Well, well, well...looks who's back...

[G $MONEY$]

Hmmm... i had no idea LJbiggestFan was talked about selling counterfeits in the past, i thought he was a respected individual in the hobby. He posts regularly on another sports card message board and it seems like he has a great rep on that board. :?

 

[HawaiianLance]

I don't appreciate even the idea that I'm accused of bearing false witness.

75 minutes, 4 paper plates, 3 water baths/changes, 1 plastic spoon:

And I really don't appreciate destroying one of my cards - just to prove a point.

This thing, since it's plastic, was dry and ready-to-go after a minute with a paper towel.

Edited: That pictured big basketball sheet? Is a big basketball bull-sheet.

 

[AndruwHRJones]

He got me for a couple of those in the past, I was informed too late.

It happens to a lot of player collectors. Check out this fake I got conned into purchasing:

These were supposedly the Fanfest Playing Cards used at '97 Fanfest (Cleveland). Even though I already owned a genuine example - the snake oil guy threw such a good pitch - forty bucks was out of my pocket & long gone before I knew I had been rooked.

How can you tell your Fanfest playing card is fake? I thought about buying an Andruw a while back and decided against it. It will be helpful to know how to spot a fake.

 

[HawaiianLance]

How can you tell your Fanfest playing card is fake? I thought about buying an Andruw a while back and decided against it. It will be helpful to know how to spot a fake.

<nodding>

Let me preface this - If I sound tired or pissed - it's not you.

Stress. <g>

Funny thing - Magic and I had a long discussion about this very thing last week or so.

I'll try to be brief.

The 1997 Fanfest hired Bryan Berg, a world-reknown & world record holder in building things with playing cards. (http://www.cardstacker.com/index2.html)

The important to remember is that he utilizes playing cards. If you've ever held them you know what I mean when I say - they're not just made of paper. They've got this 'buffered coat', right? In fact, the Bicycle Co. has a trademark patent on their process. Playing cards are designed to be handled for a long time without breaking down, bending, etc. They're very strong.

Okay - also remember three more things:

Pinnacle Brands had a relationship with The United States Card Corp (the makers of Bicycle, Hoyle, etc) - because not everyone can produce a playing card Pinnacle tasked them to create their special one-time use cards. (http://www.usplayingcard.com/)

Secondly, playing cards are very strong. That's why Bryan uses them for his amazing creations. They're extremely strong.

Lastly, remember when US Playing Card Corp were hired to produce the product - Pinnacle didn't have their artwork ready. So they provide them the previous year's design - 1996's Fanfest (Philadelphia).

Here's an actual Fanfest Playing Card:

NOW...

The fakes are made from cheap porous paper.
Inkjet inks are not printed inks.
They have no coating, buffered or otherwise.
They utilize the (technically) correct '97 Fanfest artwork.
The fakes are made from cheap paper... I know, I said that. <g> But it's important. They can't be used as 'playing cards' because they're weak. And if they're weak they couldn't & wouldn't have been used by Bryan Berg.

They're fake.

 

[Lancemountain]

Hey Lance,

Nothing to add other than Hey how are ya, and another thanks for what ya did months ago


ohhh edit:

Any thoughts on these?

http://cgi.ebay.com/DEREK-LOWE-2008-TOP ... .m14.l1262

 

[AndruwHRJones]

How can you tell your Fanfest playing card is fake? I thought about buying an Andruw a while back and decided against it. It will be helpful to know how to spot a fake.

<nodding>

Let me preface this - If I sound tired or pissed - it's not you.

Stress. <g>

Funny thing - Magic and I had a long discussion about this very thing last week or so.

I'll try to be brief.

The 1997 Fanfest hired Bryan Berg, a world-reknown & world record holder in building things with playing cards. (http://www.cardstacker.com/index2.html)

The important to remember is that he utilizes playing cards. If you've ever held them you know what I mean when I say - they're not just made of paper. They've got this 'buffered coat', right? In fact, the Bicycle Co. has a trademark patent on their process. Playing cards are designed to be handled for a long time without breaking down, bending, etc. They're very strong.

Okay - also remember three more things:

Pinnacle Brands had a relationship with The United States Card Corp (the makers of Bicycle, Hoyle, etc) - because not everyone can produce a playing card Pinnacle tasked them to create their special one-time use cards. (http://www.usplayingcard.com/)

Secondly, playing cards are very strong. That's why Bryan uses them for his amazing creations. They're extremely strong.

