The REAL HR KINGS?

[bodiaz]

Only one King these days, King Bonds. Aaron is former king, and Maris is really old hat! Mcgwire and Sosa even passed him! Maris and his 300 foot right field fence was a much bigger advantage than anyone with steroids!

 

[ChasHawk]

Only one King these days, King Bonds. Aaron is former king, and Maris is really old hat! Mcgwire and Sosa even passed him! Maris and his 300 foot right field fence was a much bigger advantage than anyone with steroids!

Says the world's #1 steroid apologist. :lol:

 

[braves2008champs]

 

[henderson939]

I think the possibility of anyone hitting 61 or more again will be tough.

For Pujols to get to 756, he will have to maintain his average of 42 HR per year for the
next 9 1/2 years, and not be proven to have taken anything.

For the record Mike - I don't give a shat what records MLB recognies. The records are 61 & 755[/quote


exactly

 

[UMich92]

I think the possibility of anyone hitting 61 or more again will be tough.

For Pujols to get to 756, he will have to maintain his average of 42 HR per year for the
next 9 1/2 years, and not be proven to have taken anything.

For the record Mike - I don't give a shat what records MLB recognies. The records are 61 & 755

+1 They recognize them but with an asterisk*
61 has held for 48 years now and the MARIS family wants the record restored too

Roger Maris family wants '61' home-run record restored
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Roger+Maris+family+wants+home+record+restored/2437434/story.html

A lot of fans might put an asterisk after Bonds' records, but the official MLB record books do not.

Alex

 

[vwnut13]

I think the possibility of anyone hitting 61 or more again will be tough.

For Pujols to get to 756, he will have to maintain his average of 42 HR per year for the
next 9 1/2 years, and not be proven to have taken anything.

For the record Mike - I don't give a shat what records MLB recognies. The records are 61 & 755

exactly

Alex Rodriguez needs only 22.75 HR per year over the last 8 years of his contract in order to break 756.

Rodriguez had 30 Home Runs last season coming off hip surgery.

If he hits 29HR a season for the next 6 years he will have 757 HR

Taking steroids in the past or not, if A-Rod can stay healthy for 6 years I see no reason as to why he can't hit more than 756 HR

 

[ChasHawk]

I think the possibility of anyone hitting 61 or more again will be tough.

For Pujols to get to 756, he will have to maintain his average of 42 HR per year for the
next 9 1/2 years, and not be proven to have taken anything.

For the record Mike - I don't give a shat what records MLB recognies. The records are 61 & 755

exactly

Alex Rodriguez needs only 22.75 HR per year over the last 8 years of his contract in order to break 756.

Rodriguez had 30 Home Runs last season coming off hip surgery.

If he hits 29HR a season for the next 6 years he will have 757 HR

Taking steroids in the past or not, if A-Rod can stay healthy for 6 years I see no reason as to why he can't hit more than 756 HR

Now that the "steroid era" is pretty much over, Do you think anyone not accused of steroids will ever beat

MARIS 61 Single Season HR record
or
HANKS 755 Career HR Record

?????

 

[hive17]

I think the one thing we aren't looking at is power players moving to teams that will benefit them even more. Take Prince or Howard and put them on the Yanks or Red Sox and make the the DH, and all of a sudden you have more protection than they've ever had and can free swing.

PLUS, as was alluded to by bodiaz, put thos guys in a HR-friendly park, and it could get even crazier. Although bodiaz tends to ignore the fact that 40% of Bonds' HRs at home went to left center, which is a whopping 64 feet farther than he attacks Maris for having, or only 39ft if it's to left field; and that Maris hit more of his 61-record-breaking HRs on the road.

 

[hofautos]

+1

Sweet card...

 

[darocker80]

I think the one thing we aren't looking at is power players moving to teams that will benefit them even more. Take Prince or Howard and put them on the Yanks or Red Sox and make the the DH, and all of a sudden you have more protection than they've ever had and can free swing.

PLUS, as was alluded to by bodiaz, put thos guys in a HR-friendly park, and it could get even crazier. Although bodiaz tends to ignore the fact that 40% of Bonds' HRs at home went to left center, which is a whopping 64 feet farther than he attacks Maris for having, or only 39ft if it's to left field; and that Maris hit more of his 61-record-breaking HRs on the road.

But there is a reason why our park scared away jason bay, adam laroche and other power hitters. Purely, AT@T is the hardest park to hit HRs in with the only one close being Petco

 

[ThoseBackPages]

I think the one thing we aren't looking at is power players moving to teams that will benefit them even more. Take Prince or Howard and put them on the Yanks or Red Sox and make the the DH, and all of a sudden you have more protection than they've ever had and can free swing.

