Top 10 pitchers for 2010

[kdailey4315]

[quote="ALL_THE_HYPE":3qmt72px]

I would definitely remove Jimenez from the list ... and replace him with Beckett or Wainwright

Never liked Beckett all that much, and while Waitwright was great last year, I like what Ubaldo has done last year and his first two starts this year. Could be a little presumptuous on my part though.

I think Beckett is vastly overrated as a Red Sox pitcher. His numbers always look good because he is a good pitcher on a great team, which leads to wins.

If he were on a bad team, his numbers would not look as impressive, because he would not have nearly as many wins over the last five years. It's basically the same argument that some people posed for CC/Greinke in the Cy Young race last year. Consider what their numbers would look like on a BAD/GOOD team rather than the one they are on.

And put him in a crappy division with terrible offensive teams and watch what happens. Pitchers in the AL East are vastly underrated considering what they have to face throughout the season. The Rays, Yanks, and Sox have accounted for 3 of the top 5 offenses in baseball over the last few years. Pitching against very good hitting teams in hitter friendly ball parks makes this argument pointless. Halladay is going to put up some video game numbers in the NL this year. Put Lincy in a hitters park in the AL East and watch his ERA jump by a full run easily.

If that's true then how come his away career ERA isn't a run higher? Last year it was but in 2008 it was actually lower on the road. Once again you fail at interpreting baseball talent.

John Smoltz and Brad Penny


/endgame[/quote:3qmt72px]

Really? Did you actually just counter with John Smoltz who was a shell of his former self with Boston? I'll give you Brad Penny but Smoltz?

 

[darocker80]

First off:
Lincecum > Beckett

1. Lincecum
2. Halladay
3. Santana
4. Hernandez
5. Sabathia
6. Greinke
7. Cain
8. Wainwright
9. Verlander
10. Carpenter

 

[Superfractor]

As long as Ubaldo is in the top-ten, I am good on any list. He's grown so much, since '07.

 

[darocker80]

As long as Ubaldo is in the top-ten, I am good on any list. He's grown so much, since '07.

then what is witih the sad face?

 

[Superfractor]

They are tears of joy - Haha.

 

[MallCopKJ]

[quote="ALL_THE_HYPE":18mgnepy]

[quote="Casey2884":18mgnepy]I would definitely remove Jimenez from the list ... and replace him with Beckett or Wainwright

Never liked Beckett all that much, and while Waitwright was great last year, I like what Ubaldo has done last year and his first two starts this year. Could be a little presumptuous on my part though.

I think Beckett is vastly overrated as a Red Sox pitcher. His numbers always look good because he is a good pitcher on a great team, which leads to wins.

If he were on a bad team, his numbers would not look as impressive, because he would not have nearly as many wins over the last five years. It's basically the same argument that some people posed for CC/Greinke in the Cy Young race last year. Consider what their numbers would look like on a BAD/GOOD team rather than the one they are on.

And put him in a crappy division with terrible offensive teams and watch what happens. Pitchers in the AL East are vastly underrated considering what they have to face throughout the season. The Rays, Yanks, and Sox have accounted for 3 of the top 5 offenses in baseball over the last few years. Pitching against very good hitting teams in hitter friendly ball parks makes this argument pointless. Halladay is going to put up some video game numbers in the NL this year. Put Lincy in a hitters park in the AL East and watch his ERA jump by a full run easily.

If that's true then how come his away career ERA isn't a run higher? Last year it was but in 2008 it was actually lower on the road. Once again you fail at interpreting baseball talent.

John Smoltz and Brad Penny


/endgame[/quote:18mgnepy]

Really? Did you actually just counter with John Smoltz who was a shell of his former self with Boston? I'll give you Brad Penny but Smoltz?[/quote:18mgnepy]

Yes, he looked like a shell of his former self in Boston but looked like his old self pitching back in the NL.

In 8 starts with Boston (40 innings): 59 hits, 37 earned runs, 8 homeruns.
In 8 starts with St Louis (40 Innings): 40 hits, 19 earned runs, 3 homeruns.