Lastly, remember when US Playing Card Corp were hired to produce the product - Pinnacle didn't have their artwork ready. So they provide them the previous year's design - 1996's Fanfest (Philadelphia).

Here's an actual Fanfest Playing Card:

NOW...

The fakes are made from cheap porous paper.
Inkjet inks are not printed inks.
They have no coating, buffered or otherwise.
They utilize the (technically) correct '97 Fanfest artwork.
The fakes are made from cheap paper... I know, I said that. <g> But it's important. They can't be used as 'playing cards' because they're weak. And if they're weak they couldn't & wouldn't have been used by Bryan Berg.

They're fake.

Thanks for the information, appreciated!!

 

[HawaiianLance]

Hey Lance,

Nothing to add other than Hey how are ya, and another thanks for what ya did months ago


ohhh edit:

Any thoughts on these?

Hey Lance!

<laugh> I like saying that. <g>

Dunno about those. Typically, the National does do special stamps, so.... <shrug>

I would ask the guys who went - Gilmore & Co. I suspect they could give you a better answer.

BTW, it's ... funny you should write to me....

I've been working a project that is specifically designed just for you.

No joke. It's going to be a surprise.

TTYthen.

Lance ;-D

 

[Lancemountain]

Dude! What is it? Or at least a hint?


Leaving someone hanging like that is :twisted:

haha

 

[plainwhitejerseys]

I don't see why you're all whining about this. If what he's selling aren't "proofs", who cares? If the buyer is happy with what they receive, then there's no problem. There's always someone who is going to think someone else is getting ripped off in a deal. There are plenty of people out there who would think it is ridiculous to charge $100 for a cardboard picture of some dude.

Some of you need to take a deep breath and relax. If you don't like these, don't buy them. Simple as that.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

I don't see why you're all whining about this. If what he's selling aren't "proofs", who cares? If the buyer is happy with what they receive, then there's no problem. There's always someone who is going to think someone else is getting ripped off in a deal. There are plenty of people out there who would think it is ridiculous to charge $100 for a cardboard picture of some dude.

Some of you need to take a deep breath and relax. If you don't like these, don't buy them. Simple as that.

Interesting that someone like you would post something like this.

Maybe you should call Pinnacle and see if they issued cards like this.

 

[A_Pharis]

I don't see why you're all whining about this. If what he's selling aren't "proofs", who cares? If the buyer is happy with what they receive, then there's no problem. There's always someone who is going to think someone else is getting ripped off in a deal. There are plenty of people out there who would think it is ridiculous to charge $100 for a cardboard picture of some dude.

Some of you need to take a deep breath and relax. If you don't like these, don't buy them. Simple as that.

Interesting that someone like you would post something like this.

Maybe you should call Pinnacle and see if they issued cards like this.

PWJ trolling? Naaaahhhhhh!

 

[MartinFFcollector]

Hmmm... i had no idea LJbiggestFan was talked about selling counterfeits in the past, i thought he was a respected individual in the hobby. He posts regularly on another sports card message board and it seems like he has a great rep on that board. :?

Yeah, IIRC they deemed him able to stay because they feel he does have an inside connect, based on his numerous uncut sheets. So they ignorantly assume the Chrome Proofs could be real as well.

 

[sportscardtheory]

I don't see why you're all whining about this. If what he's selling aren't "proofs", who cares? If the buyer is happy with what they receive, then there's no problem. There's always someone who is going to think someone else is getting ripped off in a deal. There are plenty of people out there who would think it is ridiculous to charge $100 for a cardboard picture of some dude.

Some of you need to take a deep breath and relax. If you don't like these, don't buy them. Simple as that.

You have to be kidding.

 

[MartinFFcollector]

I don't see why you're all whining about this. If what he's selling aren't "proofs", who cares? If the buyer is happy with what they receive, then there's no problem. There's always someone who is going to think someone else is getting ripped off in a deal. There are plenty of people out there who would think it is ridiculous to charge $100 for a cardboard picture of some dude.

Some of you need to take a deep breath and relax. If you don't like these, don't buy them. Simple as that.

Who cares? I for one. And the others who have expressed concern on this thread. You dont care? Move along.

