Saw something disgusting at Progressive Field tonight...

[seitas]

Unless its a matter of religion as has been pointed out; I think its pretty lame to not stand for the anthem/remove a hat. A baseball game is no place for a political statement imo.

Standing for the anthem is also about respecting others around you as well.

That said I'm not sure if I've ever seen anyone not stand up, as I generally don't bother myself in others business.

I agree with what your saying. The point I am making is if you don't know what motivates people you shouldn't make assumptions.
I love the screen name I was a bones brigade fanactic in the 80's Lance was one of the greats. He actually rides with my cousin in a skate ministry up in Oregon he is a super cool guy. And can still shred.

 

[studioclint]

The beautiful thing about this country we have the freedom of speech to express our opinions. Not standing for the national anthem was this man's way of expressing his discontent with the country. There are a lot of things wrong with our country but the freedom to express your opinion is not one of them. Personally I don't stand for God Bless America. It doesn't have to do with a lack of respect for our country or our soldiers but I don't believe in god and I see no point in asking a nonexistent deity to bless our country.

Well my opinion is that if you can't stand for our National Anthem you can find somewhere else to live. It has nothing to do religion or discontent with the country. It has to do with our freedom and what America stands for. What he did was disrespectful to the country and every person who served to win our freedom. If you aren't happy with the war or the economy or anything else that is not the way to express it.

this is more out of line than what he did. telling someone to find somewhere else to live for their beliefs is pretty much the exact opposite of the founding principles of the country.

as for the anthem itself, you could just as easily say it has nothing to do with those who served to win or maintain our freedom. there is no rule. the lyrics themselves clearly talk about winning freedom, of course, but when a song becomes a true national anthem there are several other connotations added to it that supersede its surface meaning. This is the song of America. If you're pissed with America you can show it by being pissed with this song. It's no different than a flag at this point. The emblems on the flag are relatively meaningless except for the body they signify.

i would even go so far as to say this is a fantastic way to express your discontent with war/economy/president/whatever. no one listens to screaming protests. things such as this speak volumes. the fact that we're even talking about it proves this.

would i have done it? no. but there is absolutely 100% nothing wrong with him doing it. and i agree with the poster who said his only real crime was to force his daughter to do the same.

If there's nothing wrong with what he did then you should feel there is nothing wrong with what I'm doing...

If it bothered you that much. Why didn't you stand up for freedom and say something too the guy instead of coming on here to complain?

 

[porcello94]

Cowboys- I'm going to quote exactly what you said to me regarding my opposition of NY mosque:

My thoughts are you should be more tolerant.



Annoying when people tell you to be more tolerant, and then are not tolerant themselves when regarding free speech, freedom of religion, etc.

Having said that, yes, I find it annoying as well when people don't stand. However, it's his choice.

 

[cowboysrule48]

The beautiful thing about this country we have the freedom of speech to express our opinions. Not standing for the national anthem was this man's way of expressing his discontent with the country. There are a lot of things wrong with our country but the freedom to express your opinion is not one of them. Personally I don't stand for God Bless America. It doesn't have to do with a lack of respect for our country or our soldiers but I don't believe in god and I see no point in asking a nonexistent deity to bless our country.

Well my opinion is that if you can't stand for our National Anthem you can find somewhere else to live. It has nothing to do religion or discontent with the country. It has to do with our freedom and what America stands for. What he did was disrespectful to the country and every person who served to win our freedom. If you aren't happy with the war or the economy or anything else that is not the way to express it.

this is more out of line than what he did. telling someone to find somewhere else to live for their beliefs is pretty much the exact opposite of the founding principles of the country.

as for the anthem itself, you could just as easily say it has nothing to do with those who served to win or maintain our freedom. there is no rule. the lyrics themselves clearly talk about winning freedom, of course, but when a song becomes a true national anthem there are several other connotations added to it that supersede its surface meaning. This is the song of America. If you're pissed with America you can show it by being pissed with this song. It's no different than a flag at this point. The emblems on the flag are relatively meaningless except for the body they signify.

i would even go so far as to say this is a fantastic way to express your discontent with war/economy/president/whatever. no one listens to screaming protests. things such as this speak volumes. the fact that we're even talking about it proves this.

would i have done it? no. but there is absolutely 100% nothing wrong with him doing it. and i agree with the poster who said his only real crime was to force his daughter to do the same.

