This is why Schilling, Mussina, Halladay, etc. will make the HOF some day

[markakis8]

May take a few years with the ballot being crowded but I predict in about 7-8 years, Schilling, Mussina, and Halladay will all be in, paving the way for a new crop of HOF starting pitchers.

I did not realize that no SP that started their career after 1970 has made it into the HOF. That blows my mind.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/43236/time-to-elect-some-starting-pitchers-to-hall

I really think we are going to have 2-4 players making the HOF each year the next 6-8 years. I can see it playing out like this:

2014 inductees:

Maddux
Glavine
Thomas
Biggio

2015:

Pedro
Big Unit
Smoltz
Piazza

2016:

Griffey
Mussina

2017:

Vlad
Pudge
Schilling

2018:

Chipper
Bagwell
Kent

This doesn't even include the steroid guys. I could see Bonds getting in after Griffey does, which obv opens the doors for Sosa, McGwire, Clemens, Manny, etc.

 

[BiggioBrooks755]

Its the Hall Of Fame not the Hall Of Very Good

 

[metallicalex777]

Its the Hall Of Fame not the Hall Of Very Good

Are you saying that all starting pitchers can only be very good and no chance of being better?

 

[BiggioBrooks755]

No sir, what I am saying is stop letting EVERYBODY in...Its the same way with "Everybody gets a medal" thing

You need to be AMAZING as a pitcher for most of your career to get in to the HOF IMO

Just my opinion though

 

[MansGame]

I've said it once and I'll say it again...

Jeff Kent won't sniff the front porch of the HOF

 

[Austin]

Its the Hall Of Fame not the Hall Of Very Good

You keep repeating that in HOF threads.
And I guess that means you don't think Biggio is a Hall of Famer.
He was a very good player, but never truely great, and was a classic stat compiler, who played too long past his prime to reach mestone numbers.
Very few people thought of Biggio as a future HOFer until late in his career when 3,000 was a possibility.

 

[BiggioBrooks755]

You keep repeating that in HOF threads.
And I guess that means you don't think Biggio is a Hall of Famer.
He was a very good player, but never truely great, and was a classic stat compiler, who played too long past his prime to reach mestone numbers.
Very few people thought of Biggio as a future HOFer until late in his career when 3,000 was a possibility.

Through baseball history, stats and #s mean everything. 3000 hits, 500 homeruns, and 300 wins

Biggio has one of the 3

How many of those guys have 300 wins?

 

[Austin]

How many of those guys have 300 wins?

So then Sandy Koufax, Pedro Martinez, Bob Feller, etc. aren't Hall of Famers because they didn't or couldn't play poorly for longer so they could reach arbitrary milestone numbers?
You're saying Craig Biggio is a more worthy Hall of Fame second baseman than Joe Morgan, Charlie Gehringer, Rogers Hornsby, etc. because they don't have 3,000 hits?

 

[Therion]

So then Sandy Koufax, Pedro Martinez, Bob Feller, etc. aren't Hall of Famers because they didn't or couldn't play poorly for longer so they could reach arbitrary milestone numbers?
You're saying Craig Biggio is a more worthy Hall of Fame second baseman than Joe Morgan, Charlie Gehringer, Rogers Hornsby, etc. because they don't have 3,000 hits?

Your argument against him because he is a "stat compiler" is odd. Here is a list of members of the 3,000 Hit Club http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3,000_hit_club

Which of them don't belong in the HOF? Because almost all of them played LONGER than Craig Biggio. I personally feel that Bagwell is a more sure-fire HOFer but Biggio belongs. He hit the magic number.

 

[BiggioBrooks755]

Your argument against him because he is a "stat compiler" is odd. Here is a list of members of the 3,000 Hit Club http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3,000_hit_club

Which of them don't belong in the HOF? Because almost all of them played LONGER than Craig Biggio. I personally feel that Bagwell is a more sure-fire HOFer but Biggio belongs. He hit the magic number.

The only 2 that dont belong in the Hall are Pete Rose and Rafael Palmerio

 

[Austin]

Your argument against him because he is a "stat compiler" is odd. Here is a list of members of the 3,000 Hit Club http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3,000_hit_club
Which of them don't belong in the HOF? Because almost all of them played LONGER than Craig Biggio.

The other members of the 3,000 hit club had multiple tremendous individual seasons, whether it be many batting titles like Cobb, Carew, Gwynn, Boggs, etc., several MVP-calibur seasons like Mays, Aaron, Henderson, Musial, etc., career and season records like Aaron, Rose, Henderson, etc. or just overall great careers like Yaz, Ripken, Clemente, Wagner, Yount, Brett, Murray, Winfield, Molitor, etc.

