Unbelieveable Redemption Replacement from Topps!

[Ty Hope]

the small percentage of people who are obsessed with getting equal value. Not everyone is like yourself, not many people demand equal 'value' for redemptions.

Really? The majority of collectors don't demand value? REALLY!? Please, enlighten us further with your words of wisdom... (on second thought, don't...)

 

[U L Washington Rookie]

What's the 'value' of a Hendrix redemption if Topps replaces it with Gooden autos once time and Harper autos another? Topps doesn't care, but someone obsessed with 'value' would be.

Yeah, 'cause a Hendrix card is right up the alley of those who collect Gooden and Harper. All for the love of the hobby.

And they must consider future value for those replacements that don't exist yet, otherwise they couldn't match value.

 

[matfanofold]

Does Topps state they do not assign future value to cards from a 'point of purchase' viewpoint?

Yes.

Does Topps routinely assign value to cards based on redemption replacements?

Yes.



Am I missing something? Is there more to this argument then this?

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

So, you admit that Topps recognizes value. Even if it's for your made-up statistic of .05% of collectors. Good, you finally see my point. Sorry you had to lose this argument, but if you were smarter, you might have had a chance. Good luck out there, it gets harder from here. Your condescending attutide and complete arrogance won't help you.

I'm still at a loss of why you think this threads' existance has any bearing on my point. You say Topps doesn't represent value. I call Topps and they represent value when they talk to me. The end. You can't debate those points and you've looked sad trying.

Thanks for allowing me to embarrass you once again...

But you're always at a loss generally speaking, this is nothing new, and yet you still post here. Ugh. Why?

Say it out loud and slowly now: "The very existence of this thread proves that I, hive, am wrong again because Topps didn't assign *current* 'Beckett value' to a Hendrix card and tens of thousands of other cards and this helps prove that Topps doesn't make representations on the *future* value of cards". Just say it and be done with it, say it with feeling and gusto and try not to slur the words if possible.

When you talk replacement 'value' to a rep you're the one assigning the value, not Topps. Its simply time for you to recognize that Topps doesn't think of the hobby as a business for collectors, doesn't particularly care and is often not even knowledgeable about the secondary market enough to understand 'equal value'. Why? Because Topps sends Gooden auto replacements for Hendrix cards. You know, just like in this thread. Yes, it happened right here! Really.

Math and critical reasoning are obviously among your numerous weaknesses; trying to hide behind insults don't help, and, again makes you look small. Again, you lost before you even started. The good thing is that you're still a great straight man and I (and others) look forward to roping you in again.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Yeah but topps doesn't even replace items by cost factor. They'll take card that cost them or would cost them $20 to make and replace it with one that cost them $2.00 to make. As a hobbyist, that can suck because chances are you go from being able to get a good card of a good player to most likely a no-namer that you don't even collect. Not to add to the problem that if you buy a redemption on the secondary market, you collect that player or team or whatever(Hendrix items). I've had topps and UD ask me what teams or players I collect and I tell them Astros, texans, rockets, and then about 5-10 players, most of whom wouldn't be considered hobby stars and I still get crap like a Juaquin Eglesias autos. Yay! I mean damn, I just gave you three sports, three teams, and multiple players. And no, none of the players were Harper, Pujols, Jeter etc..

I'm all for this staying a hobby but you and me both know topps and others charge so much that for many, it's hard to strictly be a hobby. Or a simple one at that. And I agree that many people do assume this board is indicative of the whole but a lot of us know it's not. This place is like a laboratory compared to the messiness that is the hobby on the wild. Things are much more concise and orderly here. People have a great combined knowledge here. That's hard to find at shops and shows.

Yes, I'm not saying the redemption replacement process is good or bad - its the way it is. Its a mess for any company to try and manage. Redemptions are sometimes necessary to feed the insatiable demand (gluttony? LOL) of some people and to try to get people to buy unopened product.

All this is really complicated for simple baseball cards. People want stuff that our simple hobby isn't going to be able to support.

Does Topps state they do not assign future value to cards from a 'point of purchase' viewpoint?

Yes.

Does Topps routinely assign value to cards based on redemption replacements?

Yes.

Am I missing something? Is there more to this argument then this?

