What exactly do you consider "market value?"

[JVC]

I've seen plenty of threads bashing the BIN/BO format but I'm curious to hear how people define "market value." While regular auctions are a good gauge for items that are easy to find, wouldn't "true" market value be what the person who is willing to pay the most for any particular card willing to pay? Auctions, especially for rare cards, only gauge what the people who happen to see the card or be searching for it during that given week, are willing to pay, whereas if it was put up for a BIN/BO, it gives more people the opportunity to see it and therefore gives a better chance for that person who wants the card the most (and by this i mean is willing to pay the most for it) to see it and buy it. What do you guys think "true market value" is?

 

[mredsox89]

current ebay auction value is as close to a true market value as we can find.

 

[JVC]

current ebay auction value is as close to a true market value as we can find.

That may be true for cards that are easy to find but what about for rare cards such as 1/1's or 1/5s? We all know Wossa is willing to pay quite a bit more than most people out there for the cards he wants. Is market value 1 bid higher than the next person is willing to pay or as high as he is willing to offer?

 

[hofautos]

The "average" of what a similar item is likely to sell for currently. Of course some items are more difficult to gauge as to what a "similar" item is.

 

[mredsox89]

current ebay auction value is as close to a true market value as we can find.

That may be true for cards that are easy to find but what about for rare cards such as 1/1's or 1/5s? We all know Wossa is willing to pay quite a bit more than most people out there for the cards he wants. Is market value 1 bid higher than the next person is willing to pay or as high as he is willing to offer?

For 1/1, the only way to have a "true" market value is to have an auction. One think i think ebay should have is 30 day auctions. If a buyer doesn't see something over a 30 day period, you cannot count their bid/offer in the true market value

 

[bouwob]

If im buying, 80% - average of the last few that have ended on ebay.

If im selling, 80% + average of the last few that have ended on ebay.

if im not involved an average of the last few that have ended on ebay.

 

[JVC]

current ebay auction value is as close to a true market value as we can find.

That may be true for cards that are easy to find but what about for rare cards such as 1/1's or 1/5s? We all know Wossa is willing to pay quite a bit more than most people out there for the cards he wants. Is market value 1 bid higher than the next person is willing to pay or as high as he is willing to offer?

For 1/1, the only way to have a "true" market value is to have an auction. One think i think ebay should have is 30 day auctions. If a buyer doesn't see something over a 30 day period, you cannot count their bid/offer in the true market value

The definition of market value that you are using is 1 bid higher than the next high bidder. Why should a seller have to accept only just higher than the next person is willing to pay? In live auction house bidding or in silent auctions, buyers can submit offers that blow away the competition. Is that not true market value?

 

[All The Hype]

Market value by definition is how something sells in a competitive auction type setting... although this generally refers to a live auction where potential buyers are readily able to bid until the price has surpassed their own price that they would be willing to pay for the item.

The closest thing to market value we have in the card world is the average of recent ending prices of the same card.

A rarer card would still fall under the same definition. If the item were auctioned off in a setting where active and competitive bidders were bidding on the item, the ending price would be the market value for the card, even if one person is willing to pay more.

EBay is not an error-free market value finder, simply because the auctions are not live, so perhaps someone would be willing to bid more (therefore raising the price), but misses the auction, which leaves the price inaccurately low. But at the same time, eBay is really the closest thing we have to a market-value finding tool, so it is what we use.

 

[mredsox89]

no one is going to pay large amounts more than the next highest bid except for a select few (Wossa) who have no cap on their spending. If the person selling doesn't want to accept that as the value of their card/item, they shouldn't use an ebay auction, they should use a BIN/BO.

 

[Codasco07]

What the item would go for if it was listed with a .01 starting bid on ebay.

 

[JVC]

What the item would go for if it was listed with a .01 starting bid on ebay.

See, again, this only gauges what the people who happen to log on to ebay and see the item within the 7 days that the auction is running are willing to pay for it.

 

[mredsox89]

What the item would go for if it was listed with a .01 starting bid on ebay.

See, again, this only gauges what the people who happen to log on to ebay and see the item within the 7 days that the auction is running are willing to pay for it.

30 day auctions.

 

[JVC]

What the item would go for if it was listed with a .01 starting bid on ebay.

See, again, this only gauges what the people who happen to log on to ebay and see the item within the 7 days that the auction is running are willing to pay for it.

30 day auctions.