If there's nothing wrong with what he did then you should feel there is nothing wrong with what I'm doing...

If it bothered you that much. Why didn't you stand up for freedom and say something too the guy instead of coming on here to complain?

I already posted that I regretted not saying something to him.

 

[cowboysrule48]

Cowboys- I'm going to quote exactly what you said to me regarding my opposition of NY mosque:

My thoughts are you should be more tolerant.



Annoying when people tell you to be more tolerant, and then are not tolerant themselves when regarding free speech, freedom of religion, etc.

Having said that, yes, I find it annoying as well when people don't stand. However, it's his choice.

Saying a mosque shouldn't be blocked is a little different than thinking someone should just stand up. Me thinking he should stand has nothing to do with race religion etc... You obviously harbored some distain for Muslims.

 

[seitas]

Cowboys- I'm going to quote exactly what you said to me regarding my opposition of NY mosque:

My thoughts are you should be more tolerant.



Annoying when people tell you to be more tolerant, and then are not tolerant themselves when regarding free speech, freedom of religion, etc.

Having said that, yes, I find it annoying as well when people don't stand. However, it's his choice.

Saying a mosque shouldn't be blocked is a little different than thinking someone should just stand up. Me thinking he should stand has nothing to do with race religion etc... You obviously harbored some distain for Muslims.

Thats the point. How do you know it had nothing to do with religion? Assumptions are the product of ignorance. Good luck to you.

 

[All The Hype]

For those of you saying to respect his freedom of speech:


By not standing, he is disrespecting the nation that gives him the freedom of speech. It may be difficult to understand, but you have to look beyond the surface of this because it is a much deeper than simple freedom of speech. It's about respecting the country that gives you the rights you have as an American. By not standing to recognize this, you are essentially saying you don't care about the freedoms you have as an American citizen. Freedoms that don't exist in most countries around the world.


America is a great place. Most of us don't know what it's like to live anywhere else so it's hard not to take it for granted, but the least you can do is to pay your respects to the country and those who have founded and protected it by standing during the anthem.

 

[porcello94]

Cowboys- I'm going to quote exactly what you said to me regarding my opposition of NY mosque:

My thoughts are you should be more tolerant.



Annoying when people tell you to be more tolerant, and then are not tolerant themselves when regarding free speech, freedom of religion, etc.

Having said that, yes, I find it annoying as well when people don't stand. However, it's his choice.

Saying a mosque shouldn't be blocked is a little different than thinking someone should just stand up. Me thinking he should stand has nothing to do with race religion etc... You obviously harbored some distain for Muslims.

Oh clearly. Me and the other 70% of the nation that disagrees with the LOCATION of the mosque all hate Muslims.

Nice insinuation.

 

[cowboysrule48]

Cowboys- I'm going to quote exactly what you said to me regarding my opposition of NY mosque:

My thoughts are you should be more tolerant.



Annoying when people tell you to be more tolerant, and then are not tolerant themselves when regarding free speech, freedom of religion, etc.

Having said that, yes, I find it annoying as well when people don't stand. However, it's his choice.

Saying a mosque shouldn't be blocked is a little different than thinking someone should just stand up. Me thinking he should stand has nothing to do with race religion etc... You obviously harbored some distain for Muslims.

Thats the point. How do you know it had nothing to do with religion? Assumptions are the product of ignorance. Good luck to you.

If it was truly because of religion then I do apologize for this post, however since he was with a large group of about 10 people and every one else he was with did stand I'm not so sure that was the reason. Again it may have been, and maybe I shouldn't have made this post since I'm not sure. However I still think you can at least just stand up and keep your hands to your side or behind your back and show some respect.