Topps doesn't assign *future* value to cards.

 

[hive17]

But you're always at a loss generally speaking, this is nothing new, and yet you still post here. Ugh. Why?

Say it out loud and slowly now: "The very existence of this thread proves that I, hive, am wrong again because Topps didn't assign *current* 'Beckett value' to a Hendrix card and tens of thousands of other cards and this helps prove that Topps doesn't make representations on the *future* value of cards". Just say it and be done with it, say it with feeling and gusto and try not to slur the words if possible.

When you talk replacement 'value' to a rep you're the one assigning the value, not Topps. Its simply time for you to recognize that Topps doesn't think of the hobby as a business for collectors, doesn't particularly care and is often not even knowledgeable about the secondary market enough to understand 'equal value'. Why? Because Topps sends Gooden auto replacements for Hendrix cards. You know, just like in this thread. Yes, it happened right here! Really.

Math and critical reasoning are obviously among your numerous weaknesses; trying to hide behind insults don't help, and, again makes you look small. Again, you lost before you even started. The good thing is that you're still a great straight man and I (and others) look forward to roping you in again.

Wow, even with no one backing you up and you completely missing the point, you still fail to understand.

Your misunderstanding of simple timelines is baffling. ANY time you call Topps about a replacement, you're talking to them in the FUTURE of the release. They assign value at a time that is forward of the release, thus, in the future of that release. Plain and simple. Not simple enough for you, but simple enough for everyone else here.

And you've proven yet again, that you have no clue how this process works, as is proven in your second paragraph. Just recently, I called about getting my Matt Harvey Platinum auto replaced:

"Hello," said the operator, "how can I help you?"
"I have a Matt Harvey Platinum auto redemption pending, and I'd just like a replacement," says the guy that understands this whole process (hint: that's ME, and is very clearly not YOU)
"Yeah, we've been trying to get him to sign and we're having a tough time," says the customer service rep.
"No worries. I'll just have you send me a replcement," I say.
"OK. You will receive a replacement card that is roughly equal in value according to Beckett Price Guide Monthly," she says.
"Alright. Thanks." I hang up and fear that I will get some scrub auto that happens to coincide with a value that Beckett has mystifyingly applied to both the Harvey card and that scrub. To my surprise, I got a Manny Machado 2010 Bowman Chrome Draft auto, meaning that Topps is very aware of the value of the missing Harvey card and wants to send me a card that would be about equal. Yet at no pint in the conversation with the CS rep did I mention value; Topps did.

Was that simple enough for you?

Your failed attempts to make this into a symantic argument notwithstanding, you've admitted that Topps does indeed apply value to cards it produces or even fails to produce. Yet your first post in this thread was a glib attempt to make the counter point, and you've failed ever since.

Your claim about the existance of this thread only proves that Topps SUCKS at applying value to their cards; it does not prove your asinine point that Topps makes no representations about value, past, present, or in the future.

Get at least ONE person here to agree with you, and I'll continue to listen to your ramblings. But you just being obtuse to win an argument is sad.

 

[hive17]

Yes, I'm not saying the redemption replacement process is good or bad - its the way it is. Its a mess for any company to try and manage. Redemptions are sometimes necessary to feed the insatiable demand (gluttony? LOL) of some people and to try to get people to buy unopened product.

All this is really complicated for simple baseball cards. People want stuff that our simple hobby isn't going to be able to support.



Topps doesn't assign *future* value to cards.

You know, here's how you could have made your point that MIGHT have sat with a few people (as opposed to the ZERO that agree with you now).

DISCLAIMER: You'll get no credit for making this point, since you couldn't pull this thought together.

Topps sends you the Gooden for the Hendrix because they can then blithely say "Well, at some magical point in the future, that Gooden autograph might be worth the same as the Hendix card that we're not going to produce, who could possibly predict that?"

That argument MIGHT fly, if not for the fact that Topps still references value when you talk to a CS rep and knows full-well that when we're talking about replacements, we're both (the customer and Topps) referencing some secondary market valuation. Well, not the same valuation (Gooden for Hendrix?), but the same idea of a secondary market valuation.

Jezz, not only have I made MY point, I've somehow made YOUR point better than YOU ever could. Sad day for you I guess.