Would be an interesting idea but would probably only be viable for items that don't fluctuate in value too much. Prospect stuff can go from hot to ice cold in a matter of 2 weeks.

 

[rainmanesq]

There are several variables to consider-

Supply + demand- not just in how many of a card exist, but how often the card comes up
Belief in your pricing
Timing + flexibility- today’s matt laporta hof could be tomorrow’s toe nash
How quickly you churn your inventory
Where the card’s sold- a modern card sold on say ebay is probably a lot more likely to sell for a lot more $ + sell within a lot quicker time than say the same card listed on ______ (pick random 'ebay alternative' among the 25+ that exist). By the same token, a vintage card sold through say Mastro Auctions is probably a lot more likely to sell for a lot more $ than say the same card listed on ebay...though the price disparity's becoming less prevalent than it once was.
History
Acquisition cost- bob who paid say $10 for a hamels 02 bcdp xfractor + sold it for say $300 makes a heck of a lot more profit than jim who paid say 300 for the same card + sold it for say $350

So many people think of ‘market value’ in terms of ‘what buyers will pay’, but sometimes, ‘market value’ is what sellers are willing to let a card go for. Bob may have bought a card for $500 a month ago + list it for $300 today. Is the ‘market value’ $500, what Bob paid or is it $300, what Bob’s willing to sell it for today? As a dealer, I’ve been able to snag some great deals (below ebay ‘market value’) simply b/c the sellers have badly needed cash + they needed it NOW.

Another thing to consider- which many overlook- is how long it will take to sell a card (or case) if you price it at $X. Sure, a card may eventually hit $500 in say 2011, but in 2009, say you can sell it for $350. Is it really worth hanging onto it for 2 yrs for an extra $150? So many dealers phrase things like ‘oh yah, I tripled my $ on this card,’ but they fail to include the ‘holding time’ (which may have cost them some $ + which means their $ is tied up) in the ‘cost’ of the card/case. Also, many dealers get caught up in ‘paper profits’- reality is you’ve NOT made a dime until the card is SOLD.

 

[predatorkj]

Market value for me would be what a particular item is selling for on average.Ebay is sometimes a decent tool to use but the prices can be all over the board and then on top of that your not taking into account the people who don't use ebay.There are quite a few people who still don't use ebay.Thats a good thing to keep in mind.Plus a lot of people pay more for items in person it seems so then you have to question how accurate the ebay info really is.


For you to know accurate market value you have to take an average of sales.On things like 1/1's and stuff...unless its been sold more than a couple of times...you can really only go by the price it fetched the first time.But 1/1's and people like Wossa are pretty much unimportant in this conversation though because honestly...while we may be talking about a 1/1...he may be the only person willing to pay as much as he has for a card so you can't really say the market value on any item = what one person will pay for it if its the only one of its kind because the next guy may only pay a percentage of that and be nowhere close.I could win the lotto and start outbidding everybody on every bagwell card that surfaces but if I do...does that really mean that the price I am paying is market value?Not necessarily.

 

[predatorkj]

There are several variables to consider-

Supply + demand- not just in how many of a card exist, but how often the card comes up
Belief in your pricing
Timing + flexibility- today’s matt laporta hof could be tomorrow’s toe nash
How quickly you churn your inventory
Where the card’s sold
History
Acquisition cost- bob who paid say $10 for a hamels 02 bcdp xfractor + sold it for say $300 makes a heck of a lot more profit than jim who paid say 300 for the same card + sold it for say $350

So many people think of ‘market value’ in terms of ‘what buyers will pay’, but sometimes, ‘market value’ is what sellers are willing to let a card go for. Bob may have bought a card for $500 a month ago + list it for $300 today. Is the ‘market value’ $500, what Bob paid or is it $300, what Bob’s willing to sell it for today? As a dealer, I’ve been able to snag some great deals (below ebay ‘market value’) simply b/c the sellers have badly needed cash + they needed it NOW.

Another thing to consider- which many overlook- is how long it will take to sell a card (or case) if you price it at $X. Sure, a card may eventually hit $500 in say 2011, but in 2009, say you can sell it for $350. Is it really worth hanging onto it for 2 yrs for an extra $150? So many dealers phrase things like ‘oh yah, I tripled my $ on this card,’ but they fail to include the ‘holding time’ (which may have cost them some $ + which means their $ is tied up) in the ‘cost’ of the card/case. Also, many dealers get caught up in ‘paper profits’- reality is you’ve NOT made a dime until the card is SOLD.

Darn good points!