Biggio was very good, but he didn't have individual seasons that made fans think, "that guy's a Hall of Famer."
He got 3,000 hits by being consistently good for a long time.

By the way, I only chose Biggio because BiggioBrooks always makes comments that the Hall of Fame is only for the greatest of players, so I wanted to challenge his opinion on who's a Hall of Famer.

 

[predatorkj]

I've said it once and I'll say it again...

Jeff Kent won't sniff the front porch of the HOF

Yes he will Mac. You can't say he won't because with hr's he hit, there's no chance they leave him out. Maybe you don't like it but I'm sorry.

As far as Biggio, he was never even the best player on his team. But I think he eventually gets in. The hall of very good stuff needs to stop. There is just no way a pitcher can compile the gaudy stats like they used to. So either don't elect anyone or realize that the players were great for their generation.

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[MansGame]

Yes he will Mac. You can't say he won't because with hr's he hit, there's no chance they leave him out. Maybe you don't like it but I'm sorry.

As far as Biggio, he was never even the best player on his team. But I think he eventually gets in. The hall of very good stuff needs to stop. There is just no way a pitcher can compile the gaudy stats like they used to. So either don't elect anyone or realize that the players were great for their generation.

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Because of the home runs he hit? What does that mean... You saying he has 500 or something?


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[corockies]

Because of the home runs he hit? What does that mean... You saying he has 500 or something?


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Jeff Kent:

National League MVP (2000)
5-time All-Star (1999–2001, 2004–05)[SUP][/SUP]
4-time Silver Slugger (2000–2002, 2005)[SUP][/SUP]
All-time leader in home runs as a second baseman (351)[SUP][/SUP]
Only second baseman to have 100 or more RBIs in 6 consecutive seasons (1997–2002)

Pretty nice credentials imo. Hall of famer? Who knows. Kent reminds me a lot of Todd Helton and Larry Walker when it comes to HOF voting - there's prob not enough there to vote them in.

 

[mrmopar]

I had a nice response typed up for Biggio as well, as I see the same comments coming from him, but it didn't post and was deleted. He is the ultimate milestone maker who doesn't seem to fit the greatest in the game mold.

The Hall of good is a crap answer. Right now, the Hall of fame represents less than 2% of the players who ever played the game. I feel there are probably a good 30-40 or more players who should be given strong consideration from a statistical standpoint. Many didn't have those massive years, but all played solid ball and had the longevity and were good enough to tally some great numbers. Guys like Al Oliver, Willie Davis, Vada Pinson, Tommy John, etc. these guys look like scrubs neat to the likes of Aaron, Mays, Ruth, Young, but again given that the current HOF only recognizes about 1.5% of all of the players who played the game, does it really need to be that exclusive? If you score 98% on a test or an evaluation, you are considered pretty damn good.

I think the HOF is a little too exclusive and it seems to have gotten more so in recent years. It seems that if players can't size up to the BEST OF THE BEST already in, then they are knocked down for it. How does the current player stack up to Hoyt Wilhelm or Phil Rizzuto or Ray Schalk or Billy Herman or Bill Mazeroski or Jim Hunter? There is room for some of those "just good" guys in my mind.

 

[gogosox40]

The only 2 that dont belong in the Hall are Pete Rose and Rafael Palmerio

I think you mean Biggio and Palmerio correct? Im already winded thinking of the argument for rose

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[BiggioBrooks755]

I think you mean Biggio and Palmerio correct? Im already winded thinking of the argument for rose

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He bet on baseball...He lied about it for 10+ years...You dont bet on baseball...Not hard to understand that

 

[MansGame]

Jeff Kent:

National League MVP (2000)
5-time All-Star (1999–2001, 2004–05)[SUP][/SUP]
4-time Silver Slugger (2000–2002, 2005)[SUP][/SUP]
All-time leader in home runs as a second baseman (351)[SUP][/SUP]
Only second baseman to have 100 or more RBIs in 6 consecutive seasons (1997–2002)

Pretty nice credentials imo. Hall of famer? Who knows. Kent reminds me a lot of Todd Helton and Larry Walker when it comes to HOF voting - there's prob not enough there to vote them in.

Couldn't agree more. Nice career and good guy but not a Hall of Famer.


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[gogosox40]

He bet on baseball...He lied about it for 10+ years...You dont bet on baseball...Not hard to understand that

He did it after he was done playing and racking up hits. He is one of the greatest players.

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[predatorkj]

Because of the home runs he hit? What does that mean... You saying he has 500 or something?


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Uh, who has more than him at than him at that position? Same reason Piazza will get in.