Whining? Maybe so. I prefer were educating while complaining about someone who is bad for the hobby by selling fraudulent product. Yes, the buyer is happy. But when they learn, will they be? No. Even if they never learn is it ok? It's only bad if they get caught?

I agree some feel $100 for a picture of a man on cardboard is crazy. My wife being one of those. That's not the point. Point is he is selling counterfeit cards and were trying to educate others and ultimately would love to help put a dent in the dark side of the hobby.

You dont care? Doesn't affect you so it's not your problem? Fine. Go do what you do and let us do what we do.

 

[jeff550]

[quote="Jeff N.":al731w3o]

I don't see why you're all whining about this. If what he's selling aren't "proofs", who cares? If the buyer is happy with what they receive, then there's no problem. There's always someone who is going to think someone else is getting ripped off in a deal. There are plenty of people out there who would think it is ridiculous to charge $100 for a cardboard picture of some dude.

Some of you need to take a deep breath and relax. If you don't like these, don't buy them. Simple as that.

Interesting that someone like you would post something like this.

Maybe you should call Pinnacle and see if they issued cards like this.

PWJ trolling? Naaaahhhhhh![/quote:al731w3o]
[sarcasum]Yah he would never troll. but using wha he said I have some patch cards to sell him.

 

[MartinFFcollector]

LJsbiggestfan- You have access to numerous sheets ? You have a Chrome back sheet? You know, the ones destroyed from soaking? The other half of the card. Have a pic of one kinda folded over to show the blank side and the back?

You have also sold "printers proofs" which were nothing more than a normal card with the printers color bars showing or the edge of the sheet showing. That is not a proof and you know it.

 

[plainwhitejerseys]

I don't see why you're all whining about this. If what he's selling aren't "proofs", who cares? If the buyer is happy with what they receive, then there's no problem. There's always someone who is going to think someone else is getting ripped off in a deal. There are plenty of people out there who would think it is ridiculous to charge $100 for a cardboard picture of some dude.

Some of you need to take a deep breath and relax. If you don't like these, don't buy them. Simple as that.

Who cares? I for one. And the others who have expressed concern on this thread. You dont care? Move along.

Whining? Maybe so. I prefer were educating while complaining about someone who is bad for the hobby by selling fraudulent product. Yes, the buyer is happy. But when they learn, will they be? No. Even if they never learn is it ok? It's only bad if they get caught?

I agree some feel $100 for a picture of a man on cardboard is crazy. My wife being one of those. That's not the point. Point is he is selling counterfeit cards and were trying to educate others and ultimately would love to help put a dent in the dark side of the hobby.

You dont care? Doesn't affect you so it's not your problem? Fine. Go do what you do and let us do what we do.

Why should I? You're not doing that. You're sitting here whining and crying about a couple of sellers selling things that you think are fraudulent. You're getting your ******* in a *** over something that doesn't affect you. Oh, but I'm a troll for telling you to relax and take a deep breath.

You know, for a HOBBY, something that is supposed to make people ENJOY THEMSELVES, you sure do spend a whole lot of time whining and crying, bitching and complaining about it. Just effing ENJOY IT or find a new hobby.

There's ALWAYS going to be someone operating in a morally grey area of ANY hobby. ALWAYS. And there's NOTHING you can do about it. It's ALWAYS going to go on.

Ooh, fake autographs are a blight on the hobby. Congress has the FBI crack down on fake autographed memorabilia. Major network news programs do investigative reports and sting operations. What's the outcome? They still estimate that the majority of autographed memorabilia on eBay is fake.

Get a life already. There's nothing you can do about it. All the whining and crying and carrying and false accusations in the world aren't going to get eBay to do anything about it. These sellers make eBay a whole hell of a lot more money than you do. All the bellyaching in the world isn't going to change that. They've got a lot more important things to worry about than the fact that a couple people have an issue with a product that a couple sellers are selling. They've got people ripping off others for laptops and flat screen TVs left and right. They don't care about some guy selling a couple $2 baseball cards that he soaked in water.

I bought a couple of these "proofs". I spent about $10 total. When I first heard how it was done, I shrugged my shoulders and laughed that someone had stumbled across a pretty clever way to get money out of their baseball cards. Unethical? Yeah, but there are more important things in the world to worry about.

Enjoy the hobby or what's the point?

 

[braden]

I don't see why you're all whining about this. If what he's selling aren't "proofs", who cares? If the buyer is happy with what they receive, then there's no problem. There's always someone who is going to think someone else is getting ripped off in a deal. There are plenty of people out there who would think it is ridiculous to charge $100 for a cardboard picture of some dude.