PLUS, as was alluded to by bodiaz, put thos guys in a HR-friendly park, and it could get even crazier. Although bodiaz tends to ignore the fact that 40% of Bonds' HRs at home went to left center, which is a whopping 64 feet farther than he attacks Maris for having, or only 39ft if it's to left field; and that Maris hit more of his 61-record-breaking HRs on the road.

But there is a reason why our park scared away jason bay, adam laroche and other power hitters. Purely, AT@T is the hardest park to hit HRs in with the only one close being Petco

Chiti Field is no place to hit home runs.

Yours Truly,
David White

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Some people claim that the most popular games in a society mirror how that society behaves or what it values.

So although I consider Maris and Aaron the most talented home run hitters of all-time, Bonds represents something about American society during the years he played. Anyone's willingness, or lack thereof, to accept Bonds as the real HR king at least partially reflects that person's societal values.

I like the asterisk * there, because it shows that society isn't black and white, and says something about the mixed values we all feel here.

 

[hofautos]

Anyone's willingness, or lack thereof, to accept Bonds as the real HR king at least partially reflects that person's societal values.

I like the asterisk * there, because it shows that society isn't black and white, and says something about the mixed values we all feel here.

^^Agree 100%.
I personallly respect, accept an apology, and forgive anyone who admits steroid usage. I understand why they were not forthcoming given their situations. I understand the pressure and even understand the action of using the steroids in the first place, and I am not above any of it. I just believe the previous records should be restored (and in my mind, they are restored, regardless of MLB or anyone else's opinion).

IMHO The next person to hit 62+ HR in a single season, without steroid usage, should be celebrated in like fashion to the SOSA/MCGWIRE HR Chase, unfortunately those days, if/when they ever come, will be deflated.

 

[moxacaine]

Just playing devil's advocate:

Who's to say 61 and 755 are clean? Amphetamines were pretty prevelant back then. Plus, imagine Maris's career path today. People would scream steroids.

Ive been saying this from the beginning. Steroids have been around since the 40's who is to say Maris and Aaron didnt take them? If we're going to blindly accuse current players then we have to do the same for them.

 

[hofautos]

... If we're going to blindly accuse current players then we have to do the same for them (inferred Aaron and Maris).

blindly accuse current players? Are you talking Bonds? I wouldn't consider him "current" and I don't know of any other current players that are being accused for the sake of this discussion.

If you are talking Bonds, I wouldn't call it blindly...and do you honestly believe he didn't do steroids?
Just because 99% of America knows Bonds did steroids, doesn't mean we HAVE to accuse Aaron and Maris of doing steroids??.
I see ZERO logic to support such a statement.

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

Now that amphetamines are illegal in baseball, is it "fair" to consider Aaron and Maris' numbers as legitimate in today's game? Perhaps the numbers should all be noted.

Single Season Home Run Record: 61* - Roger Maris
Single Season Home Run Record: 73** - Barry Bonds
Career Home Run Record: 755* - Hank Aaron
Career Home Run Record: 762* - Barry Bonds

* Signifies that players were expected to use amphetamines, and this now illegal practice was promoted by owners and managers.
** Signifies that players were not tested and steroid usage should be assumed.

Can we go back far enough with truly "pristine" numbers anywhere in baseball's history? Do we know who was or wasn't eating sheep testicles? Was baseball ever pristine and saintly?

But hey, if we're in an archaic mood of showing off our asterisking skill, I think we should rethink the pitching records as well. Is it "fair" that early modern era pitchers pitched every 4th day instead of every 5th day like today? Is it fair that all pitchers had to hit until the 70s? Perhaps hitting benefits the pitcher as well, and now half of the league is excluded through the use of a "home run" hitter called a DH.

Is it possible that the true evidence of steroid usage in baseball is the advent of the DH?

Is Nolan Ryan really to be considered the "modern" single season strikeout king with his 383 Ks in 1973? That season he thew 326 innings. Randy Johnson's total of 372 in 2001 was accomplished in 75 less innings. Nolan Ryan had a clear advantage by starting 5 more games than Johnson simply due to baseball's standard practices of the time.

Seriously, we can go back and put asterisks on anything and partition baseball's history as it probably should be, but we don't. Instead we get self-righteous and want to look at history through rose colored glasses and attempt to relive an age that never existed.