 

[porcello94]

For those of you saying to respect his freedom of speech:


By not standing, he is disrespecting the nation that gives him the freedom of speech. It may be difficult to understand, but you have to look beyond the surface of this because it is a much deeper than simple freedom of speech. It's about respecting the country that gives you the rights you have as an American. By not standing to recognize this, you are essentially saying you don't care about the freedoms you have as an American citizen. Freedoms that don't exist in most countries around the world.


America is a great place. Most of us don't know what it's like to live anywhere else so it's hard not to take it for granted, but the least you can do is to pay your respects to the country and those who have founded and protected it by standing during the anthem.

You're absolutely right about the last part. That's why anyone with a brain stands.

To play Devil's advocate, by not standing he is also reaffirming his rights as well however.

 

[Wes]

I don't agree with what he did but I would caution against approaching him or causing a scene - you never know the reasoning - no matter how misguided. What if he just lost a child in the war and it's his way of protesting. Again, misguided but I would hate to get in his face over a circumstance that I can't possibly understand.

I think this has gotten lost - to the guy who advocated approaching him.

 

[rehmus]

For those of you saying to respect his freedom of speech:


By not standing, he is disrespecting the nation that gives him the freedom of speech. It may be difficult to understand, but you have to look beyond the surface of this because it is a much deeper than simple freedom of speech. It's about respecting the country that gives you the rights you have as an American. By not standing to recognize this, you are essentially saying you don't care about the freedoms you have as an American citizen. Freedoms that don't exist in most countries around the world.


America is a great place. Most of us don't know what it's like to live anywhere else so it's hard not to take it for granted, but the least you can do is to pay your respects to the country and those who have founded and protected it by standing during the anthem.

youre missing the point completely. this goes way beyond the literal meaning of the anthem. he has the right to use the anthem, an undeniable symbol of the country, to show his displeasure with the country...

to deny him this right is more disrespectful to those who fought for him to have this right than any act he does regarding the anthem. it just is.

 

[cowboysrule48]

Cowboys- I'm going to quote exactly what you said to me regarding my opposition of NY mosque:

My thoughts are you should be more tolerant.



Annoying when people tell you to be more tolerant, and then are not tolerant themselves when regarding free speech, freedom of religion, etc.

Having said that, yes, I find it annoying as well when people don't stand. However, it's his choice.

Saying a mosque shouldn't be blocked is a little different than thinking someone should just stand up. Me thinking he should stand has nothing to do with race religion etc... You obviously harbored some distain for Muslims.

Oh clearly. Me and the other 70% of the nation that disagrees with the LOCATION of the mosque all hate Muslims.

Nice insinuation.

You said that Muslims were part of a new global movement to destroy America.... Totally disregarding that there are Christian terror groups too... This wasn't the point of this thread. You agreed with my original sentiments so I don't get why you are just trying to stir the pot.

 

[Lancemountain]

I don't agree with what he did but I would caution against approaching him or causing a scene - you never know the reasoning - no matter how misguided. What if he just lost a child in the war and it's his way of protesting. Again, misguided but I would hate to get in his face over a circumstance that I can't possibly understand.

I think this has gotten lost - to the guy who advocated approaching him.

I caught it, good post. its always better to tend to ones own business in life and not to concern yourself with other's non violent actions.

 

[TBTwinsFan]

America, even though some people may hate our leader, is the greatest country on earth. I would much rather live here than in Russia, Mexico, or the Middle East. I don't understand everything that goes on in this world but with all the bloodshed and violence that I hear about on the news, it makes me feel good that I can live in a place where I can walk down the street and say that I am a Christian, and be friends with a person of a totally different religion without having bullets fired at my head by the Government or Terrorists. Heck, we take for granted Facebook of all things... some countries don't allow stuff like that.

I think whoever this guy is needs to wake up and realize that he can live here, or fight for his life somewhere else in the world.

