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Shelving a brand...

bmc398

New member
May 25, 2009
2,312
Question....what do you think about a company just tossing a brand away never to bust it out again? I think there are a ton of product lines this needs to happen to. My feeling is this....maybe it's not every year you release Ginter or Gypsy Queen or Elite (football, hockey, basketball)...but bringing them back when demand sees fit and the rookie class supports it seems smart to me.

Ginter is a semi-popular product....but I think it got a huge boost being really the only mid level baseball release for Topps during the summer and heat of the baseball season. Now that there are other things out, you will see this cool further than it already has. I just don't understand Gypsy Queen as it is poorly designed, poorly pulled off and there is already a Topps throwback set out there (see Ginter above).

I think part of the problem in the industry is that there is little to no innovation out there. Obviously with Chrome cards, there is no need to re-invent the wheel but I also think there is no sense on continuously going back to the same retro set over and over and over again. I will applaud Topps with bringing Inception to baseball/prospect...but some of that goodwill has been pissed away with releasing 2 of their top 5 most popular products in the same 3 DAYS where there has been at least 2 months of no rookie driven releases during the season.

This kind of turned into a rant....but thoughts on shelving a brand for a year, or two?
 

predatorkj

New member
Aug 7, 2008
11,865
I'd like to see Bowman shelved. I know it won't be a popular idea. But IMO, it would be good for the hobby. No more rookie card confusion. Plus, I think it will add a ton of value to topps and topps chrome because obviously the base rookies will really be base rookies and end up being worth more. Only sad thing is that without a brand like Bowman, there are several guys who will never have cards. If anything, take the 110 or whatever rookies(new draft picks) and include them into topps series 1. And whatever comes out normally with bowman chrome, insert it into topps series 2(prospect wise). And then for bowman draft picks and prospects, insert the remain new draft picks into topps update. That way every player who just got drafted who would normally have a card in bowman, gets an actual card in topps. But really bowman as a product as a whole is crap. Nobody is buying it for the vets or even the prospect(2nd and 3rd year cards). They buy it for a minute portion of the whole set. Why not splice the important part with base topps, everyone gets a real rookie card, no more second and third year prospect cards, and add value to base topps while killing off needless base fodder.
 

sheetskout

New member
Administrator
Aug 10, 2008
5,385
Milwaukee, WI
I'm not sure I have an opinion on the saturation in the baseball market, but is the consensus (at least on FCB) that there are too many products, not, or just right in the market?
 

bmc398

New member
May 25, 2009
2,312
I'm not sure I have an opinion on the saturation in the baseball market, but is the consensus (at least on FCB) that there are too many products, not, or just right in the market?
The bigger issue to me than over-saturation is timing of release. That said, I think that a natural progression of releases would help. Obviously Topps 1 first. Then a Bowman, prospect product works. Then A retro product. Then maybe a Topps Chrome Series 1 with all the early season guys? Then a Topps Chrome 2 later in the year with the late season guys and updates? But, you would do this and eliminate Gypsy Queen or Inception or one of the cookie cutter type products. Inception, Finest, Bowman Sterling really all cannibalize the same market. They are kind of the same thing, just different points of release. Something streamlined, on time and escalating would be much better than what we have currently.
 

predatorkj

New member
Aug 7, 2008
11,865
I'm not sure I have an opinion on the saturation in the baseball market, but is the consensus (at least on FCB) that there are too many products, not, or just right in the market?
I think people are already upset only topps has a license. Add to that fact that we get sets like Allen and Ginter and gypsy queen that look the same year after year after year and it gets old. But, I'm not a fan of one shot sets. I say, if you put a set out, continue it but make the design drastically different year after year. Otherwise, yeah it gets boring. And, like I mentioned with Bowman, there are a lot of sets out there with unnecessary cards. Nobody buys topps triple threads for the base cards or parallels of them, nobody buys bowman for the vets or second year and up cards, mostly nobody buys archives for anything other than the chance at autos of players who have little if any certified autos, and the list goes on. Why not just put out a product like TTT where all cards are hits, beef topps up with the hunger we have for obscure autos and draft picks, and change or kill off redundant looking sets like Ginter and GQ? It would save a lot of time and money for topps, and it would keep a long term interest in products well after the release, season, and even the year. 5 years from now, collectors won't be chasing cards from the 2013 base topps products. But they would if it was worth their while.
 