 

[predatorkj]

Hey! Now the last time anyone called another person "obtuse", they got locked in solitary!

 

[hive17]

Hey! Now the last time anyone called another person "obtuse", they got locked in solitary!

I wasn't even making that reference, but you'll get the cool points none the less

 

[predatorkj]

I wasn't even making that reference, but you'll get the cool points none the less

Glad it was picked up!

 

[phillyfan0417]

Whenever it is one person who is trying to make the point vs. everyone else, there is only one real answer...

everyone but one person is wrong or doesnt understand that topps or any other company knows whats best for you.

You gotta give unique some credit though, he is willing to go down with his ship even if its to the bottom of the ocean and he's the only one on it.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Wow, even with no one backing you up and you completely missing the point, you still fail to understand.

Your misunderstanding of simple timelines is baffling. ANY time you call Topps about a replacement, you're talking to them in the FUTURE of the release. They assign value at a time that is forward of the release, thus, in the future of that release. Plain and simple. Not simple enough for you, but simple enough for everyone else here.

And you've proven yet again, that you have no clue how this process works, as is proven in your second paragraph. Just recently, I called about getting my Matt Harvey Platinum auto replaced:

"Hello," said the operator, "how can I help you?"
"I have a Matt Harvey Platinum auto redemption pending, and I'd just like a replacement," says the guy that understands this whole process (hint: that's ME, and is very clearly not YOU)
"Yeah, we've been trying to get him to sign and we're having a tough time," says the customer service rep.
"No worries. I'll just have you send me a replcement," I say.
"OK. You will receive a replacement card that is roughly equal in value according to Beckett Price Guide Monthly," she says.
"Alright. Thanks." I hang up and fear that I will get some scrub auto that happens to coincide with a value that Beckett has mystifyingly applied to both the Harvey card and that scrub. To my surprise, I got a Manny Machado 2010 Bowman Chrome Draft auto, meaning that Topps is very aware of the value of the missing Harvey card and wants to send me a card that would be about equal. Yet at no pint in the conversation with the CS rep did I mention value; Topps did.

Was that simple enough for you?

Your failed attempts to make this into a symantic argument notwithstanding, you've admitted that Topps does indeed apply value to cards it produces or even fails to produce. Yet your first post in this thread was a glib attempt to make the counter point, and you've failed ever since.

Your claim about the existance of this thread only proves that Topps SUCKS at applying value to their cards; it does not prove your asinine point that Topps makes no representations about value, past, present, or in the future.

Get at least ONE person here to agree with you, and I'll continue to listen to your ramblings. But you just being obtuse to win an argument is sad.

I'm not the guy looking to bash Topps because its not business-like and I'm not the guy complaining because he doesn't understand the policies involved.

You choose to apply what you think is the real redemption policy over what is the company policy... which is stupid. Topps doesn't suck at applying value, it just doesn't care. Nor should it. You care about value, but you clearly don't understand policy.

There is no 'FUTURE of the RELEASE' as you imagine because the card never existed in any release or set, to say otherwise is using semantics at best. Again... this imaginary card you're constantly referring to is not part of any set whatsoever. But yet you pretend it still exists and treat it like a real card with a future. Who is delusional?

There is no future value of a card that was never created, only current value of its redemption. The card should have been made but wasn't. Topps HAS to give you a replacement - at this very specific point and we haven't seen that it cares what this replacement is despite what their reps tell you on the phone... as is evidenced by this very thread and hundreds of others. Again, you lose this discussion by default.

You can't even say what value Topps assigned to the Hendrix card, can you?

The end result that applies in this case is:
Topps does not, in any manner, make any representations as to whether its cards will attain any future value."

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

You know, here's how you could have made your point that MIGHT have sat with a few people (as opposed to the ZERO that agree with you now).

DISCLAIMER: You'll get no credit for making this point, since you couldn't pull this thought together.

Topps sends you the Gooden for the Hendrix because they can then blithely say "Well, at some magical point in the future, that Gooden autograph might be worth the same as the Hendix card that we're not going to produce, who could possibly predict that?"

That argument MIGHT fly, if not for the fact that Topps still references value when you talk to a CS rep and knows full-well that when we're talking about replacements, we're both (the customer and Topps) referencing some secondary market valuation. Well, not the same valuation (Gooden for Hendrix?), but the same idea of a secondary market valuation.

