaf brand can bring the same kind of excitement to FCB. Nothing was better than a good Razor thread. What sets FCB apart from any other site and makes this site so great. Just drop Razor or BG and you got 3-10 pages of posts. Like or hate'm BG/Razor/Leaf gets people fired up!

 

[AmishDave]

I'm glad someone else is thinking like I'm thinking.

I love you Kevin

Beware: Ranting bitchfest ahead.

Where the hell does this sense of entitlement come from for people busting Razor Rookie Retro? The amount of people pissed off because they didn't make their money back is sickening. Aside from 2010 Bowman with the Heyward and Stras show me one product that has the ROI that RRR boast. Why are people expecting to make money on busting this wax. Don't get me wrong I'm very excited about this product but these people bitching about it it out of control. News flash: busting wax is a gamble and RRR is no different.

Ranting bitchfest over.