dano7

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
10,285
Roanoke, VA
Maybe Topps needs to go back to releasing 7 Series again. They could release throughout the season, updating for whoever the hot rookies are, as well as to who has changed teams and who has been called up.
DANNY
 

bmc398

New member
May 25, 2009
2,312
Maybe Topps needs to go back to releasing 7 Series again. They could release throughout the season, updating for whoever the hot rookies are, as well as to who has changed teams and who has been called up.
DANNY
I think an approach like this would be cool. Maybe 130 cards in a series, 3-4 base cards in a pack. 4 inserts in a pack including Gypsy Queen, Ginter, Tier One, Heritage base, chrome, mini's, hits, etc...

That way, all of the niche brands would be attainable, but rare. Topps would still be a chase set (still have to open 2-3 cases to get it) and all of the other cards outside of the hits are worth something too. Keeps the sets living and in the minds of collectors through the season vs. the month of release. Every box looks and feels the same on the outside, every pack looks the same and costs the same and has the chance of a huge hit. Even if it doesn't, you still get plenty of cards to complete your set and plenty of cards others would purchase to complete the set.
 

DiebytheCubs

Member
Dec 2, 2012
262
Chicago suburbs/Ohio
I think that Topps should definitely shelve some of the mid-low end stuff (don't have much of an opinion on the high end stuff since I can't really afford it). Personally, I enjoy putting sets together and one of the tough decisions I face every year is what sets to do. Although I like Archives when it first came out, I have come to thinking that there is way to much retro stuff out there. They need to start innovating for the future, not constantly looking in the past. With that said, it would seem best if they kept Series 1 and 2 (Obvious choices), Bowman (for the rookies), Allen and Ginter (fan favorite) and maybe Topps Chrome. I would be in favor of getting rid of Archives, Gypsy Queen, Update, and all those Bowman variations (Platinum, Chrome, DPP). That's just my two cents though
 

bmc398

New member
May 25, 2009
2,312
I think that Topps should definitely shelve some of the mid-low end stuff (don't have much of an opinion on the high end stuff since I can't really afford it). Personally, I enjoy putting sets together and one of the tough decisions I face every year is what sets to do. Although I like Archives when it first came out, I have come to thinking that there is way to much retro stuff out there. They need to start innovating for the future, not constantly looking in the past. With that said, it would seem best if they kept Series 1 and 2 (Obvious choices), Bowman (for the rookies), Allen and Ginter (fan favorite) and maybe Topps Chrome. I would be in favor of getting rid of Archives, Gypsy Queen, Update, and all those Bowman variations (Platinum, Chrome, DPP). That's just my two cents though
I think they should dump the Bowman Chrome standalone release. Nobody really wants the vet parallels from there, the checklist is usually pretty weak and it would make Draft AND Bowman stronger. Keep the high draft picks in draft and make the Bowman set a bit bigger, but it would be a much bigger and better draw if it were the only place to get other chrome prospects that weren't in draft in previous years. Topps, don't be scared to let a guy's first Topps brand auto be a TC RC! These used to be go to RCs! Now, they are usually the 3rd or 4th on card auto these guys have had.
 

predatorkj

New member
Aug 7, 2008
11,865
Topps, don't be scared to let a guy's first Topps brand auto be a TC RC! These used to be go to RCs! Now, they are usually the 3rd or 4th on card auto these guys have had.
And it's usually done like this making these cards practically worthless in comparison. In fact I'll never understand why topps makes Bowman with prospects or vets. Why not just new draft picks, one card each with an auto'd version in every parallel color?

Also, the inserts seem to be gaining again because it seems topps is trying to be a little more creative with them again. That's a good thing. But they need to limit the amount of insert sets. You get something like base topps that just has way too many insert sets. Yes I know people chase them down but in reality, they become worthless after a short time and are very much a pain in the butt to worry about collecting. And to be honest, some of them just are t even worth making. Topps football this year has a few inserts not even worth my time. My thinking is make less insert sets but make them good.
 