Jezz, not only have I made MY point, I've somehow made YOUR point better than YOU ever could. Sad day for you I guess.

You still think you understand the stated redemption policy without understanding the company policy. What's it like to be so confused and angry all the time?

 

[hive17]

I'm not the guy looking to bash Topps because its not business-like and I'm not the guy complaining because he doesn't understand the policies involved.

You choose to apply what you think is the real redemption policy over what is the company policy... which is stupid. Topps doesn't suck at applying value, it just doesn't care. Nor should it. You care about value, but you clearly don't understand policy.

There is no 'FUTURE of the RELEASE' as you imagine because the card never existed in any release or set, to say otherwise is using semantics at best. Again... this imaginary card you're constantly referring to is not part of any set whatsoever. But yet you pretend it still exists and treat it like a real card with a future. Who is delusional?

There is no future value of a card that was never created, only current value of its redemption. The card should have been made but wasn't. Topps HAS to give you a replacement - at this very specific point and we haven't seen that it cares what this replacement is despite what their reps tell you on the phone... as is evidenced by this very thread and hundreds of others. Again, you lose this discussion by default.

You can't even say what value Topps assigned to the Hendrix card, can you?

The end result that applies in this case is:
Topps does not, in any manner, make any representations as to whether its cards will attain any future value."

Please tell me what my very real transaction with the Topps customer service representative says about Topps recognizing value. Please reconcile your statement that "Topps doesn't care [about applying value]" with the care that they express to me when they place a value on this unmade card. You say they don't care about value, yet Topps represents value. Who is wrong, you or Topps?

 

[hive17]

You still think you understand the stated redemption policy without understanding the company policy. What's it like to be so confused and angry all the time?

You've never even dealt with Topps issuing you a replacement for a redemption, so you can't possibly have any basis for an argument; I've been humoring you this whole time, but you've got no frame of reference and are basically making stuff up to win an argument you lost long ago. I have facts and direct knowledge and experience; you have your own world that you live in, where the facts aren't needed.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Please tell me what my very real transaction with the Topps customer service representative says about Topps recognizing value. Please reconcile your statement that "Topps doesn't care [about applying value]" with the care that they express to me when they place a value on this unmade card. You say they don't care about value, yet Topps represents value. Who is wrong, you or Topps?

Speaking about obtuse...

Before addressing these, kindly go back and explain how an imaginary card could be part of a set as you said it is above.

One shouldn't complain about policy without understanding it first. Perhaps this is why you seem to enjoy imaginary cards.

 

[phillyfan0417]

Speaking about obtuse...

Before addressing these, kindly go back and explain how an imaginary card could be part of a set as you said it is above.

One shouldn't complain about policy without understanding it first. Perhaps this is why you seem to enjoy imaginary cards.

what first hand experience do you have with the Topps redemption process. How many have you personally redeemed? How many time s have you asked for a replacement?

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

You've never even dealt with Topps issuing you a replacement for a redemption, so you can't possibly have any basis for an argument; I've been humoring you this whole time, but you've got no frame of reference and are basically making stuff up to win an argument you lost long ago. I have facts and direct knowledge and experience; you have your own world that you live in, where the facts aren't needed.

Sure I have, many times. I just don't expect anything of 'value' like you do because I understand the policy. Your expecting value is what gets you so heated over all this.

I already said I was stringing you along, no need to pretend otherwise... although you do seem to like imaginary things.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

what first hand experience do you have with the Topps redemption process. How many have you personally redeemed? How many time s have you asked for a replacement?

Surely as much as people here except I don't buy them on eBay.

You expect to get something of value in return, I don't really care.

 

[hive17]

Speaking about obtuse...

Before addressing these, kindly go back and explain how an imaginary card could be part of a set as you said it is above.

One shouldn't complain about policy without understanding it first. Perhaps this is why you seem to enjoy imaginary cards.

1. Checklist 2. Promotional materials 3. Loading the redemption card into their computer database 4. It has a value based on the transient properties that Topps themselves place on it when they issue a replacement based on secondary market valuation.

Now, answer my question, if you can.