So HOW LOW are the Five Star boxes going to fall?

[hive17]

Rather than continue to make stuff up, take the time to do some research and tell me which manufacturers didn't go bankrupt or weren't absorbed by another manufacturer because they were unable to compete.

Further don't include nonviable/mismanaged manufacturers such as UD because mismanagement is the same as not being able to compete; we've seen it leads to shady business practices everyone knows UD engaged in:

Donruss
DLP
Fleer
Leaf
Pacific
Pinnacle
Score
Skybox
O-Pee-Chee
Topps
Upper Deck

(big hint: Check HERE for help)

Also, when did the surviving manufacturer(s) begin operations?

While you may labor under the delusion that its easy for manufacturers to make money, its clearly not even in the best of times.

OH, the link to wikipedia /THREAD!

Donruss, DLP and Leaf were all the same company, so you've just proven that you know nothing about what you're talking about and indicated that you are the one who needs to do some research.

I hate answering a question with a question, but riddle me this historian: what caused Donruss/Playoff to stop making baseball cards after 2005? Was it the market rejecting too many brands? Was it DLP going bankrupt? Nope, none of that. It was MLB deciding to not renew their license. That's it. All your other claims to the contrary are simply wrong.

Also, your limited understanding of business seems to confer that one company being bought by another implies that the "purchased" company was in trouble. It's usually a matter of ownership cashing out or the "purchasing" company seeing VALUE in the other company. If your reasoning were somehow correct, then every company that bought another company would be doing so in an effort to buy a brand that no one wanted and thus, piss their money away. So when Fleer, O-Pee-Chee or Sky-Box get bought by a larger company, it's because that larger company wants the value that those other brands have.

And I also like how you want to ignore the Upper Deck situation, since it completely destroys your argument that the market was the death-knell to them. Your entire premise for limited releases by 1 company is that the market can't support them; yet there is no evidence (oh, I'm sorry, I forgot your curious link to the "Trading Card" entry in Wikipedia :benson: ) that the market couldn't support many, many products. What actually happened was MLB decided an increasing monoploly was desired, and many, many people have lamented that decision daily.

 

[ThoseBackPages]

you guys are mean.

 

[sportscardtheory]

OH, the link to wikipedia /THREAD!

Donruss, DLP and Leaf were all the same company, so you've just proven that you know nothing about what you're talking about and indicated that you are the one who needs to do some research.

I hate answering a question with a question, but riddle me this historian: what caused Donruss/Playoff to stop making baseball cards after 2005? Was it the market rejecting too many brands? Was it DLP going bankrupt? Nope, none of that. It was MLB deciding to not renew their license. That's it. All your other claims to the contrary are simply wrong.

Also, your limited understanding of business seems to confer that one company being bought by another implies that the "purchased" company was in trouble. It's usually a matter of ownership cashing out or the "purchasing" company seeing VALUE in the other company. If your reasoning were somehow correct, then every company that bought another company would be doing so in an effort to buy a brand that no one wanted and thus, piss their money away. So when Fleer, O-Pee-Chee or Sky-Box get bought by a larger company, it's because that larger company wants the value that those other brands have.

And I also like how you want to ignore the Upper Deck situation, since it completely destroys your argument that the market was the death-knell to them. Your entire premise for limited releases by 1 company is that the market can't support them; yet there is no evidence (oh, I'm sorry, I forgot your curious link to the "Trading Card" entry in Wikipedia :benson: ) that the market couldn't support many, many products. What actually happened was MLB decided an increasing monoploly was desired, and many, many people have lamented that decision daily.

Game. Set. Match.

 

[Wes]

If what you want is to recoup your money, I have the solution for you.

1. Pull out your wallet.
2. Take out money.
3. Put it back in.
4. Put wallet away.

SUCCESS!

 

[ChasHawk]

This 'bigger' part makes no sense... the hobby became so 'big' with all the manufacturers and releases that it couldn't support itself causing manufacturers to go bankrupt and collectors to leave. 'Bigger', as we've seen, doesn't work.

BULLXXXX

Upper Deck and Donruss were kicked out of the business by MLBP and topps.

 

[ChasHawk]

Your reason for why people would lose interest is more choices, its illogical and seems like a personal agenda.

It is...and it is.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

OH, the link to wikipedia /THREAD!

Donruss, DLP and Leaf were all the same company, so you've just proven that you know nothing about what you're talking about and indicated that you are the one who needs to do some research.

I hate answering a question with a question, but riddle me this historian: what caused Donruss/Playoff to stop making baseball cards after 2005? Was it the market rejecting too many brands? Was it DLP going bankrupt? Nope, none of that. It was MLB deciding to not renew their license. That's it. All your other claims to the contrary are simply wrong.

Also, your limited understanding of business seems to confer that one company being bought by another implies that the "purchased" company was in trouble. It's usually a matter of ownership cashing out or the "purchasing" company seeing VALUE in the other company. If your reasoning were somehow correct, then every company that bought another company would be doing so in an effort to buy a brand that no one wanted and thus, piss their money away. So when Fleer, O-Pee-Chee or Sky-Box get bought by a larger company, it's because that larger company wants the value that those other brands have.

And I also like how you want to ignore the Upper Deck situation, since it completely destroys your argument that the market was the death-knell to them. Your entire premise for limited releases by 1 company is that the market can't support them; yet there is no evidence (oh, I'm sorry, I forgot your curious link to the "Trading Card" entry in Wikipedia :benson: ) that the market couldn't support many, many products. What actually happened was MLB decided an increasing monoploly was desired, and many, many people have lamented that decision daily.