Some of you need to take a deep breath and relax. If you don't like these, don't buy them. Simple as that.

Who cares? I for one. And the others who have expressed concern on this thread. You dont care? Move along.

Whining? Maybe so. I prefer were educating while complaining about someone who is bad for the hobby by selling fraudulent product. Yes, the buyer is happy. But when they learn, will they be? No. Even if they never learn is it ok? It's only bad if they get caught?

I agree some feel $100 for a picture of a man on cardboard is crazy. My wife being one of those. That's not the point. Point is he is selling counterfeit cards and were trying to educate others and ultimately would love to help put a dent in the dark side of the hobby.

You dont care? Doesn't affect you so it's not your problem? Fine. Go do what you do and let us do what we do.

Why should I? You're not doing that. You're sitting here whining and crying about a couple of sellers selling things that you think are fraudulent. You're getting your ******* in a *** over something that doesn't affect you. Oh, but I'm a troll for telling you to relax and take a deep breath.

You know, for a HOBBY, something that is supposed to make people ENJOY THEMSELVES, you sure do spend a whole lot of time whining and crying, bitching and complaining about it. Just effing ENJOY IT or find a new hobby.

There's ALWAYS going to be someone operating in a morally grey area of ANY hobby. ALWAYS. And there's NOTHING you can do about it. It's ALWAYS going to go on.

Ooh, fake autographs are a blight on the hobby. Congress has the FBI crack down on fake autographed memorabilia. Major network news programs do investigative reports and sting operations. What's the outcome? They still estimate that the majority of autographed memorabilia on eBay is fake.

Get a life already. There's nothing you can do about it. All the whining and crying and carrying and false accusations in the world aren't going to get eBay to do anything about it. These sellers make eBay a whole hell of a lot more money than you do. All the bellyaching in the world isn't going to change that. They've got a lot more important things to worry about than the fact that a couple people have an issue with a product that a couple sellers are selling. They've got people ripping off others for laptops and flat screen TVs left and right. They don't care about some guy selling a couple $2 baseball cards that he soaked in water.

I bought a couple of these "proofs". I spent about $10 total. When I first heard how it was done, I shrugged my shoulders and laughed that someone had stumbled across a pretty clever way to get money out of their baseball cards. Unethical? Yeah, but there are more important things in the world to worry about.

Enjoy the hobby or what's the point?

Weren't you the one stomping your feet and trying to unite bloggers to unearth whether or not Donruss repackaged EEE without GU for retail? Isn't it just a hobby? Shouldn't you "just effing enjoy it or find a new hobby"?

 

[Jack Straw]

I don't see why you're all whining about this. If what he's selling aren't "proofs", who cares? If the buyer is happy with what they receive, then there's no problem. There's always someone who is going to think someone else is getting ripped off in a deal. There are plenty of people out there who would think it is ridiculous to charge $100 for a cardboard picture of some dude.

Some of you need to take a deep breath and relax. If you don't like these, don't buy them. Simple as that.

Who cares? I for one. And the others who have expressed concern on this thread. You dont care? Move along.

Whining? Maybe so. I prefer were educating while complaining about someone who is bad for the hobby by selling fraudulent product. Yes, the buyer is happy. But when they learn, will they be? No. Even if they never learn is it ok? It's only bad if they get caught?

I agree some feel $100 for a picture of a man on cardboard is crazy. My wife being one of those. That's not the point. Point is he is selling counterfeit cards and were trying to educate others and ultimately would love to help put a dent in the dark side of the hobby.

You dont care? Doesn't affect you so it's not your problem? Fine. Go do what you do and let us do what we do.

Why should I? You're not doing that. You're sitting here whining and crying about a couple of sellers selling things that you think are fraudulent. You're getting your ******* in a *** over something that doesn't affect you. Oh, but I'm a troll for telling you to relax and take a deep breath.

You know, for a HOBBY, something that is supposed to make people ENJOY THEMSELVES, you sure do spend a whole lot of time whining and crying, bitching and complaining about it. Just effing ENJOY IT or find a new hobby.

There's ALWAYS going to be someone operating in a morally grey area of ANY hobby. ALWAYS. And there's NOTHING you can do about it. It's ALWAYS going to go on.