BBCgalaxee

Active member
Sep 9, 2011
6,400
Dump gypsy queen, five star, archives and tier one or museum.

Sent from my HTCONE using Freedom Card Board mobile app
 

bmc398

New member
May 25, 2009
2,312
Dump gypsy queen, five star, archives and tier one or museum.

Sent from my HTCONE using Freedom Card Board mobile app
Museum > Tier one across the product. If you took the super high end stuff from Tier 1 and jammed it into Museum that would be a hell of a product.
 

Eamon

New member
Jun 16, 2010
1,080
I'd like to see Bowman shelved. I know it won't be a popular idea. But IMO, it would be good for the hobby. No more rookie card confusion. Plus, I think it will add a ton of value to topps and topps chrome because obviously the base rookies will really be base rookies and end up being worth more. Only sad thing is that without a brand like Bowman, there are several guys who will never have cards. If anything, take the 110 or whatever rookies(new draft picks) and include them into topps series 1. And whatever comes out normally with bowman chrome, insert it into topps series 2(prospect wise). And then for bowman draft picks and prospects, insert the remain new draft picks into topps update. That way every player who just got drafted who would normally have a card in bowman, gets an actual card in topps. But really bowman as a product as a whole is crap. Nobody is buying it for the vets or even the prospect(2nd and 3rd year cards). They buy it for a minute portion of the whole set. Why not splice the important part with base topps, everyone gets a real rookie card, no more second and third year prospect cards, and add value to base topps while killing off needless base fodder.
This is the worst and dumbest post I have ever read on this board.....
 

ASTROBURN

Active member
Jun 23, 2011
4,576
Santa Cruz, CA
I think that Topps should definitely shelve some of the mid-low end stuff (don't have much of an opinion on the high end stuff since I can't really afford it).
Doesnt that give you an answer right there? If we cant afford it, then shelve it and put the efforts of those products into more affordable products.
 

lambert58

New member
Sep 29, 2008
425
Melbourne, FL
Maybe Topps needs to go back to releasing 7 Series again. They could release throughout the season, updating for whoever the hot rookies are, as well as to who has changed teams and who has been called up.
DANNY
When did Topps do this? I think bmc398 got it 100% correct....timing. I had thought that when this RC label thing was changing, it was agreed that all sets for that year needed to be released DURING that season, not playoffs, after the season is over OR the following year. I hate that Bowman Draft comes out so late. If a player cannot be included for some reason than to bad, he'll get in next year. Don't stop a product from release for silly reasons. Plus as Topps is the only one (which totally sucks) they definitely make too many products and like many said they all look alike year after year. Check out cards from the 70's and back, even 80's you can within a second tell what year they are. Now you look at a chrome card and it may take a minute or longer to remember "oh yeah" that is a 2011, not a 2012. Like many collectors I think we are sick of the amount of products and the same ol' designs.
 

smapdi

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
4,194
Topps did this from 1952-1973. I, for one, would love to see it, at least one year. Six 132-card series, with all the little subsets, traded updates, callups, etc. A 24-pack box would very likely complete the series and not be too expensive. Or an 18-pack box would be cheaper and encourage trading for set-building. And you'd have the speculation on whether the "high numbers" would end up being short as they had been in decades past as people get worn out.

They actually do this now, except every series is a new set with mostly the same players.

Card companies retire sets all the time. Go back to the 90s and you'll see tons of sets that had 1 year runs, maybe 2 or 3 sometimes. Topps still does this, and brings some lines back occasionally, like Archives.
 

DiebytheCubs

Member
Dec 2, 2012
262
Chicago suburbs/Ohio
Doesnt that give you an answer right there? If we cant afford it, then shelve it and put the efforts of those products into more affordable products.
I don't think so. I'm a poor college student so that's my situation. Even though I can't afford it, I still like looking at some of the high end stuff like Triple Threads and Museum Collection and would actually be pretty disappointed if they got shelved.
 

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