Donruss and Leaf were obviously not the same as DLP:benson: ... and you're still refusing to do your research. Spend some time and look at Fleer, Donruss and Pinnacle in particular; figure out HOW UD was able to purchase Fleer.

You don't know how financially viable DLP was in '05...however MLB did. Being around only 3-4 years when they lost their license its questionable to think they could've survived the economic downturn and the competition.

You can have Upper Deck and the shady practices it employs in order to try to stave off bankruptcy. They're not deserving of a license, obviously the licensing body agreed.

Not only was the hobby too small support the slew of manufacturers, people in the hobby had to constantly sell on eBay in order to stay in the hobby themselves. Many still do have to sell in order to stay in the hobby and assuming you're one of these people you're sure to see your sales decrease with increased choice. You might even have to leave the hobby with more choice.

There's still no reason to think, especially in this economy, that any more 'choice' would be adequately supported given the demise of manufacturers during the last real economic boom.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

BULLXXXX

Upper Deck and Donruss were kicked out of the business by MLBP and topps.

Sure, they were weak. But Donruss isn't DLP.

 

[sportscardtheory]

DLP = Donruss/Leaf/Playoff

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

DLP = Donruss/Leaf/Playoff

Read what happened to Donruss

 

[hive17]

Donruss and Leaf were obviously not the same as DLP:benson: ... So exacxtly which company was it that made 2003 Leaf Certified Materials? and you're still refusing to do your research. Now who needs to do research? Spend some time and look at Fleer, Donruss and Pinnacle in particular; figure out HOW UD was able to purchase Fleer. Because Fleer was looking to sell out and UD saw value in continuing the name

You don't know how financially viable DLP was in '05...however MLB did You have ZERO proof of that and no one ever said that, so, um, feel free to keep making stuff up. Being around only 3-4 years when they lost their license its questionable to think they could've survived the economic downturn and the competition. "Questionable" huh? Ahh, questionable prediction, the basis for EVERY solid argument

You can have Upper Deck and the shady practices it employs in order to try to stave off bankruptcy. They're not deserving of a license, obviously the licensing body agreed. And once again, that takes more creedance from your "market" argument. I'm not saying you're wrong about UD being shady; but you are then admitting that I'm right, that it WASN'T the market that ended UD's baseball run.

Not only was the hobby too small support the slew of manufacturers, people in the hobby had to constantly sell on eBay in order to stay in the hobby themselves. I don't think it's possible for you to post a less-relevant point Many still do have to sell in order to stay in the hobby and assuming you're one of these people you're sure to see your sales decrease with increased choice. You might even have to leave the hobby with more choice. You have completely lost EVERYONE at this point. Does anyone even understand what this guy is talking about here?

There's still no reason to think, especially in this economy, that any more 'choice' would be adequately supported given the demise of manufacturers during the last real economic boom.

I have never seen a response filled with so much fail... :benson:

 

[sportscardtheory]

Read what happened to Donruss

So what. A card with Donruss on it is a Donruss card regardless of who owns the company. Same with Leaf and Playoff.

 

[ChasHawk]

Sure, they were weak. But Donruss isn't DLP.

I meant DLP, but it doesn't matter.

You're so full of XXXX, you've convinced yourself that you're infallible.

 

[hive17]

Read what happened to Donruss

Nothing in that link supports any point you are making.

I'm going to ask a serious question: what do YOU see when you read that wikipedia post? Because it has to be something different from what the rest of us see.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

I have never seen a response filled with so much fail... :benson:

This is just you talking. You've nothing to back up what you've said. Read the research I provided and come back if you've any self-respect.

 

[sportscardtheory]

I guess faulty reasoning and flawed opinion equals "research".

 

[ChasHawk]

This is just you talking. You've nothing to back up what you've said. Read the research I provided and come back if you've any self-respect.

:lol:

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

I meant DLP, but it doesn't matter.

You're so full of XXXX, you've convinced yourself that you're infallible.

So what. A card with Donruss on it is a Donruss card regardless of who owns the company. Same with Leaf and Playoff.

Sure it matters because none of you guys can get anything straight... so why should anyone listen to you?

Nothing in that link supports any point you are making.

I'm going to ask a serious question: what do YOU see when you read that wikipedia post? Because it has to be something different from what the rest of us see.

If you were to actually read it you'd probably figure out that Donruss is associated with bankruptcy and lack of financial strength... although I'm not holding my breath that you'd be able to figure anything out.

 

[hive17]

This is just you talking. You've nothing to back up what you've said. Read the research I provided and come back if you've any self-respect.

You have provided nothing but links to wikipedia that don't back-up your point and in some cases, back my point up (specifically in your Donruss, where it says that MLB, NOT the market, took DLP out of the baseball card business).

I have the history of wht actually happened backing me up; YOU have your silly predictions of what WOULD have happened, and unsupported claims "backing you up".

Again, I can't remember a time that so much fail was accomplished so effortlessly.

 

[hive17]

If you were to actually read it you'd probably figure out that Donruss is associated with bankruptcy and lack of financial strength... although I'm not holding my breath that you'd be able to figure anything out.

You mean when Pinnacle filed for bankruptcy in 1998? So? Playoff Corp. bought the line and they went right back to making stuff. And they didn't stop until the MLB took their license away after 2005. NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING about DLP losing their license in 2005 had to do with your insane claim that the market was falling apart. In fact, DLP had JUST put out the greatest modern release (2005 Absolute Update).

So, I'll make this an easy question that I want you to respond to: Did MLB limit the number of brands allowed in the market, or did the market?

Simple question.