In his last game in the American League Smoltz went 3.1 innings, 9 hits, 8 runs, 8 ER, 3K's and 4 BB
In his first game in the National League Smoltz went 5 innings, 3 hits, 0 runs, 0 ER, 9 K's, 0 BB's.

 

[MallCopKJ]

Same thing with Brady Penny.

Penny's last six starts with Boston: 1-4 Record. 32 innings, 42 hits, 28 runs, 27 earned.

Penny's first six starts with STL: 4-1 record. 41.2 innings, 31 hits, 13 runs, 12 earned.

He never pitched past the 6th inning with Boston, yet he pitched a complete game with the Cardinals, he threw 8 innings 2 times and 7 innings 2 times.

 

[gt2590]

I intentionally didn't bring him up in an earlier post, but so far this year he hasn't earned a spot on this list, but I'm still kinda sad Jake Peavy's name hasn't come up yet.

But Buehrle should at least be mentioned...

 

[Jays_Cards]

Same thing with Brady Penny.

Penny's last six starts with Boston: 1-4 Record. 32 innings, 42 hits, 28 runs, 27 earned.

Penny's first six starts with STL: 4-1 record. 41.2 innings, 31 hits, 13 runs, 12 earned.

He never pitched past the 6th inning with Boston, yet he pitched a complete game with the Cardinals, he threw 8 innings 2 times and 7 innings 2 times.

You can't be rational with these little kids..Facts do not matter to them. To the geniuses: I never said Lincecum was not a top 10 pitcher nor did I say that Beckett was a better pitcher. I said that trying to compare a pitcher that pitches against San Diego, LAD, Colorado, and Arizona in one of the best pitchers' parks in baseball (except Colorado) with no DH to one that pitches against Tampa, Boston, New York, Baltimore, and Toronto in dominant hitting parks (except Toronto) with a DH is asinine.

 

[kdailey4315]

Same thing with Brady Penny.

Penny's last six starts with Boston: 1-4 Record. 32 innings, 42 hits, 28 runs, 27 earned.

Penny's first six starts with STL: 4-1 record. 41.2 innings, 31 hits, 13 runs, 12 earned.

He never pitched past the 6th inning with Boston, yet he pitched a complete game with the Cardinals, he threw 8 innings 2 times and 7 innings 2 times.

You can't be rational with these little kids..Facts do not matter to them. To the geniuses: I never said Lincecum was not a top 10 pitcher nor did I say that Beckett was a better pitcher. I said that trying to compare a pitcher that pitches against San Diego, LAD, Colorado, and Arizona in one of the best pitchers' parks in baseball (except Colorado) with no DH to one that pitches against Tampa, Boston, New York, Baltimore, and Toronto in dominant hitting parks (except Toronto) with a DH is asinine.

Do you even read people's posts? You claimed that if Lincecum didn't pitch in Pac Bell park his ERA would jump up at least a run. I proved you wrong with his career ERA home and away splits. That's all I was referring to little boy. Learn how to read.

 

[Jays_Cards]

Same thing with Brady Penny.

Penny's last six starts with Boston: 1-4 Record. 32 innings, 42 hits, 28 runs, 27 earned.

Penny's first six starts with STL: 4-1 record. 41.2 innings, 31 hits, 13 runs, 12 earned.

He never pitched past the 6th inning with Boston, yet he pitched a complete game with the Cardinals, he threw 8 innings 2 times and 7 innings 2 times.

You can't be rational with these little kids..Facts do not matter to them. To the geniuses: I never said Lincecum was not a top 10 pitcher nor did I say that Beckett was a better pitcher. I said that trying to compare a pitcher that pitches against San Diego, LAD, Colorado, and Arizona in one of the best pitchers' parks in baseball (except Colorado) with no DH to one that pitches against Tampa, Boston, New York, Baltimore, and Toronto in dominant hitting parks (except Toronto) with a DH is asinine.

Do you even read people's posts? You claimed that if Lincecum didn't pitch in Pac Bell park his ERA would jump up at least a run. I proved you wrong with his career ERA home and away splits. That's all I was referring to little boy. Learn how to read.

Stop following me you imbecile. I said that if you put him in the AL East in a hitters park his ERA would jump a run. How dumb are you?