Ooh, fake autographs are a blight on the hobby. Congress has the FBI crack down on fake autographed memorabilia. Major network news programs do investigative reports and sting operations. What's the outcome? They still estimate that the majority of autographed memorabilia on eBay is fake.

Get a life already. There's nothing you can do about it. All the whining and crying and carrying and false accusations in the world aren't going to get eBay to do anything about it. These sellers make eBay a whole hell of a lot more money than you do. All the bellyaching in the world isn't going to change that. They've got a lot more important things to worry about than the fact that a couple people have an issue with a product that a couple sellers are selling. They've got people ripping off others for laptops and flat screen TVs left and right. They don't care about some guy selling a couple $2 baseball cards that he soaked in water.

I bought a couple of these "proofs". I spent about $10 total. When I first heard how it was done, I shrugged my shoulders and laughed that someone had stumbled across a pretty clever way to get money out of their baseball cards. Unethical? Yeah, but there are more important things in the world to worry about.

Enjoy the hobby or what's the point?

So at what dollar amount does it become a problem for you?

 

[gracecollector]

I don't see why you're all whining about this. If what he's selling aren't "proofs", who cares? If the buyer is happy with what they receive, then there's no problem. There's always someone who is going to think someone else is getting ripped off in a deal. There are plenty of people out there who would think it is ridiculous to charge $100 for a cardboard picture of some dude.

Some of you need to take a deep breath and relax. If you don't like these, don't buy them. Simple as that.

Who cares? I for one. And the others who have expressed concern on this thread. You dont care? Move along.

Whining? Maybe so. I prefer were educating while complaining about someone who is bad for the hobby by selling fraudulent product. Yes, the buyer is happy. But when they learn, will they be? No. Even if they never learn is it ok? It's only bad if they get caught?

I agree some feel $100 for a picture of a man on cardboard is crazy. My wife being one of those. That's not the point. Point is he is selling counterfeit cards and were trying to educate others and ultimately would love to help put a dent in the dark side of the hobby.

You dont care? Doesn't affect you so it's not your problem? Fine. Go do what you do and let us do what we do.

Why should I? You're not doing that. You're sitting here whining and crying about a couple of sellers selling things that you think are fraudulent. You're getting your ******* in a *** over something that doesn't affect you. Oh, but I'm a troll for telling you to relax and take a deep breath.

You know, for a HOBBY, something that is supposed to make people ENJOY THEMSELVES, you sure do spend a whole lot of time whining and crying, bitching and complaining about it. Just effing ENJOY IT or find a new hobby.

There's ALWAYS going to be someone operating in a morally grey area of ANY hobby. ALWAYS. And there's NOTHING you can do about it. It's ALWAYS going to go on.

Ooh, fake autographs are a blight on the hobby. Congress has the FBI crack down on fake autographed memorabilia. Major network news programs do investigative reports and sting operations. What's the outcome? They still estimate that the majority of autographed memorabilia on eBay is fake.

Get a life already. There's nothing you can do about it. All the whining and crying and carrying and false accusations in the world aren't going to get eBay to do anything about it. These sellers make eBay a whole hell of a lot more money than you do. All the bellyaching in the world isn't going to change that. They've got a lot more important things to worry about than the fact that a couple people have an issue with a product that a couple sellers are selling. They've got people ripping off others for laptops and flat screen TVs left and right. They don't care about some guy selling a couple $2 baseball cards that he soaked in water.

I bought a couple of these "proofs". I spent about $10 total. When I first heard how it was done, I shrugged my shoulders and laughed that someone had stumbled across a pretty clever way to get money out of their baseball cards. Unethical? Yeah, but there are more important things in the world to worry about.

Enjoy the hobby or what's the point?

Man, this just makes me sad. Someone so jaded that they don't think they should even try to make the hobby a better place. Some things are just wrong, and deliberately deceiving collectors with a product that was altered and then marketed as something produced by the manufacturer that was not is just wrong, and we as ethical collectors should take a stand against it. We CAN do something and we are. Not everybody is in this hobby to make a buck. I don't begrudge anyone from making a profit, but to do so fraudulantly is shameful.

It is only when significant numbers do try to change something that change occurs. PWJ, asking us to remain silent in the face of fraud is just pitiful. You need to examine your conscious, reevaluate your priorities, and - forget about us "getting a life" - but change yours. Because it ain't pretty.