 

[porcello94]

Cowboys- I'm going to quote exactly what you said to me regarding my opposition of NY mosque:

My thoughts are you should be more tolerant.



Annoying when people tell you to be more tolerant, and then are not tolerant themselves when regarding free speech, freedom of religion, etc.

Having said that, yes, I find it annoying as well when people don't stand. However, it's his choice.

Saying a mosque shouldn't be blocked is a little different than thinking someone should just stand up. Me thinking he should stand has nothing to do with race religion etc... You obviously harbored some distain for Muslims.

Oh clearly. Me and the other 70% of the nation that disagrees with the LOCATION of the mosque all hate Muslims.

Nice insinuation.

You said that Muslims were part of a new global movement to destroy America.... Totally disregarding that there are Christian terror groups too... This wasn't the point of this thread. You agreed with my original sentiments so I don't get why you are just trying to stir the pot.

Woah woah when and where did I say that???

I have never said anything even close to that in my life. Quote me if I'm wrong, please. You've got the wrong guy.

EDIT: Are you talking about when I said Al-Qaeda did that???? Yes! They are! I then asked where you thought the few Americans you hear on the news now plotting with al-qaeda were practicing their religion! The answer of course, being mosques.

I am completely free from religion, haven't cared for it really ever. What in the hell are you talking about.

 

[All The Hype]

For those of you saying to respect his freedom of speech:


By not standing, he is disrespecting the nation that gives him the freedom of speech. It may be difficult to understand, but you have to look beyond the surface of this because it is a much deeper than simple freedom of speech. It's about respecting the country that gives you the rights you have as an American. By not standing to recognize this, you are essentially saying you don't care about the freedoms you have as an American citizen. Freedoms that don't exist in most countries around the world.


America is a great place. Most of us don't know what it's like to live anywhere else so it's hard not to take it for granted, but the least you can do is to pay your respects to the country and those who have founded and protected it by standing during the anthem.

youre missing the point completely. this goes way beyond the literal meaning of the anthem. he has the right to use the anthem, an undeniable symbol of the country, to show his displeasure with the country...

to deny him this right is more disrespectful to those who fought for him to have this right than any act he does regarding the anthem. it just is.

Respectfully, I disagree. I see what you're saying, but it is my own opinion that you stand for the national anthem because it is the ONE thing that Americans should do regardless of their opinions and their right to freedom of speech.


The anthem is a tribute to the country that grants us freedom of speech. By denying the country, you are denying the freedoms it presents to you. Without the country, there would be no freedom of speech.

It's kind of a difficult way to look at it because it's basically putting the country that grants you freedom of speech...above the freedom of speech it grants you. Sort of catch-22 if you will, which is why this is a difficult topic.

Again, I see your opinion and respectfully disagree. Do you see what I'm trying to say though?

 

[Lancemountain]

Unless its a matter of religion as has been pointed out; I think its pretty lame to not stand for the anthem/remove a hat. A baseball game is no place for a political statement imo.

Standing for the anthem is also about respecting others around you as well.

That said I'm not sure if I've ever seen anyone not stand up, as I generally don't bother myself in others business.

I agree with what your saying. The point I am making is if you don't know what motivates people you shouldn't make assumptions.
I love the screen name I was a bones brigade fanactic in the 80's Lance was one of the greats. He actually rides with my cousin in a skate ministry up in Oregon he is a super cool guy. And can still shred.

Oh I was agreeing with your point. The OP has 0% idea why the guy choose not to stand and he would have made an ass of himself if he confronted the guy (imo)

I just think people who tend to make such statements at a ballgame are ********. There are better platforms out there. Religious reasons are the only "pass" here, but then again perhaps it would be more appropriate to not be in your seats during the anthem.

And Lance was my first deck Bones Brigade Brah!

 

[Lifelongfan]

ALL THE HYPE = ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

Dont like it here? MOVE!

 

[Lancemountain]

Dont like it here? MOVE!

YEAH! Don't think your native country is perfect? Get out! MOVE