Anyone who thought for a second that a guy like Bonds wasn't using (or McGwire, Sosa, etc for that matter) should have no valid opinion. Hell, they shouldn't have health care or the right to vote either. Clearly that type of person doesn't have the brain power for rational thought. The same could be said about amphetamine usage, if you don't think Aaron and Maris used amphetamines you clearly can't process the differences between reality and fantasy. So stick the Magic and D&D...or coloring books.

Oh, I know, "baseball didn't ban amphetamines," blah blah blah, but the United States did. Which is often an argument used in steroid discussions. "They were illegal." And okay sure, baseball had a sentence in place outlawing steroids, but does that really matter? Baseball is full of rules that are interpreted in different ways and some enforced and not enforced. It's fairly accepted practice to drive 7 miles an hour over the speed limit, but it's clearly illegal.

So tell me, how can an accepted practice that the majority follow really be considered illegal?

All in all, it's easy to get caught up a little fantasy world thinking that Hank Aaron is sitting on a pedestal of purity because of some weird fairytale remembrance of baseball decades ago. That fairytale is no different than Jack on the Beanstalk.

You want to know the major difference between baseball today and years ago? Reporters didn't report the negative things about players decades ago. Today, however, it means a book deal.

No news is not the same as without fault.

Do I think everyone is guilty? No, but I accept that as a possibly for the simple reason that baseball by era has always been a level playing field, but "era" is key. Baseball allows caffeine usage? But for the Mormon players out there, they cannot consume caffeine for religious beliefs? Baseball is still a level playing field even though all players may or may not participate in usage.

Oh, and if I hear another "innocent until proven guilty" crap line, I'll puke. You understand that the court of public opinion in not a court of law. Not to mention just because someone was not proven guilty in a court of law that it does not make them innocent.

Yeah yeah yeah, it's long, snarky and probably a waste of space...but steroid discussion is always such a joke about reliving a fantasy world past of non-existence.

 

[moxacaine]

... If we're going to blindly accuse current players then we have to do the same for them (inferred Aaron and Maris).

blindly accuse current players? Are you talking Bonds? I wouldn't consider him "current" and I don't know of any other current players that are being accused for the sake of this discussion.

If you are talking Bonds, I wouldn't call it blindly...and do you honestly believe he didn't do steroids?
Just because 99% of America knows Bonds did steroids, doesn't mean we HAVE to accuse Aaron and Maris of doing steroids??.
I see ZERO logic to support such a statement.

Ive never said Bonds did or did not use but ignorantly saying he did with out proof is wrong. And yes if i had to bet on it i would say he did. My blindly statement was a generalized comment and did not pertain to any one player. And why cant we accuse Maris or Aaron? They were not illegal at the time and not being tested for so who is to say they were not taking them?

 

[hofautos]

^^ I trust individuals unless a reason is given to believe otherwise...I maintain this attitude in all aspects of life.

If Hank Aaron admitted that he used drugs, or there was substantiated proof that he did, I would agree with above.

Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa are the only players that have records above Maris and Aaron, so any other player doesn't really fit into discussion.
The only other current player "in my mind" that is NOT elgible but capable of breaking the records is AROD...but I think his body will breakdown before he gets close anyway.

 

[moxacaine]

^^ I trust individuals unless a reason is given to believe otherwise...I maintain this attitude in all aspects of life.

If Hank Aaron admitted that he used drugs, or there was substantiated proof that he did, I would agree with above.

Look at it this way. If we would switch Aaron and Bonds as far as era. Bonds would be squeeky clean because there was nothing ever to prove it and Aaron would be the one getting the 3rd degree about roids whether he did them or not.

 

[hofautos]

^^ I trust individuals unless a reason is given to believe otherwise...I maintain this attitude in all aspects of life.

If Hank Aaron admitted that he used drugs, or there was substantiated proof that he did, I would agree with above.

Look at it this way. If we would switch Aaron and Bonds as far as era. Bonds would be squeeky clean because there was nothing ever to prove it and Aaron would be the one getting the 3rd degree about roids whether he did them or not.

Thats a big IF. Hank Aaron DID play in a different era, so in my mind, there is no reason to even consider that scenario.
If Hank Aaron was built like bonds....If Hank Aaron did play in this ERa...if Hank Aaron was on trial for lying...if..if..if..

Things are as they are...Bonds owns the HR Records* because of steroids. Hank Aaron and Maris own the legitmate record because they did not.
I am perfectly happy with the asterisk, and I don't understand those that don't see that logic.
We agree to disagree.